The Letter My Friend Says I Shouldn't Send - A True Story

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posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 

You can get pissed or you can get wise, that is entirely up to you. Based on your story it is pretty clear you have made some poor choices and the end result is not good. Things like "cross country bus trip" and "ex" and "life partner" are not conducive with your stated goal of creating a stable environment for your child.
Don't blame others for a situation you created, review your part in this drama, connect the dots and accept responsibility. Only after you do that can you begin the process of repairing the damage and building a future.




posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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Hold tight Amaterasu. The world has an uncanny way of working things out!

Best,
IRM



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 

I know I don't know you, and I know you are upset, but honestly these letters sound like they are coming from my mother (she was a vengeful woman). Please do not send them, because you're relatives that screwed you over will feel justified in their actions.
Your daughter will also believe that mommy doesn't care if you send this letter. She's still young and she needs her mom. Please send her a warm letter, without venom, letting her know that you love her and despite her circumstances, you will always be there for her. Write from the heart that way she will insist to her new family that she wants contact with her mother (instead of believing her aunt/uncle were right). Do this so she will want to keep in touch with you as she grows up and you won't lose her. When she becomes an adult (maybe sooner if she feels comfortable writing you), you guys can discuss the issues that happened as well as her perspective.
Remember, even though people are children for a short time and adults much longer, their childhood experiences will shape them as adults. You don't want to lose her forever.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 12:41 AM
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I really have no advise to give here.Other then the observation that your court appointed lawyer was a waste of space.Seems to me he just wanted to get this over with.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by electricalpup
Please do not send this letter. I was this child many moons ago, same circumstance. My Aunt tried to brainwash me to hate my Mother and Step-Father,

Even though I was young, I realized what she was doing. I played along because part of me was extremely hurt,heartbroken and mad. Without going into my life story, whenever you see or speak to your child, never ever say anything bad about the other people. Only focus your love on your child, smile and let your love speak from your eyes.

This is the gift my Mother gave me, and this gift is what carried me through the dark days. Let your child see this gift in you, this love is what will speak to her heart in her youth, a Mothers love that will permeate her spirit core.

I send you love.


Thank you too for your kind words. I will hold off. I don't speak poorly of others to my daughter - not that I get to speak with her anyway... She would not have seen what I wrote to her until many years hence - but for now, I'll work the issues some other way.

Thank you for you love. I appreciate it greatly.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
Clearly someone thinks that the benefit of the child is better served by her staying where she is. How that notion came to reside in the mind of a judge is another matter. Are you able to believe that she is in no danger, and well cared for?


I have no fear of my child being raised by my sister in terms of general care. I worry about her ethics, however...


Are you in despair over not having your child with you, or is the child in despair over not having you? Has she been shielded from the drama? She surely wont forget the truth. You have the means to prove (and I'm sure your competent attorney must have compiled all the instances of your former petitions for her custody) that you never wanted to abandon her. Surely she knows you love and want her; and in 5 years time, she will have a full understanding of what happened.


"My" attorney did nothing. He was assigned by the court and his job was to break me. He was good at that.


But know that her welfare is not the real issue.... it never was. This is about something your family perceives strongly enough to drive them to risk alienating you... this is something outside the courtroom. That is a disadvantage both to you, because they have custody, and them, because they will forever be burdened with a misrepresentation they will be forced to maintain.


My sister was never able to have children... I suspect this is mostly about that.


Forgive me... perhaps I've gone too far. Let me address less personal things, I'm afraid I've been hit by the presumption bus; down that road lies madness.


Not too far. I appreciate your input!


Your lawyer sucked. There is no way, given what you have stated, that this case should have ever gotten to the point of your lawyer folding at the mediation before trial.


He didn't fold. He did as planned. He did not discuss what we could do in court. I would call him and leave messages, email him, give him info which he did nothing with, and he only called me three times in the month with a few questions. He was on a mission to break me that day. It meant he didn't have to do any work at all. Court appointed attorneys do indeed suck.


He could have simply stated, "My client advises me she wishes this to be formally adjudicated in court."


Well, we were formally adjudicating that day... But rather than take my side, he took the easy route.


Then he would have been able to prepare a better case focusing on the repeated attempts to resume full custody. Sounds to me like you found another one of those 'cookie-cutter law' attorneys who value compliance over confrontation. If you need a lawyer, but can't afford one, go to a local law clinic at the nearest university which teaches law.... contact support groups for people who have been separated from their children... they all know the advocacy groups that can try to help.


Well, I didn't find him. He was appointed to me at the first court appearance.


If you were truly brow-beaten into conceding, call the BAR to lodge a complaint that your lawyer did not represent you competently, nor in good faith.


Would that be the BAR in my state? Or in the one across country? Because I very much was not represented as I should have been.


..... by the way, did I mention that I am not a lawyer and am not considered able to give competent legal advice? It's true. I am not.


[smile] Still, you have good ideas. And I appreciate them greatly.


Your letter is not possible. Do not send it, wait three days. Then consider if this is the message you want associated with you in light of your situation. I suspect any lawyer would say "Hell no."


Well, I will hold off. But truly, I lost all I had when I agreed to give up my parental rights. There is nothing left.


By the way; have you ever considered that the reason for the letter is because you want to communicate with them... get feedback? Is that really what you want? Or just to make them feel bad and 'give them a piece of your mind'? Or maybe to re-craft the events in your mind and theirs by retroactively rationalizing what has happened according to the bias of a mind beset with a grief few can relate to? Do you think they want to hurt you? Do they think you want to hurt them? Can you envision a happy ending to this story that doesn't include a permanent schism in your family? And what effect would that have on your child?


Giving them a piece of my mind is what I want - and then no further contact. I don't think they want to hurt me, per se. I think they don't care much that it hurts me so long as they can have my child. They think I can't hurt them. They're probably correct. And I wouldn't want to. I just want them to know my perspective and then be gone. As for imagining a happy ending... Not any longer. I have no right to my child. If I vanished, I can't imagine that would have much effect on this child who believes wrong and ugly things about her father and me. She WANTS to be adopted by her aunt and the partner.

I am bereft and would walk away.


What about your child? Is this really about her, or them, or maybe you?


At this point, it's about me. It was about her before I was browbeaten into giving up hope. Now... She is there and I have no rights. So for my peace, I want to give them my mind.


Some of what I have written may seem obtuse or waaaay off the mark - or even accidentally correct; but it is all a product of my own mind as it wanders about what you've asked us all to consider. I apologize if I was rude or somehow caused offense, certainly none was offered intentionally.


No, you're very astute. And helpful. No offense taken whatsoever. [smile] Thank you for your honesty.


I have some questions I would really like to ask you though; how much trust should we invest in forums like these for such intensely personal matters? I ask because I am probably too old to feel that comfortable doing such things, it seems too much to trust, you know what I mean? On the other hand, if any one of us has given you anything positive to use - that's good too.


No "trust," per se, but a variety of viewpoints helps. Yes, I do appreciate the input. I would have sent that letter despite my friend's advice, but having it reconfirmed here helps.

Thank you.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Amaterasu
 





Anyone on ATS have helpful thoughts?


Write to your daughter and explain things so she can understand without all the hate and blaming involved, kids are not stupid they see things, so it is better to give her the down low on events whenever possible, and keep in touch, make sure she gets it, both the letters and your situation. Forget all other's opinions on how things should be such as your sisters and company, they do not matter and it will lead to a bunch of hot air and pointing of fingers anyways. And it sound like your really need some luck going for you in your life, so I wish you luck in your endeavors.


I will be writing her when I can put something down that I can live with. As for needing luck. Heh. My daughter is but one aspect of my life crumbling. Yeah. How long can one person go with bad luck? I may set a record. LOL!

Thank you for your wishes.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Trublbrwing
reply to post by Amaterasu
 

You can get pissed or you can get wise, that is entirely up to you. Based on your story it is pretty clear you have made some poor choices and the end result is not good. Things like "cross country bus trip" and "ex" and "life partner" are not conducive with your stated goal of creating a stable environment for your child.


Well... My life partner is my legal husband in some states - we have been together 10 years - and have a place near schools, have much community support, and so on. My sister and HER life partner (been together 7 yearsish) and HER ex-husband are the ones who have my child. This should be a ding in THEIR boat, not mine.

What's the problem with a cross-country bus trip?

The poor choice I made was sending my beloved daughter to my sister's.


Don't blame others for a situation you created, review your part in this drama, connect the dots and accept responsibility. Only after you do that can you begin the process of repairing the damage and building a future.


I accept responsibility for sending my daughter to a sister I thought I could trust to send her back as agreed. That she is barren and stole my child, I will NOT take responsibility for.

If she had returned our daughter as agreed, my daughter would still have wanted to come home. My daughter would not have been brainwashed and turned into a haughty little Disney Consumer Doll.

But my sister broke her agreement. I don't take responsibility for that.

Thanks for your viewpoint.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Hold tight Amaterasu. The world has an uncanny way of working things out!

Best,
IRM


Thanks, IRM. I have held that thought as I have looked for work for the last five years. I held that thought all the way across country on the bus. It's beginning to feel like I will never have things work out and I am destined to be luckless the rest of my life.

But somehow I keep clinging to that. [smile] Eternally an optimist, I guess.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by mike dangerously
I really have no advise to give here.Other then the observation that your court appointed lawyer was a waste of space.Seems to me he just wanted to get this over with.


You nailed it on the head! No, the man wanted no work at all. He did not contact me to discuss strategy (though I called him (his machine), emailed him, and tried to get info from him). He asked a few general questions in three calls. He surely was not representing ME.

Thanks for your reply. [smile]



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 06:45 AM
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Now is the time for healing...Your points are not important to them.They will never change their minds, by you sending them a letter to cut-ties and upset only gives them what they expect.Let it go! and heal.Stay humble for your daughter.You'll be surprised this will not only make you feel in control, but also make you seem to be in a better place in life.Which may make her guardians let MC see you...



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


I can't imagine what you are going through, but the legal side of all this does indeed sound fishy. I don't know the circumstances precisely, or the laws of the individual state(s) that this took place. However their are some inconsistencies that just don't add up. 1st did you at any point sign over guardianship of your child? If not you should have inforced possession of your child immediately the day you came to get her with physical police presence. If you did sign over guardianship, Yikes! big mistake. If your attorney, court appointed, or not did not represent your interest, or tried to coerse you against your will in any way, this is illegal, and you can, and should have him depositioned before the state bar, and press for his disbarment. You might also have the case thrown out for misrepresentation, but don't wait. If you decide to fight it too far down the line it lacks authenticity, and substance.

If you do fight it again legally (I think you could/should.) You MAKE the lawyer represent your interests. You state emphatically, and without wavering that you want your child back. No other options on the table, do not even present them. They have to do what you tell them to as long as it is appropriate, and legal. They are your representative. You are the boss of him/her, whether paid for from your pocket or the county's.

I believe you truly were screwed, but don't give up without a fight. Sometimes persistence pays. If it were my child the other parties involved would find themselves in court as often as I could get them there. Make it a battle of atrition if you must, but don't give up. One judges ruling is not eternal. Rulings are changed all the time. Some judges will take into account the sheer persistence, and see that you are serious, and want your child back. Sometimes the undue red tape is to weed out people who aren't willing to fight for their kids. DON'T EVER GIVE UP!!! At the least when your daughter is older, and can make her own decisions she will see a mountain of evidence that you fought like a tiger for her.

Also I wouldn't send the letter, and keep any communication you get to have with her on your positive feelings of love, and commitment to her. Kids are not dumb. She will figure it out. If they want to keep her make them fight for it tooth, and nail every day. Do your best within legal confines to make keeping her simply not worth the trouble. Carbarundum illigitum- Wear the bastards down.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Binder
reply to post by Amaterasu
 


I can't imagine what you are going through, but the legal side of all this does indeed sound fishy. I don't know the circumstances precisely, or the laws of the individual state(s) that this took place. However their are some inconsistencies that just don't add up. 1st did you at any point sign over guardianship of your child?


Yes, and that relates to my father-in-law lying to me three times. He brought the paperwork to us for sig. When I said it looked as if I was giving up control of when she returned, three times as I expressed concerns, he assured me that *I* would retain that control. Obviously, he lied.


If you did sign over guardianship, Yikes! big mistake.


Well, yeah. And I was lied to to get me to sign. This is why I feel it is indeed a conspiracy. My sister had the papers drawn up so that she had the authority to make medical decisions and enroll her in a (quite good - but we have equal here) school. My daughter is going to a magnet school focused on science and math, her favorite subjects. I offered, during the tense conversation prior to being nailed by that lizard they assigned me, to quit trying to get my daughter back if they would leave my parental rights intact.

But my sister, having planted the idea of adoption into my child's head and played it up with her, had so latched on to this idea that now my sister just couldn't quit on a technicality. She HAD to adopt - a thing that will change nothing - except that, if at age 12 (or any time thereafter), when she has the right to make her own choices in these particular matters, she wants to come to me, she has to have THEIR permission.


If your attorney, court appointed, or not did not represent your interest, or tried to coerse you against your will in any way, this is illegal, and you can, and should have him depositioned before the state bar, and press for his disbarment. You might also have the case thrown out for misrepresentation, but don't wait. If you decide to fight it too far down the line it lacks authenticity, and substance.


That's the course I plan to take. Thank you.


If you do fight it again legally (I think you could/should.) You MAKE the lawyer represent your interests. You state emphatically, and without wavering that you want your child back. No other options on the table, do not even present them. They have to do what you tell them to as long as it is appropriate, and legal. They are your representative. You are the boss of him/her, whether paid for from your pocket or the county's.


Well, yes. If I had not been stressed and emotionally a basket case, I probably would have nailed the guy, but expectations are that you'll get SOME help, so I kept being nice. I did express issues with the guy when he promised me copies of the "unbiased" report and recommendation done in the next county over (where my sister had worked in the past) at the "negotiation" meeting when we firmed up the final court date. He said he would get them to me, but after we came out of the courtroom I had forgotten and in the middle of trying to get answers from the man he turned and stared to walk away.

My friend and I followed, still asking our questions which he gave curt and uninformative answers to and then, waving his hand as if he was pushing away a bug that was bothering him, he disappeared through a door. I called and emailed him when we got home. I called and emailed him two days later, and about then I expressed my first concerns about his performance. He called me and assured me that he would mail it.

A week went by - with one week to go to the court date and I hadn't seen the document that the judge was going to rubber stamp. I was very curt and expressive when I called and emailed. Two days later - about the time it takes when a piece of mail is sent from the one city to the other, I got the copies, and lo... The stamps had a manual cancellation via ball-point pen. So I can't even prove he failed to mail it when he initially said he would.


I believe you truly were screwed, but don't give up without a fight. Sometimes persistence pays. If it were my child the other parties involved would find themselves in court as often as I could get them there. Make it a battle of atrition if you must, but don't give up. One judges ruling is not eternal. Rulings are changed all the time. Some judges will take into account the sheer persistence, and see that you are serious, and want your child back. Sometimes the undue red tape is to weed out people who aren't willing to fight for their kids. DON'T EVER GIVE UP!!! At the least when your daughter is older, and can make her own decisions she will see a mountain of evidence that you fought like a tiger for her.


Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, this helps. To just have someone address the major source of my fury.


Also I wouldn't send the letter, and keep any communication you get to have with her on your positive feelings of love, and commitment to her. Kids are not dumb. She will figure it out. If they want to keep her make them fight for it tooth, and nail every day. Do your best within legal confines to make keeping her simply not worth the trouble. Carbarundum illigitum- Wear the bastards down.


And thank you again.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu


Anyone on ATS have helpful thoughts?
edit on 4/20/2011 by Amaterasu because: Add cast of characters


Look, I'm about be harsh. I don't judge you in the slightest, I feel very sincere empathy for your situation.

You need to get your crap in order. Your life sounds like a complete wandering vagabond style mess. You can't live like some traveling gypsy and properly give a child (especially a girl) a solid foundation to make confident decisions for her life.

Get a job, a full time no sh!t real job, with benefits. Get an apartment. lock into a 1 year lease agreement and pay your bills.

Drop your idealistic dream of starting a new political party - or whatever that crap in your signature is - and get focused on your actual life in the here and now.

You either put your daughter first, or you don't deserve custody of her. Playing around with all these dalliances while not holding a job and remaining "homeless" simply isn't showing that you have any intent to put her first instead of yourself.

Sorry to say, once you become a mother, what you wanted in life is dead and gone. It's all about your kid now. You need to live for them. Your dreams come 2nd to their needs... PERIOD.

If you can't accept that, and live as such, then you cannot expect everyone else around you to cater to what YOU want.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by davidgrouchy
You, just as everyone I have known my entire life, are suffering from Antinomia.

I say send it.
Send it every day.
Send it to everyone.
Parents, friends, neigbors.
Mail copies of it to them weekly.

Do this for years on end. Never change a word,
and everytime they try to contact you notify the police you are being stalked.

Unless it's your child.


David Grouchy
edit on 20-4-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)



I agree %100. These people screwed you over and should know how you feel about it. They may think that somewhere down the road, all will be forgiven. Don't. These are the kind of people who deserved to be hated and reminded constantly of why. Your friend is wrong. SEND IT. Take out the "Please" when you tell them not to contact you.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by ScorpioRising
 


What sound advice you gave the OP, I couldn't agree more with your suggestion.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Very good, I hope you do give em' hell. You are right in that you were taken advantage of in an emotionally compromised state. You can't afford to be nice. Be polite, be cordial, be professional, but if your next lawyer shows the slightest hint of weakness in your representation, very politely go for his jugular. Research the laws for the state this is in. Know your rights, and obligations, BE PREPARED. When they sling BS at you call them on it immediately. Let them know you are a force to be reckoned with.

I had to fight for my kids a few years ago, and to this day my ex is VERY polite, and chooses her words wisely around me. I didn't have much in the way of resources either, but I worked 3 jobs, got no sleep for 9 months, and became quickly proficient on family law in my state on my own. My lawyer hated me. The judge just wanted me to go away, and I used that to my advantage. They knew the only way I was going away was to have joint custody of my kids, period. No other option. I was a bulldog with a steak, and I won. I could have paid all the legal fees if I had a nickel for every time my lawyer said "I just don't think we can win this." When I won he said "You're a persistant Bast...." I said "Those are my children, I would burn the world for them." Don't get between a parent, and their kids unless you are ready to face hell in all it's fury!!! I feel just a little strongly about this.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by davidgrouchy
You, just as everyone I have known my entire life, are suffering from Antinomia.

I say send it.
Send it every day.
Send it to everyone.
Parents, friends, neigbors.
Mail copies of it to them weekly.

Do this for years on end. Never change a word,
and everytime they try to contact you notify the police you are being stalked.

Unless it's your child.


David Grouchy
edit on 20-4-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)


I've read and re-read your comment and it makes no sense for her to do what you suggest. Why would she waste her time and money sending these folks this letter over and over when the guilty parties know what they did and how they hurt her? She would be wise to attempt positive contact with her child without any mention of the adult deceit that lead to the current living situation. In the end her child will realize he or she was always loved and apart of their parents' thoughts. Sending that long letter rehashing betrayal would serve only to give legal substance to her adversaries, in reality she would be harassing them thusly creating more problems for herself.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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First off the fact that this is even in General conspiracies amazes me.

I don't have much to say and what I do you will not like so I will try to make it short.

You have a long way to go it seems before you can take care of yourself let alone a child. You have no residence or employment. Yet you somehow think that you are able to take care of a child?

You wrote an e-mail which you should not send in any way shape or form. You put things on their which no one should say to any eight year old and then tell everyone here that they wouldn't show it to her.

So let me get this straight The people who are trying to "brainwash" your daughter wouldn't use fuel that you, yourself are supplying them to do this? That doesn't make sense to me and how it has to so many others ..... just boggles my mind.

You seem to be an idealist and I envy that. I however am not and as a poster above stated Once you have a child your ideals, hopes, dreams etc. either get put on hold until they can take care of themselves or they just go out the window all together.

My advice would be to stop posting on here from the public library or wherever you post from. Drop the I'm gonna change the world crap, and get your life in order. Get a job, get an apartment, an auto, an actual cell phone (not one issued from where/what ever company or organization that only issues you 68 minutes a month). Live like this for a year or two, save up money get a real attorney and then go get your child back.

I'm sorry for coming off as mean, however my father left when I was 3 and I didn't see nor hear from him for 14 years after. Although we repaired our relationship it was never what I wanted and he passed just a few months ago. I have had a hard time with it and I still sit and wonder what things would've been like if (thinking about this is actually why I posted) ............ . Alas at the end of the day it was his choice to continue to live his life and not be there for his children.

It sounds to me like you are doing the same and have been told as much by people in the "real world". You didn't like it so you came here to get sympathy and help re -affirm you imo skewed beliefs. Sorry I'm not going to co-sign your BS like many of the posters in here have done.

Lets be honest OP you are not looking for people to tell you not to send this letter you are looking for sympathy so you can feel justified to continue doing things your way and play the victim instead of living how you should and doing what you must to get your daughter back.

I hope you come to your senses and do what must be done and not what you feel should be done. In the mean time I feel your daughter is right where she should be.

Best of Luck


DeWayne

P.S. Please realize every second of everyday you are away from your child is time with her that you will never get back

edit on 21/4/11 by TrowaBarton because: To add post script





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