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Originally posted by IAMIAM
Jesus did not say the Laws of Moses stay. He fulfilled them.
Fulfill - to bring to an end; finish or complete.
He did not destroy them, but rather made them stricter.
pleroo
play-ro'-o Verb
Definition
1. to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
1. to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
1. I abound, I am liberally supplied
2. to render full, i.e. to complete
1. to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2. to consummate: a number
1. to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by halfoldman
So? It also advocates stoning adulterers to death as well as unruly children.
I get so sick of the selective reading of the Bible.
www.openbible.info...
Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
www.answering-christianity.com...
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
edit on 21-4-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)
The pericope is not found in its canonical place in any of the earliest surviving Greek Gospel manuscripts; neither in the two 3rd century papyrus witnesses to John - P66 and P75; nor in the 4th century Codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, although all four of these manuscripts may acknowledge the existence of the passage via diacritical marks at the spot. The first surviving Greek manuscript to contain the pericope is the Latin/Greek diglot Codex Bezae of the late 4th or early 5th century. It is also the earliest surviving Latin manuscript to contain it; 17 of the 23 Old Latin manuscripts of John 7-8 contain at least part of the Pericope. Papias (circa AD 125) refers to a story of Jesus and a woman "accused of many sins" as being found in the Gospel of the Hebrews, which may well refer to this passage; there is a very certain quotation of the pericope adulterae in the 3rd Century Syriac Didascalia Apostolorum; though without indicating John's Gospel.
OK, gentiles were excused from circumcision and diet laws.
(All based on Peter's trance in Acts - Jesus never said this.)
Let us also remember that "Jew" was not a word used at that time.
The only clear change was that the parameters of adultery and divorce were narrowed
Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by FreedomNow
Jesus also commanded people not to judge, and that doesnt seem to stop many Christians from judging homosexuals, does it?
Selective application. And, if you want to get downright technical about it, that wonderful story of Jesus saving the adultress from stoning doesnt appear in any of the earliest copies of the scriptures. It may be that it was omitted for political reasons, and later added back in, or it may be it is just an addition that has nothing to do with the truth of what Jesus actually did.
en.wikipedia.org...
The pericope is not found in its canonical place in any of the earliest surviving Greek Gospel manuscripts; neither in the two 3rd century papyrus witnesses to John - P66 and P75; nor in the 4th century Codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, although all four of these manuscripts may acknowledge the existence of the passage via diacritical marks at the spot. The first surviving Greek manuscript to contain the pericope is the Latin/Greek diglot Codex Bezae of the late 4th or early 5th century. It is also the earliest surviving Latin manuscript to contain it; 17 of the 23 Old Latin manuscripts of John 7-8 contain at least part of the Pericope. Papias (circa AD 125) refers to a story of Jesus and a woman "accused of many sins" as being found in the Gospel of the Hebrews, which may well refer to this passage; there is a very certain quotation of the pericope adulterae in the 3rd Century Syriac Didascalia Apostolorum; though without indicating John's Gospel.
And, even if you want to use this to justify not stoning adulterers, can we still stone unruly children? Lord knows there have been some times in restaurants I was tempted...............edit on 21-4-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by FreedomNow
Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by FreedomNow
Jesus also commanded people not to judge, and that doesnt seem to stop many Christians from judging homosexuals, does it?
Selective application. And, if you want to get downright technical about it, that wonderful story of Jesus saving the adultress from stoning doesnt appear in any of the earliest copies of the scriptures. It may be that it was omitted for political reasons, and later added back in, or it may be it is just an addition that has nothing to do with the truth of what Jesus actually did.
en.wikipedia.org...
The pericope is not found in its canonical place in any of the earliest surviving Greek Gospel manuscripts; neither in the two 3rd century papyrus witnesses to John - P66 and P75; nor in the 4th century Codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, although all four of these manuscripts may acknowledge the existence of the passage via diacritical marks at the spot. The first surviving Greek manuscript to contain the pericope is the Latin/Greek diglot Codex Bezae of the late 4th or early 5th century. It is also the earliest surviving Latin manuscript to contain it; 17 of the 23 Old Latin manuscripts of John 7-8 contain at least part of the Pericope. Papias (circa AD 125) refers to a story of Jesus and a woman "accused of many sins" as being found in the Gospel of the Hebrews, which may well refer to this passage; there is a very certain quotation of the pericope adulterae in the 3rd Century Syriac Didascalia Apostolorum; though without indicating John's Gospel.
And, even if you want to use this to justify not stoning adulterers, can we still stone unruly children? Lord knows there have been some times in restaurants I was tempted...............edit on 21-4-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)
Matthew 5 - Jesus Says...
22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by FreedomNow
Why are you posting random unrelated Bible quotes? Are you that drunk Revered Schnorr from the Jerry Springer show?
Who is angry? Im sure not. Im just pointing out that there are some flaws in the arguments.
Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by FreedomNow
Im proud of you. So you do not judge homosexuals.
I dont know why you are posting to me then. And really, two things. One, you are not supposed to be quoting someone elses entire post, repeatedly. Read the TnC. It just takes up a lot of room on the screen for nothing. And secondly, if you are trying to make a point to me, dont be so lazy that you contribute nothing at all yourself. I know the Bible better than you do. I know what Jesus said. You should accompany it with what YOU want to say too, or else you are just wasting pixels posting a conversation between me and Jesus, with no involvement of your own, other than to post it.
Originally posted by spacegod
Wow. It's impossible to talk pragmatics with people talking dogma.
What stated out as a discussion ended up with people throwing Bible verses at each other.
At least we've evolved a little and aren't monkeys throwing feces back and forth.
Using the Bible to prove or disprove things about the Bible is tedious, lazy, and obnoxiously circular.
We all have a right to live until we start hurting anyone.
And contrary to mob opinion, we certainly don't need a Bible or a God to understand that or to be nice,
Morality should be the result of intelligence not the rules for it.
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Originally posted by IAMIAM
Ok, I see where you are coming from so thanks for sharing. That review has a lot of bias and misunderstanding in it. I would counter it, but that would only throw this topic off course.
When I get the time to do so, I will write a similar unbiased (I am neither atheist nor christian) look at the sermon on the mount and explain why I think it is logical sound advice.
Would be interested in joining such a discussion if and when I do so?
With Love,
Your Brother
I see bias but not misunderstanding. We could go over that topic if you wish though I don't find much interesting about the SOTM. I would largely parrot the viewpoint in that link.
Originally posted by kove400
reply to post by halfoldman
This is one of the problems of our modern day society, and the churches. People read the Scriptures and get to the 'Old Covenant' rules and commandments and figure we should follow that. Well, before you get all up tight over the verses in the old testament, there is a new testament that we are supposed to be following. I dont have time to explain all this, but heres a small breakdown.
We have to understand in 'those days' of Moses, David, Solomon, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Elijah etc, were commanded by Yahuwah( the real name of God) to punish those who broke the law ie. the 10 commandments.
The 10 commandments was called the 'Law of sin and death', those who broke it, were stone, hanged, be-headed etc. But, after many years until Israel became corrupted by their own sin, they were thrown into captivity of Nebukadnetser of Babylon and the covenant was broken. Now that covenant was broken, a 'New Covenant' had to be re-issued to the people of Israel. This was the prophecy of the Messiah Yahuwshuwah(who the lying scholars call Jesus- Je-zeus).
The Messiah Yahuwshwuah brought the New Covenant to the people and all the Gentiles (the others who were not Yahudim(Jews)) to love one another, not to judge by the old covenant, give to one another, and be led by the Set-Apart Spirit, and not the 10 commandments. This is called the Righteousness of the Law. The Isrealites of Moses' day were under the "letter of the Law".
So we don't stone those who break the law, cause we are not the judge, Yahuwshuwah is. Like it says in John 8:7 "But as they kept on questioning Him, He straightened up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
We arent under the old covenant, we are under a new covenant to love one another and to forgive.