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A Simple Question to Christians

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posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 09:26 AM
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Why are you on God's side?

According to the Bible Satan is not evil. In fact Satan doesn't say almost anything in the Bible. Satan certainly doesn't come off as hateful, as he never does anything really evil. So yeah, he tells Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, but it's not him who does the punishing. God on the other hand can't stand the slightest transgression. God is the one who is filled with rage. It is God who kicks his children out of the paradise, and then creates disease, suffering, death, toil, starvation and pain. It's God who punishes us, not Satan

This carries over to the concept of Heaven and Hell. It is not that we all go to Hell and God charges in to rescue us. God judges us and if we do not measure up, he rejects us and denies entry into heaven. He sends us where he sent Satan, here again God is the punisher and banisher, not Satan.

Later God for some reason decides to prove a point to Satan and does so by telling Satan to torture Job with sickness, death of his family members, loss of property and other evils. Not because Job had done anything wrong, Job was a good person. God does it just to show up Satan, for his own pride.

The instances of plagues, famines, petulance, flooding the world, destroying cities with fire, killing all the first born sons and the establishment of laws to govern animal sacrifice and deity worship (God gets angry if you do nothing more than say his name), this was all done by God, not Satan. The idea that Satan hates humans, or has caused us harm, or wishes us harm is not supported by the Bible. Satan is like us, created by God then rejected by God for an instance of disobedience.

The death toll in the Bible is God: millions, Satan: 11 (with god's explicit order)

Also, if after reading the above you're still on God's side, then why aren't you being a good Christian and doing everything in your power to end up in Hell, so that you might get a chance to kill Satan? If this isn't your aim, then you're not a true enemy of Satan.




posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by rhinoceros
 


God dosnt kill. humans do. he just welcomes us to his home. Now I was catholic. now i just belive in god. so I guess I had my bad feelings to the religion but I don not say its bad. I went to cathloc school for many years. Studyed the bible and still do. I noticed that just about every religion mirriors each other im many many ways. some of the stories are identical. Satan is the falling arc angel that couldnt follow orders, He was god's judge. I belive there is hell but not sure who runs it. Might not be santan. during translation they tend to combine deferant people thet sound alike it to one person. We wont know the truth till we die or if we lived many thousands and thousands of years ago. the real first gennisis. Now.that being said. I belive in god. I should have died years ago. I have had answered prayers. but i suffer in pain every day.. People think god is here to make sure we are good and healthy. thats not the plan. he is hear for after life not earth. people that give up faith becaise off ruff times thats santan tellin u theres no god. I think we are here for spirtual evelution. thats are connect with god. deep consious and afterlife. god isnt here so u can be lazy and not work and say theres no god cause your starving. if god had to live our lifes for us whats the point of making us. he could have just exsisted in this dimention

just woke up sorry for spelling



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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According to the Bible, satan IS evil. (Read, for example, Isaiah 14:12-20)

He is a deceiver, instilling doubt, calling God a liar.

Jesus said "He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (Joh 8:44, NIV)

I chose Jesus, because he is the way, the truth, and the life!



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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I've done a bit of research into this issue myself and it is very interesting.

If you go back to early Judaism tradition, back third century BC and earlier, the view of the Devil was not one discrete individual with his own character but rather as an employee of God. Satan means accuser which is a job title, not a name. And that kind of view is what you see a lot in the OT, particularly Genesis and Job.

This Satan puts me in mind of Prometheus. The both gave power to humans, in the form of fire for the Greek legend, and in the form of information in the Jewish legend. Both ended up getting punished for doing this but in the case of Prometheus he became a hero for humanity whereas Satan was rebranded as the king of evil, like an anti-god. You never hear his side of the story though.

The evolution of the concept of the all evil anti-god is highly tied with the evolution of the idea that god is ALL good. That's not something that would jive with a BCE Jew. They expected god to test them (ie. inflict them with something) alot, and that's essentially the source of their hardship. An example of this remains till today when Christians mourn over a lost child and say "God bringeth and god taketh away." It's really an example of Christians not thinking through what they say; there is a real double standard here.



Originally posted by Swissdom
He is a deceiver, instilling doubt, calling God a liar.


What if god is a liar? It says in the bible that god cannot (or will not lie) but if he was lying when he said that, then you're screwed.



Originally posted by bmorebirdflu reply to post by rhinoceros
 
God dosnt kill.



Read your bible. Remember the 10 plagues of Egypt. That was god killing people - that was god committing infanticide.
edit on 17-4-2011 by Welfhard because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by rhinoceros
 


Because God is on my side. This is like asking why you are on your mothers side or your fathers side. Because this is where you came from and you know it. Some people just don't know it and others simply don't care. God or not - they respect no one. I like to sit back and watch those people crumble and fall under the weight of their own "knowledge." The higher they rise the harder they fall and then we see their stories on a television show called GREED.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:01 AM
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I agree, OP, Satan never did anything against mankind, did he? I cannot really see, in the face of the fact that the Bible has been translated so many times, and altered so many times, and coupled with that there is no evidence that a man named Jesus ever lived at all, how anyone who calls themselves a Christian can eve still say it's the "word of God.?" And that Jesus, an obvious English name, is his son, God on Earth? I also fail to understand why Christians tend to label EVERYTHING not biblical as "Demons?" In another post me and someone else posted the origin of the word "demon," but it does no good to do this, because some just will not seek out word origins, they act like English was the original language. Satan, Lilith, and Lucifer all got a bad rap, I think.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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God (as per our fine religious texts) is quite the violent killing machine, and therefore my choice to believe in Leprechauns and Unicorns instead.

I am much more at peace as a result of my new faith.

To hell with both God and Satan. Leprechauns and Unicorns make more sense anyways then those two degenerates from the bible.




edit on 17-4-2011 by pplrnuts because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Swissdom
According to the Bible, satan IS evil. (Read, for example, Isaiah 14:12-20)

He is a deceiver, instilling doubt, calling God a liar.

Jesus said "He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (Joh 8:44, NIV)

I chose Jesus, because he is the way, the truth, and the life!


That's right and satan is the one who seeks to kill,steal and destroy,Jesus come to give life more abundantly



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Swissdom
According to the Bible, satan IS evil. (Read, for example, Isaiah 14:12-20)

Perhaps you're the one who should be doing the reading. This passage is describing the fallen king of Babylon, not Satan.



Jesus said "He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (Joh 8:44, NIV)

Knowing God's malicious nature (as described in the Bible) I don't think it's too far fetched to think that God is simply lying here..



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by rhinoceros
 


Because God is on my side. This is like asking why you are on your mothers side or your fathers side. Because this is where you came from and you know it. Some people just don't know it and others simply don't care. God or not - they respect no one. I like to sit back and watch those people crumble and fall under the weight of their own "knowledge." The higher they rise the harder they fall and then we see their stories on a television show called GREED.


For the sake of debate
Personally I'm on my parents side because I know they are real. I see them everyday. I don't blindly believe in something I haven't saw with my own eyes, or go with something that was conjured up thousands of years ago because of a group of people. (more than likely the illuminati)
There are always voices in my head just like any other person. It's how you choose to take them and thats everyones choice.
I'm a realist and a good person with morales, just not a religous believer in Jesus Christ or the image they have of him or high and mighty god. I believe there is a higher power that gave us the gift of life.
Not caring is not researching and I, myself have done very little research on christianity and can figure out there are more holes than facts.

your turn



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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lol
it seems we have one or more of these threads daily
around ATS. This is nothing more than blasphemy
of God. Just another niche trying to siphon Christians
of their faith. Not me, I ain't biting.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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God created everything, including both sides of the argument.

Peace



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by rhinoceros
 




Also, if after reading the above you're still on God's side, then why aren't you being a good Christian and doing everything in your power to end up in Hell, so that you might get a chance to kill Satan? If this isn't your aim, then you're not a true enemy of Satan.


Really?

I was going to answer your questions very logically and thoughtfully, but I read this part and realized I was dealing with someone with the IQ of a six year old

You can't honestly think you can physically fight the devil right? God and the devil fight for influences on your soul, but ultimately you always have the final choice

Please educate yourself and open a bible up because I'm afraid you don't have the slightest clue what your talking about

I can assure you there are many more answers there than you will find in this thread

Peace, and much love to you



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
lol
it seems we have one or more of these threads daily
around ATS. This is nothing more than blasphemy
of God. Just another niche trying to siphon Christians
of their faith. Not me, I ain't biting.


I believe the thread, if im not mistaking, it called called 'a simple question to christians'. Seems fair enough right?
Indeed there are people on this forum that have strong feelings against popular religion, but I believe a lot are of good nature as well. Christianity, being as huge as its gotten up to today, should be researched and questioned, and debated.
We are all adults here, well most of us.
Talking up christianity is like saying donky kong is the best video game ever..
Your turn



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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There's no way to have a standard view of God and Satan's relationship universally through the bible when different parts were written at vastly different times reflecting very different beliefs. It really wasn't until Zoroastrian influence came into the religion that Satan gained an individuality and an evil autonomy from god - as people believed anyway.


reply to post by opnureyes
 


You're subjective opinion on the best video game ever is objectively wrong.

ZELDA IZ DA BESTIST!
edit on 17-4-2011 by Welfhard because: to make post actually relevant to thread >_>



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by Welfhard
 


Valid point good sir, and noted.
I go about most things with an open mind and a welcome heart with a little bit of skepticism sprinkled on top.
From what I've seen around the net and from first hand experience, many people have been bread to not question the teachings of religion which I think is depressing.

btw, Zelda=subpar at best, FACE



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by rhinoceros
 


Way to offer up another perspective without resorting to ridicule.

I don't think that pursuing a life of evil to be condemned to hell would be the way to be rid of Satan. How would one even have that power after death. He still exists because he is performing a function and will exist until it's decided that his purpose has been fulfilled. Surprisingly, Satan is proving people's worth to the Lord. Even in the face of all of his influence/coaxing/tempting, there are still people who choose to stand upright rather than give in to selfish desires. I'm not claiming that I do, everyonce in a while maybe, but I am primarily selfish in nature and strive for my own personal gain.

Sucks with what happened to Job. Kind of knocked him down a few pegs though didn't it. The point of that whole thing was that we as humans can't understand the Lord's intent. Who are we to assume that even if we do nothing wrong and everything right that we're ENTITLED to anything. Man is saved by grace, not by works.

I kind of contradicted myself by trying to reason why Satan exists. It's not my call, but that's my view.

To answer your question about why I would follow God is that I have the fear of God. Sure, I also rely on His grace an mercy, but ultimately He's the one that I answer to and it would be foolish for me to play on the other side.

I'd rather suffer my entire life than to have everything I could ever want while I'm alive considering the eternal stipulations that both the former and ladder bring.

Sorry, ladders bring a way to get up the side of a building. *Latter*






edit on 17-4-2011 by ncoic because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by zroth
 


Very nice....



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by zroth
God created everything, including both sides of the argument.

Peace


.....Very nice....double posted, I didn't know how to 'quote'



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by rhinoceros
 


And who raised you to think punishment is evil??
and who raised you to believe that manipulation is not?

if you aren't going to be honest with yourself about what
is right and wrong, then how could we believe the intent of your
Thread here is honest in nature?

you and most other people continually fail to see the point
because you selfishly focus on the pain instead of the reason for it.

we must learn to take responsibility for our actions at all times!
If we wish to be godlike, then that is how! Not by eating a piece of fruit!

But just like Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the serpent,
You blame God for what is wrong in your life...
But in reality it is up to you to take responsibility for your life
Especially if you are one who is willing to pass blame.

Like babies we dig our graves and then blame God for allowing
ItTo happen or for not making it better...

Like babies our parents have led us to believe that love
is about keeping us from suffering the consequences of our actions
Instead of allowing us to grow...

And now instead of appreciating how little you've been
Allowed to suffer truly, you throw it back in their faces
By valuing satan over God?

Your entire post is inaccurate, combative, ignorant, and childish.

If you want the truth, then you must suffer to seek it!
But do not seek the truth that feels good, but seek the truth
That challenges you to be a better human being.

step one is to suffer yourself humbly.
step two is to see how everyone else is better than you.
Step three is to do good honestly without a thought of personal
gain or who is watching.
Step four is to learn to do step three in the face of
All the evil inside everyone telling you not to because
"it won't benefit you" (because people who think they
Are all grown up are actually just old people with childish
Self defense mechanisms and manipulations.)

step five is for you to not use these things you've learned
Thus far to your future gain, but do not "sell your soul".

you should be able to figure the following steps out on your own
IfYou actually choose to grow.

but at the least, do not so willfully spread your ignorance as
There are more people than are willing to admit who see your flaw...

and if you knew that, you'd feel awfully naked right now.



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