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Bible verses clearly condone the Killing of Gays and Witches.

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posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by FreedomNow
 


If you would follow the rules of ATS and not quote entire posts of other people, with no input of your own to clarify your point, maybe we would not even need to have this exchange.

If you made it clear to me WHAT you were replying to in the first place, I could tell you that it was a joke. I really dont want to stone children, and then there would be no need for the other posts where you contribute nothing of your own.

I never argued that what Jesus said was not meaningful. Only that your disregard for the norms of posting made it pointless. Make your own point. If you are arguing against something I said, be specific, so I can reply in a meaningful way. Use scripture to bolster your point if you wish, but dont just post scripture with no contribution of your own. I know what Jesus said. What I dont know is what YOUR point is. Mostly, because you decline to provide it.


I thought the quotes of Jesus were quite self explanatory… apparently not... my “opinion” is whatever Christ says is true... therefore his words are more to the point than anything I could offer... are you suggesting I should interpret His words for you so as you can understand what he means by them?

Furthermore I'm not arguing with anything you've said... I was merely pointing to what Jesus says in regards to the law of the Old Testament... nothing more




posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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George Carlin, ten commandments...



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


At the beginning of the covenant terms and agreement, YHVH states "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

That does not include me or mine, and elsewhere the bible does state that the law applies to israel as well as the foreigner dwelling amongst Israel.

To state that it's inclusive of all people smacks of 'taxation without representation' - very roughly, of course. I will however review the page you provided as time allows - I've run into likely similiar things before at EliYah.com, but an obvious issue I find is that, as noted previously, there are aspects of the law as given in torah that directly contradict the teachings of messiah as well (various laws on killing, etc.).

I know the temple sacrifices and the like are addressed by the fact that they are only required when there is a temple in Jerusalem, but offhand as I don't have a chance to review this in-depth now, can you provide a reconciliation of these issues?

Thanks for the info.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


You do know why its called the OLD Testament don't you? Didn't think so...



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


' they shall surely be put to death '

the Almighty is stating what ' He will ' do.

if you think you've hit the jackpot.. think again. your very soul is the ones at stake here. Believe.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 

as i understand it it was the hyksos that were in the exodus
www.bibleandscience.com...
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
so, if jesus didn't say kill gay witches
that group should be OK?
or, are they the ones trying to bump off the competition...?
the church being what it appears to be and all...


edit on 21-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
Well, if unwanted advances are an excuse to kill people, then why not Exodus 22:18?

Though shalt not suffer a witch to live.


Not positive here, but I believe that was a twist King James created from a line that read something on the order, "Thou shalt not tolerate a poisoner..."



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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King James was Gay



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


Thanks DanBones, bookmarked that for further review as well.

I've been curious about the hyksos for awhile as there were supposed to be some significant parallels there, and was a documentary sometime back that adjusted the date for the exodus to be more in-line with the hyksos movements.

I also remember discussion of the hapiru or habiru...which it looks like this article mentions as well. Much obliged, I'll dig into this!


so, if jesus didn't say kill gay witches
that group should be OK?
or, are they the ones trying to bump off the competition...?
the church being what it appears to be and all...


Dang you and your late edits...you obviously aren't paying attention to my earlier posts - that would be gay POISONERS.

Just kidding
. My argument is that the unpleasantness earlier in the bible had its justifications, but was also limited to the agreement 'god' made with the israelites specifically. Up for debate per the responses I got from other believers earlier, so I'll flag that as being under review for the time being.

But, as far as christian handling of any of those groups, yes, they should be fine as it's not our place to judge them - but instead to love them and show the will of god by example (NOT dictate or direct enforcement). You might need to clarify that last bit (competition - church being what it is) for me, though. Has been a heck of a day and I guess I'm just not following.

Thanks friend, be well.
edit on 4/21/2011 by Praetorius because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by lastrebel
 


Really?

"I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Not one jot or tittle will change until heaven and earth have passed away."


Jesus specifically said that he did not come to do away with the law.

Furthermore, heaven and earth are still here, so the law still stands.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



Jesus said he came to fulfill the law. You don't have to change a contract to fulfill it. You just have to keep up your end of the bargain. Jesus was trying to stress that he wasn't going to abolish the law or change it or get rid of it. But that his death and resurrection would fulfill it and complete it for all time. For that if the contract was for all time, then his sacrifice to pay for it would be valid for all time.

And the NT says that your belief in Jesus will fulfill the law for you. That it cannot be fulfilled by works, but only by faith. That only Jesus could physically fulfill the OT law, and any human will fall short. So why worry about things in the OT? No matter how many OT rules I follow, I'd always end up messing some part of it up. That's why Jesus had to come in the first place. I mean some Jews believe they can't even use an elevator on the sabbath. There's just so many rules you will always fall short. None of us are Jesus.

That the contract would always be the same and therefore his death and resurrection would count as a fulfillment of the contract for all time. That his fulfillment wasn't a temporary thing. That his death, until the end of time, would pay for all sins because the contract cannot be changed. Therefore his sacrifice can never be made meaningless.

If the OT covenant could ever be changed, that means it could be changed in a way that would make his sacrifice not count. But Jesus was smarter than that. He knew that if the old contract could never be changed, then his sacrifice would always stand for something. So, he basically convinced people to never change the contract while at the same time fulfilling the contract making it not apply anymore. Tricky tricky.

It doesn't mean the OT rules still apply. Jesus gave a new covenant and fulfilled the old one. This is quite simple to see, because if the OT contract hasn't been fulfilled, then Jesus' sacrifice would be pointless. It wouldn't mean anything. Nobody's sins would be paid for. We would still have to make animal sacrifices to pay for our sins in the OT still applied.

But Jesus fulfilled the contract. That was his whole point of coming. To provide man a way to pay for his sins. If he didn't do that, and the OT still applies, and we're still under that contract, then what was the point of Jesus?

Obviously anyone that still believes the OT applies must then explain to us, what exactly the point of Jesus was then? Why didn't he stone the women to death then? Why did he let her go? Why must we stone homosexuals? Wasn't their sins paid for too? Why do they need to be stoned to death? Can't they just repent too like the rest of us? Did Jesus die for everyone's sins EXCEPT homosexuals? I doubt it. Anyone that believes the OT still applies must explain all these things.

They say the OT still counts, but then won't explain why they're not sacrificing cows or stoning their children to death when they misbehave. Obviously something has changed. It's just nobody noticed. If the OT still applies then someone must explain to me, what was the point of Jesus? What did he die for?

When Jesus predicted his death he told the people that they would not taste death before they saw him entering into his kingdom. Then they saw him ascend to Heaven after he returned from the grave. Do the math. Jesus has already returned once and those people he said would see it, saw it.

We're the body of Christ and he's given us the instructions to do his work to make the new world. He's already in his new kingdom that is quote "Not of this world".

We just need to stop judging each other and start helping each other.
edit on 21-4-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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" The Old Testament law was nailed to the cross of Christ and thereby was brought to an end as a law to guide God's people.

Paul declared that Christians are "dead to the law by the body of Christ" and that this law was the law which said, "Thou shalt not covet", i.e. the ten commandments law (Romans 7:4,7). Elsewhere, Paul indicated that the veil which was "untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament ... is done away in Christ," the reason being it was "done away" (2 Corinthians 3:14,11).

Christ "abolished in his flesh ... the law of commandments by the cross" (Ephesians 2:15-16). In fact, he was said to have removed the "handwriting of ordinances by nailing it to his cross" (Colossians 2:14)
www.scripturessay.com...



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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I believe in a Supreme being but not in organized religion...If everyone, of every faith and denomination would throw their bibles in the trash this world would be a far greater place to live...Think for yourselves...Don't let some so called preacher think for you.....he is no better nor worse than you...What do you think your brain is for...just to fill up your head? Think, study and live right righteously, you'll get to where your going and you'll be just fine....



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Rustami
 


Take it in context.

Jesus was teaching against salvation by works. The whole Tanakh is based upon salvation through faith, as is the Newer Covenant
edit on 4/21/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by steven704
 


Devil's advocating as is my wont, I will say this interpretations of the epistles is also up for debate.

It's been awhile since I've reviewed and right now I just honestly don't have the will for it, but if you or anyone else who's interested could take time to review the articles at eliyah.com... I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.

From my recollection, EliYah did have some decent explanations with a lot of study behind them to account for his beliefs, and I will say directly that as the NT clarifies that sin is violation of the law - and christians should not sin - then things do get somewhat fuzzy. Ascribing to the law cannot be the determination of salvation as that comes by grace through faith, but if Christ fulfilled the law and we are supposed to walk according to his steps to show that we are in him, then it seems that adhering to the law is a sign that we indeed are walking according to faith.

Hence my cognitive dissonance and need for further review as far as the discrepancy between some of the more-applicable-to-israel (IMHO) dictates given.

Grace and peace to you.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by halfoldman
Well, if unwanted advances are an excuse to kill people, then why not Exodus 22:18?

Though shalt not suffer a witch to live.


Not positive here, but I believe that was a twist King James created from a line that read something on the order, "Thou shalt not tolerate a poisoner..."


The passage from the Young's Literal Translation is as follows:-

18 `A witch thou dost not keep alive.

Young's translation is a translation of the orignal Hebrew and Greek scrolls to English.

You can read it in context from this link:-

Exodus 22: Young's Translation



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by lastrebel
reply to post by Gemwolf
 


Again as I stated, The law of Jesus surpasses the law of Moses


Oh so it's true because YOU "stated" it? Haha! Why don't you get on to writing the next chaper in the bible if you're that good? Don't worry, the rest of it was writte by people too, just please be creative ands add dragons.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 


There are two laws. The OT that only applied to Jews. If you were a gentile even if you followed the OT law perfectly it wouldn't matter. It didn't apply to gentiles and they weren't able to reap the rewards for it anyway unless they converted. Jesus gives a new law that applied to everyone including gentiles. The covenant in the NT. They're a lot alike in some places, so people think they're the same law, but they have differences.

The NT says you should have faith and follow the NT law as close as possible, but the difference is, if you break one of the NT laws, you don't get stoned to death. You just ask forgiveness, repent (turn away from your sin and don't commit again) and move on.

In my theory, This is why people practice religion. It takes practice. You mess up a lot and have to try again. But the NT says we can always be forgiven so we can try again. This being one of the major differences.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomNow

Certainly if you don't want to go to Heaven you can think and agree with anything you want... God is not going to force you to Love him... he was brutally beaten for you people and you could care less



Sorry, but that's just silly.
Jesus wasn't beaten for me or anyone else.
And lots of people have given their lives for others, even for beloved pets.
Sacrifice isn't so special.

There is no such thing as "heaven." You probably read that in a book somewhere.
Heaven or hell is right here right now of our own making.
Jesus even said it: "The kingdom of heaven is within you."

Religion and heaven is a fire escape for most people.
Something to hope for to take away the fear of death.
Either death extinguishes your light of consciousness like a lamp--or your consciousness awakens
to a new reality--just like when we fell out of our mom and awoke into this reality.

Please don't feel sorry that I don't torture myself with self-imposed ignorance to feel better.




edit on 21-4-2011 by spacegod because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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tinfoilman :

" And the NT says that your belief in Jesus will fulfill the law for you. That it cannot be fulfilled by works, but only by faith. That only Jesus could physically fulfill the OT law, and any human will fall short. So why worry about things in the OT? No matter how many OT rules I follow, I'd always end up messing some part of it up. That's why Jesus had to come in the first place. " VERY TRUE...



Matthew 11 King James Version
. 28) Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30) For my yoke is ((((easy)))) , and my burden is light.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by Danbones
King James was Gay


I do believe you're right.

[smile]




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