A Simple Question to Christians

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by graphuto

 

I disagree. A parent who brings a child into the world doesn't have the right to take the child out of the world. If we say that human rights are inalienable, that means inalienable to god.

Apples and oranges. Parent's simply provide the ingredients for the child, they do not create it. They did not form it's conciousness.

reply to post by graphuto


Even if I agreed that it was god that made our consciousnesses, that wouldn't somehow give god the right to be a cosmic totalitarian dictator over us. Having consciousness gives us rights that your god doesn't respect.

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by graphuto

 

Even if I agreed that it was god that made our consciousnesses, that wouldn't somehow give god the right to be a cosmic totalitarian dictator over us. Having consciousness gives us rights that your god doesn't respect.

Colossians 1:16

For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

reply to post by graphuto


If a scientist created a conscious robot, that wouldn't mean he had the right to do what ever he wanted to do to the bot. Even if god creates us - something I categorically disagree with - that wouldn't mean he has the right to do whatever he likes with us. Inalienable human rights means inalienable. The god of the bile disregards those which to my mind is the definition of evil.

reply to post by rhinoceros


I'm sorry, where is the "simple question"?

All I read is a rant.

Originally posted by DaveakaRNG
You're initial question was, why are you on God's side. You're the one that answered, and I quote,

"God is the one who is filled with rage. It is God who kicks his children out of the paradise, and then creates disease, suffering, death, toil, starvation and pain. It's God who punishes us, not Satan"

That's why I'm on His side and do my best according to what He commands. Whether you like the Divine Creator or not is another subject for debate. I personally am pretty pissed off with God. However, I understand that I am human and His creation, and that there are just some things we're not supposed to understand in life.

Wow, lol, you and your 3 lb brain have it all figured out now don't ya? Who are you to judge God?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You wrote:

["Who are you to judge God?"]

And who are YOU to enforce circle-arguments on people?

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And who are YOU to enforce circle-arguments on people?

I'm not quite sure you even understand what a circular argument fallacy is.

You might want to Google it again.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And who are YOU to enforce circle-arguments on people?

I'm not quite sure you even understand what a circular argument fallacy is.

You might want to Google it again.

Here we go again, out in the extremist christian semantic gymnastics:

"We have the answer, so now we just have to adjust the circumstances to fit it".

Assumed christian 'absolute': God exists.

Any questions concerning this alleged 'god' can in extremist christian contexts and terms only be answered by accepting this postulate, thus (in the present case) disregarding the options:

1/ The bible is non-sense (in which case both 'god' and Satan are fantasies).

2/ Any 'real god' could be something/someone different from the 'god' of the bible (e.g. could 'god' be a malicious demiurge, and Satan the redeemer).

3/ There may be several 'gods'.

4/ The 'god' of the bible may be an entity running this planet as a plantation (and Satan be a competitor or a liberation-fighter).

By formulating your question: "Who are you to judge God" this way, you have automatically cut down the options of answers to such as fit your purposes.

It's a double-bind, based on your preconceived notions. So ofcourse 'god' can be questioned, simply by ignoring your religious postulates.

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by graphuto

 

If a scientist created a conscious robot, that wouldn't mean he had the right to do what ever he wanted to do to the bot. Even if god creates us - something I categorically disagree with - that wouldn't mean he has the right to do whatever he likes with us. Inalienable human rights means inalienable. The god of the bile disregards those which to my mind is the definition of evil.

edit on 18-4-2011 by Welfhard because: (no reason given)

Where do you get this term "inalienable" and what do you think makes it valid?

reply to post by graphuto


Rights are defined as inalienable, that's what it means. So either you believe there is such a thing as human rights, or you believe god has the right to do with us what it likes. You can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by graphuto

 

Rights are defined as inalienable, that's what it means. So either you believe there is such a thing as human rights, or you believe god has the right to do with us what it likes. You can't have it both ways.

LoL, I don't need it both ways. Im fine knowing that I was created to worship and serve God Almighty.

reply to post by graphuto


Inalienable and Unalienable mean two different things.

Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights.

"Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred."

From my understanding:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Which of these does the Lord not respect? Keep in mind that the Bible says numerous times that we are NOT to live in the flesh, and subscribe to worldly things. By God's definition, Life has nothing to do with this world, but what is beyond.

reply to post by graphuto


Then you're a slave and see nothing unjust about it. Do you think it was wrong that black people were keep as slaves? Because you don't seem to recognise their rights to autonomy.

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by graphuto

 

Then you're a slave and see nothing unjust about it. Do you think it was wrong that black people were keep as slaves? Because you don't seem to recognise their rights to autonomy.

Titus 2:9-10 ESV / 5 helpful votes

Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior.

Colossians 3:22 ESV / 4 helpful votes

Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:21-23 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ. You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men.


In short, No.

There is absolutely nothing that can be said by you or anyone else that can mock/negate/withstand the Word of God when discerned in The Spirit.

Luke 12:12

For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

reply to post by graphuto

In short, No.

This is why I don't know how Christians can possibly think their religion is somehow a source of Morals. Morality doesn't exist when the whole purpose of life is to stroke the ego of a dictator who's never earned the dictate other lives anyway.

Bringing it back to the OP, it really makes Satan look like the good guy trying to free minds.

reply to post by bogomil

Assumed christian 'absolute': God exists.

I know you're not new here so what's your excuse for being ignorant to the TOS for this forum?

Unless specifically addressed in the theme or OP of the thread it's assumed that God exists here.

Some of the topics in this forum will most certainly deal with the existence of God. Does God really exist? While this is a worthwhile topic many members wish to move past this introductory theme, past Religion 101, and would like to dive into deeper topic of religion and faith. Are Christians required to keep all of the 10 Commandments including the Sabbath day? Are the teachings of Mohammed peaceful, a beneficial for people today? Do Mormons really believe in polygamy? Do all Buddhist monks have flashbacks before battle? We can't begin to truly discuss these topics if we're constantly arguing about if God is real or not...

If you have questions that deal with the existence of God or want to ask if Mohammed actually was a real person or a myth, then please start a new discussion with a meaningful, appropriate title and you may then dominate a new discussion with this theme in mind. Please do not interject into deeper religious topics the question of the reality of a higher being. Unless stated in the topic, we are assuming in this forum that we've moved on past that point. Imagine discussing algebra while someone keeps interjecting that they still don’t believe in addition. The very reason that classes such as these have prerequisites is so new ground can be covered in the subject.

ALL MEMBERS READ - Moving Past Religion 101 and Staying on Topic

Now that that it settled, perhaps we can get back to the first post.

Questions were:

1. Why on God's side, since Satan is clearly the nicer guy in the Bible?

2. If still on God's side, then why aren't you being a good Christian, and a true enemy of Satan?

refer to first post

People only have this idea of evil Satan because of Dante's influence, but as far as I know my religious history he's not one of God's certified authors.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Now that that it settled, perhaps we can get back to the first post.

Questions were:

1. Why on God's side, since Satan is clearly the nicer guy in the Bible?

2. If still on God's side, then why aren't you being a good Christian, and a true enemy of Satan?

refer to first post

I want to see scripture portraying Satan as the "nicer guy" in the Bible.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Now that that it settled, perhaps we can get back to the first post.

Questions were:

1. Why on God's side, since Satan is clearly the nicer guy in the Bible?

2. If still on God's side, then why aren't you being a good Christian, and a true enemy of Satan?

refer to first post

People only have this idea of evil Satan because of Dante's influence, but as far as I know my religious history he's not one of God's certified authors.

1. Satan isn't portrayed as the "good guy". God entered His creation and took the punishment that we all deserve. That would be akin to someone being sentenced to die and at the last minute the judge who sentenced the man took the lethal injection himself.

2. Satan can't be "killed". He is a Spirit being. And if you know anything about Einstein's general theory of relativity time only affects things subjected to mass and gravity, therefore anything that's not affected by that is eternal. Your spirit is eternal as well.