The Roman Empire Collapsed Under the Weight of Illegal Immigration and Welfare...

I've been watching the History Channel biographies on Attila the Hun.

The Huns and other barbarians were the illegal immigrants roaming through the Eastern and Western halves of the Roman Empire.

Rome thought they could bribe Attila to take it easy on their territories. They offered Atilla a whole lot of welfare. The more welfare Rome offered Attila, the more Attila laughed at Rome as having grown weak.

Attila did his fair share to take apart the Roman Empire.

So, looks like history repeating itself. Will we today learn a lesson from Attila?


History Channel Decisive Battles Attila The Hun Part 1 of 2 ...History Channel Decisive Battles Attila The Hun Part 1 of 2. Category: Video – Tags: Attila, battles, Channel, Decisive, History, Part – admin – 2:35 pm ...
www.official-down.info/history-channel-decisive-battles-attila-the-hun-part-1 -of-2/

Oh c'mon now. Do a little more research than that. The fall of the Roman empire is way more complex than "welfare and illegal immigration". I had to do a paper on it in college. You should go to a library and read up on it - the fall of the Roman Empire is very interesting.

Originally posted by DevilJin

Oh c'mon now. Do a little more research than that. The fall of the Roman empire is way more complex than "welfare and illegal immigration". I had to do a paper on it in college. You should go to a library and read up on it - the fall of the Roman Empire is very interesting.

Oh, so you watched the entire History Channel biography of Attila the Hun in...what....like three minutes?

And you're telling me to do more research?

Thanks. I needed that laugh.

Originally posted by fredvcall

Originally posted by DevilJin

Oh c'mon now. Do a little more research than that. The fall of the Roman empire is way more complex than "welfare and illegal immigration". I had to do a paper on it in college. You should go to a library and read up on it - the fall of the Roman Empire is very interesting.

Oh, so you watched the entire History Channel biography of Attila the Hun in...what....like three minutes?

And you're telling me to do more research?

Thanks. I needed that laugh.

I've watched that junk when I was a kid. I saw the History Channel version of Attila the Hun and the fall of the Roman Empire.

I'm not trying to insult you here but the History Channel has NO credibility. It's all Hollywood.

Again, I say go to a library and research. It is really fascinating history.


There is no need for you to cop an attitude here.

The decline of the Roman Empire refers to the societal collapse encompassing both the gradual disintegration of the political, economic, military, and other social institutions of Rome and the barbarian invasions that were its final doom in Western Europe.

The decline of the Roman Empire is one of the events traditionally marking the end of Classical Antiquity and the beginning of the European Middle Ages. Throughout the 5th century, the Empire's territories in western Europe and northwestern Africa, including Italy, fell to various invading or indigenous peoples in what is sometimes called the Migration period.

'
en.wikipedia.org...


now does that sound familar? bueller? bueller? bueller?


it fits and it is as plausible as it gets history is repeating itself.

Originally posted by DevilJin
Again, I say go to a library and research. It is really fascinating history.


There is no need for you to cop an attitude here.

Moi with the attitude? You say the History Channel has no credibility?

Well, okay. You have the floor. Discredit the History Channel with your set of facts. Tell us your version of Attila the Hun's military and political conquests throughout the Roman Empire.

Those aren't the reasons Rome fell. And yes, you do need to do more research if all you're basing your claims are that one history channel show. Rome always gave "welfare" to people they conquered. That's how they were successful in building such a large empire in the first place. There are many reasons why Rome fell, the least of which is welfare.

Originally posted by Ghost375
Those aren't the reasons Rome fell. And yes, you do need to do more research if all you're basing your claims are that one history channel show. Rome always gave "welfare" to people they conquered. That's how they were successful in building such a large empire in the first place. There are many reasons why Rome fell, the least of which is welfare.

And, so, what do you know of Attila the Hun's life? Give us your version of history. We're listening.

reply to post by fredvcall


The history channel IS a joke. Ancient Aliens, need I say more?

Originally posted by neo96

The decline of the Roman Empire refers to the societal collapse encompassing both the gradual disintegration of the political, economic, military, and other social institutions of Rome and the barbarian invasions that were its final doom in Western Europe.

The decline of the Roman Empire is one of the events traditionally marking the end of Classical Antiquity and the beginning of the European Middle Ages. Throughout the 5th century, the Empire's territories in western Europe and northwestern Africa, including Italy, fell to various invading or indigenous peoples in what is sometimes called the Migration period.

'
en.wikipedia.org...


now does that sound familar? bueller? bueller? bueller?


it fits and it is as plausible as it gets history is repeating itself.

edit on 15-4-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Sure. Migration. Immigration. The narrative comes out pretty much the same both in Rome and in America today.

Originally posted by fredvcall

Originally posted by Ghost375
Those aren't the reasons Rome fell. And yes, you do need to do more research if all you're basing your claims are that one history channel show. Rome always gave "welfare" to people they conquered. That's how they were successful in building such a large empire in the first place. There are many reasons why Rome fell, the least of which is welfare.

And, so, what do you know of Attila the Hun's life? Give us your version of history. We're listening.

I didn't say I knew anything about Attila the Hun. But I know alot about ancient Rome. I've studied Latin for five years.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by fredvcall

Originally posted by Ghost375
Those aren't the reasons Rome fell. And yes, you do need to do more research if all you're basing your claims are that one history channel show. Rome always gave "welfare" to people they conquered. That's how they were successful in building such a large empire in the first place. There are many reasons why Rome fell, the least of which is welfare.

And, so, what do you know of Attila the Hun's life? Give us your version of history. We're listening.

I didn't say I knew anything about Attila the Hun. But I know alot about ancient Rome. I've studied Latin for five years.

Okay, let's focus here. The topic is Attila the Hun, Roman Welfare and Illegal Immigration problems. You say you don't know anything about Attila the Hun? What would you like to learn about Attila?

reply to post by fredvcall


According to the title, this thread is about the collapse of Rome was because of illegal immigration and welfare.
If you wanted this to be a discussion of Attila, put his name in the title. You obviously created this thread with enormous bias.
What Attila did wasn't illegal immigration.
What the romans did was called bribing, not welfare.

Illegal immigration and welfare are the least of America's problems, just like in ancient Rome.

There are many books about the downfall of Rome. Read them if you really want to know about it.

it doesnt really matter how rome fell, the fact is, empires rise and fall.. thats just the way it is..
history always repeats itself, and eveything goes around in cycles..
the roman empire, british empire, the mongol empire, the greeks, eyptians, russians, etc... all rose and fell..
imo america was the empire of our most recent history... so, its only a matter of time... and its possible the allies of europe will go down too..

Wasn't christianity a major factor in the fall of the Roman empire ? ( I'm no historian ) Also The empire got split into two , an east and west version which created massive political and military problems. I've often thought they decided that the upkeep of the army was too costly and complicated and instead came up with The Roman catholic church. Much easier to control people via psychology than with an army.

My main point is that yes they fell but turned into something more insideous and possibly more powerfull - Catholicism's lasted longer than the Roman empire. Well done Constantine !

Originally posted by Misterlondon
it doesnt really matter how rome fell, the fact is, empires rise and fall.. thats just the way it is..
history always repeats itself, and eveything goes around in cycles..
the roman empire, british empire, the mongol empire, the greeks, eyptians, russians, etc... all rose and fell..
imo america was the empire of our most recent history... so, its only a matter of time... and its possible the allies of europe will go down too..

edit on 15/4/11 by Misterlondon because: (no reason given)

"The only thing history has to teach us is no one ever learns from history." The Human Situation by Aldous Huxley

I agree with you that America has in deed created an Empire, but we did it in such a strange way. Usually countries tell their citizens that they're creating an empire. Our leaders never did that. It's a pretty unique situation unlike any in history. But it does have many similarities to Rome.
Rome fell because of many factors. Every reason that pops up here, likely played some role in the downfall. Sort of like how America has many problems right now; they're all going to lead to our downfall. You could even say were already on the way down.

Welfare is never a reason for collapse and here's why:
When the poor people are hungry and not helped out a little bit, they will riot. This will lead to an immediate collapse of a country.

The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

It's a free book you can read online and, I have to tell you that Attila is a cow burp in the greater story. A BIG burp, yes, but a burp nonetheless.

Here's what really happened in a nutshell:

The empire was great at one time. They had a system of internal and external territorial governance that made them great. A strong army would invade new lands, but, instead of destroying them completely, they would allow them to carry on their 'provincial' governments as they always did, with the exception that the Roman army would control their borders and not allow them to have their own armies.

This worked really well for quite a while, but the problems started when they enlisted those worthy soldiers into the ranks of the legions. There were Saxons, Franks, Goths, Vandals, Britans, Burgundians, Saracens, Slavs, Greeks, Persians and all sorts of others... none of who trusted each other nor could they be trusted by Rome.

It got so bad that the Pretorian Guard itself, the main army of the city, could no longer be trusted.

As a result, the Empire could not hold the territories it had. The Eastern half split from the west and we are seeing that split today. As Rome became Christian, the east eventually became Muslim while the west remained Christian.

Attila was a great conquerer, uniting Scythia and Germania. His battles, with their help, subdued eastern empire with an army of around 600,000. They ruthlessly depopulated those provinces. With the help of the Thuringians, they invaded the western territories of the Franks and were equally merciless there, but the Visigoths helped Rome defeat Attilas army at Chalons, so the diplomatic treaties and money offerings started up.

The really interesting thing was that Attila was afraid of the Christian God, St. Peter and St. Paul. This is what saved Rome from one of the most successful campaigners of it's time and it wasn't long after that when he died.

Moral of the story? You can't trust mercenaries.

reply to post by fredvcall


It's actually more complex than you think.

You didn't take into account the fact that the U.S polices the world, hence our involvement in 3 conflicts all at once (Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya).

Nice trick there on pushing the birther/Tea Party line of cutting social programs/clamping down on borders.