Originally posted by ghost
I think I found where most (if not all) of the mystery planes out at Groom Lake are coming from, Calafornia! I was looking through the ATS website,
and I found info on a place called, Antelope Valley.
Heh Heh dated a girl from antelope valley many many years ago. As mentioned in the ATS link there are numerous Test and Radar Cross Section facilities
there. Also, don't forget Palmdale and Helendale and Lancaster are all in Antelope Valley.
The RCS test areas are most noteable. Planes that are created have to be tested for RCS. These tests would have to take place at these facilities.
Note that all the major Black project companies have a test range.
Tejon RCS Facility - Northrop Grumman
The facility is located at the northwest end of the Antelope Valley, on the slopes of the Tehachapi Mountains, at the mouth of Little Oak Canyon. It
is 18 miles due west of the town of Rosamond.
A published account in 1985 stated that the range has the ability to test at frequencies from 2 GHz to 18 GHz
Gray Butte RCS Facility - McDonnell Douglas
McDonnell Douglas's Gray Butte RCS facility is located approximately 25 miles due east of Palmdale, on the Los Angeles-San Bernardino county line. It
is at the site of an old World War II auxiliary airfield and has utilized the old runways as its ranges. The site address is 25500 East Avenue R-8,
Palmdale. Literature put out by McDonnell Douglas describes three different independent ground plane ranges, varying in length from 1260' to 3750'.
They can test over a continuous frequency range of 145 MHz to 18 GHz, and also spot frequencies of 24 and 35 GHz.
Junction Ranch RCS Range at China Lake
It is located in an isolated valley on the west side of the Argus Mountain range, about 2 miles southwest of Maturango Peak in the far northeastern
portion of the China Lake Naval Weapons Center. Junction Ranch can perform extremely rapid measurements in UHF, L, S, C, X, Ku and Ka frequency
bands. The facility also has the capability for bistatic RCS measurement. Because of the very low levels of RF interference at the location, HF
capability (40-60 MHz) has recently been added.
Helendale Avionics Facility - Lockheed Martin
This facility is located on approximately 9 square miles (over 5,700 acres) of land, about 5 miles north of Helendale and just west of the Mojave
River. It has a site address of 17452 Wheeler Road, Helendale CA 92342
The facility has the capability to test the complete frequency range from 120 MHz to 18 GHz, and a spot frequency of 35 GHz with four different signal
polarizations This is the facility alot of UFO types claim has huge underground capacities due to the pylon that can raise up from the ground.
Just a little FYI The Skunk Works are in Palmdale at Plant 42
Edwards AFB test center is also there
Lockheed and Edwards are the biggest employers in the area.
Also is the Blackbird park. Its the only place you can see an A-12 and SR-71 Side by side
[edit on 23-7-2004 by FredT]
[edit on 24-7-2004 by FredT]
[edit on 24-7-2004 by FredT]
posted on 23-7-2004 at 08:47 Post Number: 682901 (post id: 703595)
quote: Originally posted by ghost
Here's more proof that the TR-3 exists and is being used:
We know and can prove that the NSA uses secret spy planes. I'm guessing the patent was supposed to be secret, but someone screwed up. This ties in
with my earlier find about the TR-3. We've got one, let's go find some more.
Tim, a couple of areas to look into: Drones . DarkStar (Tier III-) would also be a good ELINT platform. There also was a Tier III+, but I havent found
tons on it. AWST after GWII printed an article about the AF using a new secret drone over Iraq. In one of my Reference books "Lockheed Stealth" by
Bill Sweetman, it has a drawing of a ultra long range stealth Drone called DistantStar. It makes sence that NSA would and could use these platforms to
gather signals etc. The NSA's budget is pretty black and could hide a program or two in it. From the info Ive looked at the TR3-a leans towards a
recce/targeting role which could jive in the direction you are headed.
In a far as patents are concerned, they are always avalible to the public. If you know were to work. Like the Nuclear powered tunnel boring machine
that has a pattent. Secret no doubt, but you can't hide it in the patent office...
posted on 23-7-2004 at 08:57 Post Number: 682920 (post id: 703614)
More Area 51 Minutia
Tracked down the term Watertown Strip: Turns out that Allen Dulles's home town in New york was "watertown" Coincidence? I think Not!
A lead mine was also in the mountains near groom lake that belonged to the Sheahan familiy. They would be evacuated when tests went off. Some were so
close that cattle and wild horses would be found dead later with beta burns. His wife would evetually die of cancer. I am trying to see if the mines
still have claims on them from the state of nevada. You never know what you might be able to buy.
People at the Ranch wore dosimeters to gague radiation exposure. In 1955 alone there were no less than 14 nuclear detonation at the NTS Area 51 had to
be evacuated for each test. One test (an airburst) cause radiation levels to be measure as high as 80-90 Mrems. .02-.04 is normal. Yikes.
Intersting to note, I uncovered Operation Plumbob (1957), which was designed to test if an accident might cause a bomb to go critical. It spread
plutonium over a 900 acres site called Area 13. It was not cleaned up untill 1981. Kind of like a dirty bomb eh?
posted on 23-7-2004 at 20:35 Post Number: 684069 (post id: 704763)
TR-3A and NSA at Groom lake
Originally posted by FredT
Originally posted by ghost
Northrop even went as far as patenting this design as D365-545
Known and Roumored Black Projects
Im wondering if Northrop was involved. Lockheed was also competed in the Stealth Bomber comp. Ben Rich in his book "Skunk Works" describes the
Lockheed entry as a smaller all wing version than the Northrop design. It has a lower payload but was much more stealthy that the Northrop design.
Most description of the Black Manta describe this type of triangular all wing design. It seems plausable that if the NSA was using the TR3-A for
elint, sigint etc. They would not be able to hide the massive budget dent that a from scratch design would cost. Whereas if the Skunk Works had
already been payed to make a prototype, it could easily be adapted and production costs hidden into the budget.
The question is why would the NSA need a plane for this when in the past they have turfed this operation to the AF and Navy.
If the NSA is involved with Groom lake, it would have to be for aircraft/drone work only. All the sattelite shots I have seen of teh base do not show
any of the antenna farms that you would expect .
posted on 24-7-2004 at 18:56 Post Number: 685699 (post id: 706393)
CIA and Air Force
Doing a little digging trying to pin down the NSA involvment at Groom, but I managed to dig up this recently declassified memo. The AF was never happy
about the CIA running its own air force. Apparently they tried to get the entire OXCART program trans. to them. (A-12, D-21 etc. It makes for
interesting reading and shows things may not have always been chummy at the Ranch... Also, the justification of future black systems that would no
doubt be tested at Groom
www.gwu.edu...
The ongoing debates between the CIA and AF. the 2nd like ir really interesting as the CIA explains why the A-12 is surperior to the SR-71 and gets
into figures for altitude and speed etc.
www.gwu.edu...
www.gwu.edu...
Lastly, this 1986 memo that is heavly blanked out asseses the threats that current and future "airbreathing" Recce platforms face from the Soviets.
It does not mention a replacement, but this may be a justification for the development of the Aurora etc.
www.gwu.edu...
posted on 24-7-2004 at 20:25 Post Number: 685801 (post id: 706495)
The CIA memo that started Aquatone and Ult. Area 51
This is the actual CIA memo that recomends the production of the CIA's U2 and ultimetly lead to the founding of Area 51 for testing. Not sure it
helps but is intersting nonetheless.
www.gwu.edu...
posted on 24-7-2004 at 22:20 Post Number: 685862 (post id: 706556)
Followup on Drones At Area 51
I found some evidence that the CIA uses other areas in the Antelope Valley for some drone testing. Note: none of these are "black"
quote:
Another interesting place is the CIA's El Mirage Flight Test Facility, used for testing their Gnat-750 and Predator UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles,
i.e., reconnaissance drones.) These UAVs resemble large model airplanes. The El Mirage facility is operated by the manufacturer of the UAVs, General
Atomics Corp. It has a 3700 foot (1138 meters) long runway in DMA aeronautical chart JOG NI 11-5. To get there, exit Highway 14 at Avenue P in
Palmdale, and go east. You will go past Air Force Plant 42 (Lockheed's Skunk Works occupies the big hangar at the western part of Plant 42) and the
Blackbird (SR-71) Museum
posted on 24-7-2004 at 22:50 Post Number: 685874 (post id: 706568)
THE EPA and Groom lake and the former employee lawsuits
quote:
Federal agencies are also subject to the requirements of federal pollution control laws. such as the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act, and the
Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA). EPA has a mandate to oversee the enforcement of the environmental laws at federal facilities, including
those that conduct highly classified research operations.
In this regard, an ongoing lawsuit by former employees at an Air Force facility near Groom Lake, Nevada, alleged violations of RCRA, including EPA's
failure to conduct a RCR inspection there. EPA has affirmed that EPA field inspectors conducted an inspection of the location pursuant to RCRA from
December 1994 to March 1995. In August 1995, the U.S. District Court for the District of Nevada ruled that the plaintiffs' objectives in bringing the
suit had been accomplished, in that EPA had performed its duties under RCRA to inspect and inventory the site. (3)
In May 1995, EPA and the Air Force affirmed by a memorandum of agreement that EPA w ill continue to have access at the Groom Lake facility for
purposes of administering the environmental laws and that the Air Force is committed to complying with RCRA at the location. The details of the issues
resulting in the agreement are classified. According to the director of EPA's Office of Federal Facilities Enforcement, EPA is fulfilling its
oversight responsibility at the facility. However, he said he was uncertain of the extent to which other such highly classified federal facilities--
or areas within facilities-- may exist and whether their research operations are in environmental compliance.
- In September 1995, President Clinton exempted the Air Force's classified facility near Groom Lake, Nevada from the public disclosure provisions of
RCRA, determining that the exemption was in the paramount interest of the United States.
[edit on 13-8-2004 by ADVISOR]
