Originally posted by Annee
Another thought.

There should be no communications except through lawyers.

I don't have either a lawyer or the money for one. The one they assigned - as you can see - was pathetic, and he's gone now. Here's the email I sent when I got home (I went from court to the bus station):

Dear Mr. Ochs,


I want to rescind my forfeiture of my parental rights and was just informed that this is an option. How do I do that and how long do I have to do so?

Once I calmed down after the trial, I realized how you played me. It became clear that you were not representing me so much as you were working with your "old boy" network, trying to make me cave to pressure - either in the interests of the petitioners or because you didn't want to bother with the effort of defending me. You kept telling me I would lose and that you wanted to secure something for me - if I lost I would wind up with nothing. In the pressure of the moment, with a lack of information, I cracked - went temporarily insane. Not once did you mention appeal, nor did you explain (as an attorney who cared about MY interests would have done) that I would lose my right to an appeal if I capitualted.

For that matter, you didn't even try to get me to ask for more than the petitioners were offering! Nor did you inform me that I could rescind my less than rational choice in the courtroom on Friday.

On top of all that, you never mentioned that I could (and should) challenge that very biased piece upon which the judge based her ruling - nor discuss HOW to challenge it. In fact, the only "advice" you gave was to cave.

I can assure you that I would have made very different choices if you had actually put forth much effort to inform me, to defend me, or even to discuss any strategy at all. But instead, you placed me under duress, deliberately removing me from my support, taking me aside from [My Friend] who truly did have my interest at heart, to pound me with dire assessments and giving me no hope.

Legal kidnapping runs rampant because of insensitive, lazy behavior such as yours appears to have been. At this point I imagine you may understand why attorneys have such a bad reputation...

Again, I want to rescind my forfeiture of my parental rights. Vindicate yourself and give me assistance.


Sincerely,



[Amaterasu]

Originally posted by LadySkadi
I'm sorry for your pain, such a sad time for you and family. You must do what you feel is right, but I would caution you not to make major/rash decisions in the midst of crisis/pain or trauma. You need time/space for a clear head and a clear perspective, allow yourself this. The letter can be sent later if you decide, must it be now? To what end will it bring and will that help anyone (especially you or your daughter) in anyway, right now? These are rhetorical questions, no need to answer them here, but do think about them. Peace to you...

Thank you. You are quite wise. Actually, I returned home on March 29. It's been weeks, but this still burns in my gut. How long would be appropriate do you think?

Originally posted by Annee
Just stay in contact and always positive. My dad abandoned us - pretty much. It wasn't that he was gone - - it was that he made no effort to stay in contact after he married the woman he ran off with. None of that mattered - - except the abandonment. If he had just called once a month - - or even twice a year.

That's what a child needs. A child needs to know they are not abandoned. Even if they have a good life.

I am sure I will calm down. It's just that my daughter was so dismissive of me, and snuggled and hugged my sister as she used to do to me. She rolled her eyes when she saw me once when we met. Like, "Oh. Geez. Gotta put up with this."

I just feel like walking away.

What a sad situation your in.. thats your own family
I would definately not send your daughter the part that you wrote for her. You probably havent had much contact with her lately and she would be waiting for some sort of communication. I could imagine your sister seeing the letter then hyping her up for it knowing that its got a more stern tone then what your daughter would expect then your daughter would be hurt by it. Which leaves more room for manipulation from your sister.

With the tone you have written it in it could backfire very easily concidering your daughter is probably already very hurt by the drama, they could turn around and say you are the manipulator.
I understand it would be very difficult because you must be screaming inside wanting to get your point across.. but all you can offer your daughter now is love because really thats what she wants and she wont fully understand the situation untill shes older, so maybe leave it until then
I hope it goes well for you!

Family can really suck at times. Have you thought of moving to the same town so you can get access? It can help in getting full custody back but is also a bit of a roller coaster ride for everyone with all the ups and downs with the back and fourths. Another option is to just pick up your kid and go somewhere that values the rights of the parent, there is a good chance the law will catch up with you but if you can get the hearings in a more independent court there will be a better chance. It could be risky if it backfires but there maybe some country, state or county around. Otherwise just learn from this experience, I know courts can be stressful places, pick yourself up and get ready for the next round. The lies that can get thrown around in these situations is pretty disgusting at times, do your homework, keep your head up and don't stop punchin.

As for the letter, save it for the archives. It is good to get the emotion out, but by the sounds of it they will just use it against you. Just keep the communication with your child until you calm down and worked out what the next step it.

My friend, please do not send the letter.

Anything you say can be used against you.

Do send a letter to your daughter.
Only say positve things
Tell her how much you love and miss her.

I know your heart is breaking and you want to reach out and strike back at those that have caused you this pain.

Remember, when you send out negative thoughts you get back negative thoughts.

If I were in your shoes I would be furious and want to hurt the ones that hurt you.

That goes against your plan for life.

Read back over your wonderful threads and see how you stressed love so many times.

I will pray for you daily.

If I could take your pain away I would.

Love and peace to you.

Originally posted by littlecloud
What a sad situation your in.. thats your own family
I would definately not send your daughter the part that you wrote for her. You probably havent had much contact with her lately and she would be waiting for some sort of communication. I could imagine your sister seeing the letter then hyping her up for it knowing that its got a more stern tone then what your daughter would expect then your daughter would be hurt by it. Which leaves more room for manipulation from your sister.

With the tone you have written it in it could backfire very easily concidering your daughter is probably already very hurt by the drama, they could turn around and say you are the manipulator.
I understand it would be very difficult because you must be screaming inside wanting to get your point across.. but all you can offer your daughter now is love because really thats what she wants and she wont fully understand the situation untill shes older, so maybe leave it until then
I hope it goes well for you!

I had no intentions of my daughter seeing this until she was older - it is for those others now, and her later. They would never give it to her and I know that.

You're very right though, if I actually got it to her. Thank you for your kind thoughts.

Originally posted by kwakakev
Family can really suck at times. Have you thought of moving to the same town so you can get access? It can help in getting full custody back but is also a bit of a roller coaster ride for everyone with all the ups and downs with the back and fourths. Another option is to just pick up your kid and go somewhere that values the rights of the parent, there is a good chance the law will catch up with you but if you can get the hearings in a more independent court there will be a better chance. It could be risky if it backfires but there maybe some country, state or county around. Otherwise just learn from this experience, I know courts can be stressful places, pick yourself up and get ready for the next round. The lies that can get thrown around in these situations is pretty disgusting at times, do your homework, keep your head up and don't stop punchin.

As for the letter, save it for the archives. It is good to get the emotion out, but by the sounds of it they will just use it against you. Just keep the communication with your child until you calm down and worked out what the next step it.

Yes, moving has been considered - but I am living on $58 a month, and my husband is a part time dishwasher and barely makes his half of the rent. We had to take rent money to pay for a bus ticket across country and back. I have been looking for work for five years now - concentrating in that area. Nothing. I could move - but to the homeless shelter there and maybe get on services and find a place to live. I lose the rest of my meager belongings (I lost a great deal when we went homeless), and have to hitchhike across country to get there - with virtually no money to eat.

I wish it was easier, but unless I get a job there (and that looks unlikely), moving really isn't an option. But I CAN'T get custody back. I no longer have parental rights of any kind. I was badgered into giving them up. They have no reason to use anything against me. They won with me. I hope they don't with my husband, but dollars to donuts he won't win an appeal - he has to be his own attorney since appeals require paid attorneys or do it yourself.

Thank you for your words and advice.

Originally posted by dizziedame
My friend, please do not send the letter.

Anything you say can be used against you.

Do send a letter to your daughter.
Only say positve things
Tell her how much you love and miss her.

I know your heart is breaking and you want to reach out and strike back at those that have caused you this pain.

Remember, when you send out negative thoughts you get back negative thoughts.

If I were in your shoes I would be furious and want to hurt the ones that hurt you.

That goes against your plan for life.

Read back over your wonderful threads and see how you stressed love so many times.

I will pray for you daily.

If I could take your pain away I would.

Love and peace to you.

Thank you so much. I still love my family - but in that detached way I love Humanity. I am aghast that they were so faithless. And so devious. And so unEthical. [sigh]

I appreciate your friendship.

Be your own best friend and listen to your best friend! Don't send the letter.

You say you still love your family. So when the rawness of your heartache has passed, (and it won't be long now that you have begun to reach out) send a different letter. One from the heart of a loving sibling, in-law, mother. Tell them you are disappointed with how things stand. Maybe, without bitterness or rancour, question how the family had come to the situation and tell them each why you love them.

Then sit back and see who amongst them still have love for you.

Forget about powers and authorities. Just get on with rebuilding your life so that once your daughter decides she does miss you, you are in a better position to provide for her. Don't send multiple letters, that could be deemed harassment and may injure your husband's case, the outcome upon which how you proceed with re-establishing your family depends.

Good luck with the job hunting. Maybe start looking for work near the area your daughter lives?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I just feel like walking away.

NO - don't do that.

She's 8. When she is old enough to understand - - that is when it will matter that you continued to Love her and stay connected.

Of course it isn't easy.

I had to divorce my first husband because he was jealous of his own children. Then he made zero effort to stay in contact. It was when the two of them were in their mid 20s and had their own children - - - they arranged a sort of intervention - - confronting him and telling him exactly how they felt.

Children need to know you Love them. Even if you can't be there.

Originally posted by Amaterasu


I had no intentions of my daughter seeing this until she was older - it is for those others now, and her later.

Then why include her in there? Just cut the part out that is addressed to her and send her a letter that is a lot more positive than what is written in the OP. Don't get me wrong, I understand your anger and sympathize but sending that with what you have addressed in there to your daughter whether she sees it or not, is as Burdman said, using her as a pawn in this.

I wouldn't send anything personally. Not yet anyway, except what you sent to the lawyer. Other than that, you need space between the event and when you compose your thoughts.

Originally posted by teapot
Be your own best friend and listen to your best friend! Don't send the letter.

You say you still love your family. So when the rawness of your heartache has passed, (and it won't be long now that you have begun to reach out) send a different letter. One from the heart of a loving sibling, in-law, mother. Tell them you are disappointed with how things stand. Maybe, without bitterness or rancour, question how the family had come to the situation and tell them each why you love them.

Then sit back and see who amongst them still have love for you.

Forget about powers and authorities. Just get on with rebuilding your life so that once your daughter decides she does miss you, you are in a better position to provide for her. Don't send multiple letters, that could be deemed harassment and may injure your husband's case, the outcome upon which how you proceed with re-establishing your family depends.

Good luck with the job hunting. Maybe start looking for work near the area your daughter lives?

Thank you. I really have nothing left to say to them but what I wrote. I will hold onto this, I guess.

And I have been looking for work for 5 years, concentrating on the area where my daughter lives. In this economy, I can't expect I'll suddenly have luck finding a job 3,000 miles away. But I'm not stopping, either.

Originally posted by GAOTU789

Originally posted by Amaterasu


I had no intentions of my daughter seeing this until she was older - it is for those others now, and her later.

Then why include her in there? Just cut the part out that is addressed to her and send her a letter that is a lot more positive than what is written in the OP. Don't get me wrong, I understand your anger and sympathize but sending that with what you have addressed in there to your daughter whether she sees it or not, is as Burdman said, using her as a pawn in this.

Not really using her as a pawn. More pointing out what they have done to our relationship. But you do have a point.

I wouldn't send anything personally. Not yet anyway, except what you sent to the lawyer. Other than that, you need space between the event and when you compose your thoughts.

Yes, I have concluded that is best. Thank you so much.

Please do not send this letter. I was this child many moons ago, same circumstance. My Aunt tried to brainwash me to hate my Mother and Step-Father,

Even though I was young, I realized what she was doing. I played along because part of me was extremely hurt,heartbroken and mad. Without going into my life story, whenever you see or speak to your child, never ever say anything bad about the other people. Only focus your love on your child, smile and let your love speak from your eyes.

This is the gift my Mother gave me, and this gift is what carried me through the dark days. Let your child see this gift in you, this love is what will speak to her heart in her youth, a Mothers love that will permeate her spirit core.

I send you love.

Amaterasu,

What you are enduring will factor in the way you can approach navigating through it. What I hope you understand is that it may be very unlikely, at this point, for you to actually fully experience this as you attempt to rationally get through it. It is the nature of hindsight, which you will benefit from someday. How soon that day comes is up to you - entirely.

I can't presume that I have any particular wisdom that can benefit you - at least insofar as 'making it all better;' but as a someone I find insightful and intelligent, I believe you will understand what I can offer, Questions and reflections. Some of these questions and reflections may evoke pain, although I can only hope that is not the case, I cannot guarantee this will be pleasant.

An author whom I consider fairly wise, once penned a beautiful thought, which I can only brusquely paraphrase because I don't have it memorized. Hopefully Gibran fans will forgive me.

When a man and a woman bring a child into this world, they are as a bow; with their combined strength and effort, together they launch their child as an arrow, into this world; knowing the best they can do is aim, because once the arrow has left the bow, it has only that strength and effort to help it on the way. The child will be affected by many things that neither parent can control, but if the aim is true, it is everything the parents could have hoped for, as they gave everything they could.

I offer this remembrance to color my next words in those terms. Please do not answer the questions.... the answers are for you, not me, not us.

You must be willing to accept that you may have given all you can to her. This is because she is already in flight. To return her to the bow requires something you cannot control, or can you? Consider this: Your daughter was in the care of you family because of circumstance; why they would choose to resist returning her may have nothing to do with injustice, suffering, or grief, or does it? What is the real obstacle to your reunion? Is it your relationship with the remainder of your family? Is this child the cause or a tool in this disagreement? Is their an offense to remedied, can the circumstance be changed? Is the perception of your family the circumstance now?

Clearly someone thinks that the benefit of the child is better served by her staying where she is. How that notion came to reside in the mind of a judge is another matter. Are you able to believe that she is in no danger, and well cared for?

Are you in despair over not having your child with you, or is the child in despair over not having you? Has she been shielded from the drama? She surely wont forget the truth. You have the means to prove (and I'm sure your competent attorney must have compiled all the instances of your former petitions for her custody) that you never wanted to abandon her. Surely she knows you love and want her; and in 5 years time, she will have a full understanding of what happened.

Despite the surrender, your heart must know that you can never truly be disconnected from your child. Correspond in handwritten letters. Read the books she reads, watch the TV shows she watches, discover the things that are normal in her life. Write her a book. Communication cannot be denied you, use it wisely... never lie, never speak ill of your family - ever - allow her to form her vision of the truth... she will not fail you.

If the child is the core of your life, then you must act as your heart compels you. If that means a choice of the hard road - in which she is at risk of sharing your pain - or the easy road, where you maintain a regimen of contact with her; that choice is yours. But know that her welfare is not the real issue.... it never was. This is about something your family perceives strongly enough to drive them to risk alienating you... this is something outside the courtroom. That is a disadvantage both to you, because they have custody, and them, because they will forever be burdened with a misrepresentation they will be forced to maintain.

Forgive me... perhaps I've gone too far. Let me address less personal things, I'm afraid I've been hit by the presumption bus; down that road lies madness.

Your lawyer sucked. There is no way, given what you have stated, that this case should have ever gotten to the point of your lawyer folding at the mediation before trial. He could have simply stated, "My client advises me she wishes this to be formally adjudicated in court." Then he would have been able to prepare a better case focusing on the repeated attempts to resume full custody. Sounds to me like you found another one of those 'cookie-cutter law' attorneys who value compliance over confrontation. If you need a lawyer, but can't afford one, go to a local law clinic at the nearest university which teaches law.... contact support groups for people who have been separated from their children... they all know the advocacy groups that can try to help.

If you were truly brow-beaten into conceding, call the BAR to lodge a complaint that your lawyer did not represent you competently, nor in good faith.

..... by the way, did I mention that I am not a lawyer and am not considered able to give competent legal advice? It's true. I am not.

Your letter is not possible. Do not send it, wait three days. Then consider if this is the message you want associated with you in light of your situation. I suspect any lawyer would say "Hell no."

By the way; have you ever considered that the reason for the letter is because you want to communicate with them... get feedback? Is that really what you want? Or just to make them feel bad and 'give them a piece of your mind'? Or maybe to re-craft the events in your mind and theirs by retroactively rationalizing what has happened according to the bias of a mind beset with a grief few can relate to? Do you think they want to hurt you? Do they think you want to hurt them? Can you envision a happy ending to this story that doesn't include a permanent schism in your family? And what effect would that have on your child?

What about your child? Is this really about her, or them, or maybe you?

Some of what I have written may seem obtuse or waaaay off the mark - or even accidentally correct; but it is all a product of my own mind as it wanders about what you've asked us all to consider. I apologize if I was rude or somehow caused offense, certainly none was offered intentionally.

I have some questions I would really like to ask you though; how much trust should we invest in forums like these for such intensely personal matters? I ask because I am probably too old to feel that comfortable doing such things, it seems too much to trust, you know what I mean? On the other hand, if any one of us has given you anything positive to use - that's good too.