Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

reply to post by SLAYER69


So you don't have any evidence either as to who carried out these attacks?

Me I like the Mossad for it.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Anyone who is grotesquely misguided and delusional enough to believe or defend that there are ANY legitimate justifications for killing Children FOR ANY reason is mentally ill and should have their mental faculties [thought, volition, feeling and memory] as well as their moral, ethical and intellectual compass evaluated.

Ah wasn't it the God of the Hebrews that demanded one of his followers sacrifice his son on an alter in an act of violence to him?

So are we really going to pretend that the idea of who did I say 'might' also be responsible for this attack, oh that's right Hebrews is that absurd.

What is actually a form of denial is the people who subscribe to such religions pretending that their subscribtion and belief in such religions really doesn't lead to the kind of zealotry that would minimize the life of a child to do 'god's' will.

Honestly my friend, I could care less how many people band together to try to bandy about insults that go right over me like water on a duck.

I consider the source.

That's the whole problem here, none of you are capable of considering the source because all of you are in denial about what's at the base of these religions you are all fighting over.

So if the God of these people could glorify the killing of a child by his parent then I would say it's safe to say that some of them might subscribe to it quite literally.

Now of course it was the very Patriarch of the Hebrew religion that was willing to kill his own young son with a knife to please God.

So if we are to believe that today no Jew would do that, that this part of the Bible is not valid, how then does the part of the Bible where God 'Gave the Land of Israel' to the Jews that is often evoked by Zionists in the justification of their own crimes against children valid?

The Patriarch of the Jewish religion would kill his own child to please God but the Mossad wouldn't?

And it's Proto who is the crazy one huh?

reply to post by SLAYER69

Anyone who is grotesquely misguided and delusional enough to believe or defend that there are ANY legitimate justifications for killing Children FOR ANY reason is mentally ill and should have their mental faculties [thought, volition, feeling and memory] as well as their moral, ethical and intellectual compass evaluated.

Agreed. Religious justification is one of the most heinous, as it stems from a fundamental belief in right and wrong. Time and again, that belief system can be shown to be so easily twisted to justify humanity's actions. Time and again we see children pay. Very sad.

reply to post by LadySkadi


You know it's really odd, but I missed almost everyone participating in this thread lamenting the INJURY of an Israeli child with great venhom on this thread...

Nato aka (American Helicopter gunships) Murder Nine Children Collecting Wood.,

Nine children shot to peices, their parents had to search for their body parts as the heavy gunfire tore them to bits, many limbs and heads could not be recovered, HERE but hey they did apologise.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Which is quite odd since a whole veritible virtual gang has become interested in this thread days after publication with an abundunce of concern for one injured child, but were conspicuoulsy absent from the thread above where it was the US Military with a helicopter gunship that had killed nine children gathering wood .

Anyway I am sure now that I have provided the link all the people concerned for the children of the world here will want to leave similiar comments there denouncing the perpatrators and anyone percieved to be defending them!

Sometimes its not so much what people say but what they don't say and where they don't say it.

What are you talking about, gang? Making my feeling known with regards to religious zealotry, child endangerment and life in a tumultuous area has nothing to do with "a perceived gang" stalking you. I (and others) are supposed to somehow catch every thread on this board? Get off the high horse, my response was not to you.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
What are you talking about, gang? Making my feeling known with regards to religious zealotry, child endangerment and life in a tumultuous area has nothing to do with "a perceived gang" stalking you. I (and others) are supposed to somehow catch every thread on this board? Get off the high horse, my response was not to you.

Forgive me for not responding to the OFF TOPIC part of your POST.

I see you are touched by the deaths of the nine children and the condolences you just offered were very touching.

I am sure their families will be touched by your out pouring of sympathy.

I for one have stated numerous times that children being hurt or killed or targeted is a real tragedy.

Yet for some reason that's gone largely overlooked by a group of posters who have trouble talking about the actual event and possible conspiracies involved in it.

It sure is fortunate you managed to find this thread on your own.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Dude, you are grasping at ANYTHING now and it's *really* making you look bad...if not totally insane at this point.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Dude, you are grasping at ANYTHING now and it's *really* making you look bad...if not totally insane at this point.

Any way as far as responding to the non-existent ON TOPIC PART OF YOUR POST?????

Have you had any luck in researching the MOSSAD's funding and founding of Hamas as suggested.

There is a wealth of information on it out there.

Also you should research Operation Suzanna and the US Liberty to get a feel for how Israel sometimes attacks allies and tries to pin it on Arabs.

reply to post by facelift


I see you managed to find the thread on your own too.

Responding to the non-existent On-Topic parts of your post will be hard but let me pretend you had something on-topic to say!

I find it peculiar on threads dealing with Israel how difficult it is to keep people focused on the subject matter, which in this case is a bus attack carried out in occupied Israel by unknown elements.

Previously I stated the following...

Well one of the problems with the CIA led and funded uprisings in the Arab world is that an accidental byproduct is going to be more and more mounting pressure within Gaza and likely the West Bank too, to rise up against their Israeli oppressors and occupiers.

A signifigant portion of the land Israel is occupying it is doing so in violation of UN Accords and keeps looking to acquire more by hook or by crook, so while yes some of those occupiers are school children, their parents have more or less put them in harms way by seeking to occupy stolen land, while supporting a state that terrorizes the people who once owned it, after herding them into enclaves where they are basically imprisoned as near rightless individuals.

Yes it sucks that the innocent are the one's most often killed but that really is just a byproduct of the guilty not wanting to fess up to their crimes, atone and make ammends.

As long as Israelis want to live on stolen land, they probably will be subject to violent reprisals by the previous and rightful owners.

Go figure.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That comment recieved thirteen stars and a whole host of angry to dishonest criticism from some very off topic posters not focused on the subject matter at all.

Any chance you have a comment on the subject matter or my original post which I have posted in it's entirety to make sure it doesn't get lost in the translation of paraphrasing.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That comment recieved thirteen stars and a whole host of angry to dishonest criticism from some very off topic posters not focused on the subject matter at all.


Well, there is the rub dude...you claim people go off topic, call them out on it, and then cry foul when someone else does the same thing.


Quite a few people agree with a lot of what you say, I'm one of them...but as soon you feel slighted, you begin to cheerlead yourself and claim everyone is against you.


That is NOT the case Proto...you can spin it any way you want, I'm just pointing out that you are off topic quite a bit yourself.


As to the topic at hand, your point about:

As long as Israelis want to live on stolen land, they probably will be subject to violent reprisals by the previous and rightful owners.


Spot on...I see the issue for what it is and agree that Israel has isolated those they deem a threat (everyone?), and taken away a majority of the dignity those people once had, as they fight for survival upon a land that is just as much theirs, if not more than the piece of crap Zionists ruling it.

And it is indeed a byproduct...unfortunately.


But this has become a side issue as once again the thread become about you and not the subject matter brought forward by the OP.


It never stops with you guy...though it should, and in more than one way.

reply to post by facelift


Actually lets not pretend here, if you read the 2nd and 3rd pages of the thread you can see a certain very ugly form of behavior take place.

Lets not pretend that the people who are following this thread presently to where 15 stars can be generated in as many minutes are doing so for any other reason than I am here and we are playing the insult proto game.

Here is where your argument falls apart, the constant off topic posts being made by those who are virtually just posting to insult me aren't really worthy of following a thread unless your interest is seeing proto insulted.

I personally find it flattering!

It also happens to be what is happening.

But thanks for making some attempt to be on topic, if it takes people insulting me to highlight the importance of these issues and learning about things like how the MOSSAD helped found Hamas then that's cool with me.

I appreciate you making some attempt to participate ligitimately in the thread but the truth remains is we all know what's going on presently, why who is here, why who is posting what.

There has been one honest poster to the thread all day, and that's the Wookie fellow who has been invovled for a few days and at least makes some attempts to debate honestly.

Everyone else...

Nyet!

In a way this thread is in a nutshell very much like the situation in Israel.

People conspiring to carry out an agenda while claiming that those they are carrying it out on are crazy.

I think that's a very valuable thing for people to understand regarding the topic of Israel.

The very people who want to be trusted, and listened to, are prone to using unseemly tactics to try to intimidate people to silence or agreement, and then they tend to conspire to go after that lone person who won't buckle under.

All the while overlooking or denying exactly what they are doing even though it's fairly obvious to anyone not taking part in the conspiracy.

So who are such people fooling really?

No one but themselves.

Meanwhile the invasion of those who want to insult and pretend it's not a coordinated attack to do just that, does take the thread off topic, even while they deny they are doing it, even though the off topic posts and insults and ad hominen attacks all speak for themselves.

The funny thing about conspirators is they all feel brilliant in a vacuum where no one is looking or trying to ferret out their conspiracy, and often do believe they are that clever.

Up until the perp walk and then it all changes.

When it comes to Israel conspiring to carry out false flag attacks they have been caught red handed with their hand in the cookie jar lots of time.

Discussing that shouldn't be a crime, and someone discussing that really doesn't justify the insults that started flowing fast and furious on page two of this thread.

Grow up people.

It's your world that is falling apart on you.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You can keep going on with your gibberish as much as you want. But if we go back to the beginning of this post the main issue was the bus attack by Hamas.

Then you ignorantly decided to say it was not the Hamas but Israeli propaganda in the media (while not bringing any avidance to back your statement). Eventually sufficient evidence came to light from news organizations both Pro Arab and Western, including an official statement on the Hamas website taking responsibility.

Once you were proven wrong, instead of shutting up and owning up to your mistake. You changed your argument (sorry a few posts of gibberish first) and said that if it was Hamas then it was the Israelis since they are the ones who created Hamas (first you defended Hamas now suddenly they are an Israeli creation). Again offering us no evidence to your foolish accusations.


And after being ripped apart on that statement and looking like (excuse my French) a fool. You turned the topic into a racist rant throwing out every ignorant slur about the jews and isrealis you could come up with, including but not limited to Abraham and the bible.
All to cover up one stupid statement you made in the beginning.

So after hours you spent writing your long letters. You are left with your friends being embarrassed by your answers, a bunch of people who just don’t take you seriously, and the ones who did don’t anymore.

You landed with your face in the Dirt no matter how you try to philosophize your way out of it. So I suggest that you spend the next few days picking the grass and sand from between your teeth and taking a long rest.
Dracula out

reply to post by CountDrac


I post on Above Top Secret dot com because it is a CONSPIRACY site, don't want to discuss conspiracies with conspiracy minded people then you are on the wrong web site.

You chose to not talk about the conspiratorial elements but to instead simply denounce conspiracy theorists even attributing some conspiracies to me that I don't even subscribe to by form of an insult.

Then you told me I was forbidden to post on your thread.

So what do you want me to tell you besides you have utterly failed to intimidate me and the only thing you have going for you right now is a small conspiracy by some rivals and a dozen or so people here on ATS known to band together at times when they can isolate me on a thread like this that is no longer fresh news from a topical standpoint.

The only thing that has prohibited qulaity discussion is your reliance on insult of the site, conspiracy theorists, me and anyone who doesn't agree with you, that and the other off topic posters who chose to pile on.

I have throughout not responded to these crude attempts, and kept on discussing the conspiracy aspects of the thread here on a conspiracy site.

I have done so within the terms of service and for the most part been on topic while trying to respond to posts that have been largely off topic and not within the terms of service.

I have held my ground in the face of it all and kept my cool and remained true to the spirit of the site and the terms of service and all I have to say is shame on anyone who hasn't.

There is reason to suspect Israeli involvement in the attack including and up to the fact that Hamas may be infilitrated by agents of the Mossad.

So whether it was a Mossad agent posing as a Hamas member or a Mossad agent period it's plausible that the Mossad is behind the attack.

I can't prove that they are, you can't prove that they aren't.

You can't prove who really carried out the attack because you can't even name a suspect.

In a court of law having an actual named defendent becomes pretty crucial to establishing guilt for a crime.

Israel has rather than try to bring the actual attacker to justice has chosen to respond by killing innocent civilians in an arial bombardment, so not only is Israel carrying out illegal collective punishment against the people of Gaza it has clearly not been able to find a suspect either.

That might very well be because it was a Mossad Agent that carried out the attack.

Talking about these kinds of things is what ATS is all about and if you lack the maturity or demeanor to do that within the terms of service and with a civilized degree of decorum that is entirely on you and your fault not mine.

Thanks.

Well maybe, hundreds of years in the future, when 10 million isrealis have been killed, and 100 million palestinians have been killed, they will tear down the wall and learn to live together. Probably just an optimistic thought though....

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I believe what should be kept in mind is that every angle should be considered when we are presented with these emotionally charged topics. This is a touchy one as children are involved. This one really tugs on the heart strings. In this day and age, who can say for a certainty who is right and who is wrong?

There is no better site than this one to present alternative theories to hot topics. It is called a conspiracy site still isn't it? Or is it called let's jump on the emotional bandwagon that the headlines want us to? It wouldn't be beyond reason to see that some would even question whether the event even took place at all on this site. That's what is done here.

I guess if some people want to exclaim that this is a diseased thought process than maybe this isn't the place to pick up your news.

Bernays also pioneered the PR industry's use of psychology and other social sciences to design its public persuasion campaigns. "If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind," he wrote, "is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits." (Propaganda, 2005 ed., p. 71.) He called this scientific technique of opinion-molding the "engineering of consent."

www.sourcewatch.org...

War propaganda is that branch of public relations devoted to manipulating people's attitude toward a war or war in general, rather than engaging in open dialogue. It includes both pro-war propaganda, by governments and war industrialists, and anti-war propaganda by pacifists or enemy sympathizers. What makes it propaganda isn't the sincerity or insincerity of its originators but its methods of media manipulation, going beyond lies to misdirection, loaded vocabulary, staged events, and fallacious demagoguery, all of which can be justified/rationalized by a 'good' cause, whether patriotic or idealistic. To be fully effective, war propaganda requires the compliance of a nation's journalism establishment and its willingness to curtail its role as watchdog and become a lapdog, passing on government propaganda. For a recent example in the United States from 2002 to 2008, see the Pentagon military analyst program.

www.sourcewatch.org...

It was the fight for the minds of men, for the "conquest of their convictions," and the battle-line ran through every home in every country. It was in this recognition of Public Opinion as a major force that the Great War differed most essentially from all previous conflicts. The trial of strength was not only between massed bodies of armed men, but between opposed ideals, and moral verdicts took on all the value of military decisions. ... In all things, from first to last, without halt or change, it was a plain publicity proposition, a vast enterprise in salesmanship, the world's greatest adventure in advertising. There was no part of the great war machinery that we did not touch, no medium of appeal that we did not employ.

www.sourcewatch.org...

reply to post by jackflap


Excellent post Jackflap as you illustrate propaganda isn't so much or always defined by the accuracy of the information but how the information is presented.

Most often it is propaganda when it's presented in a way that is designed to play on the emotions.

Intellectually the challenge is to not let emotions cloud your judgement when you trying to annalyze a situation or occurence.

So there really are no brownie points for an emotional melt down, well unless, you are involved in a propaganda effort where you try to get the reader, listener or viewer to mirror your emotional state.

Walter Cronkite was never angry when delivering the news, today it seems all of our newscasters are angry.

Angry about this, angry about that, they vissibly display that anger, why? Because they want their audience to be angry too.

Yet how often have any of us, all of us, when angry at a lover, a spouse, a child, boss, employee, friend etc, reacted emotionally and poorly and then later when you had time to think it through and review all the facts realized you were wrong, and regreted the things you said or did in anger?

In a lot of ways it's like our own media doesn't want us to ever get out from under the ether of anger, or to think rationally with the intellect but just to react to their emotional cues.

Todays news stories contain almost no fact, just a brief summary and editorial absent the who, what, when, how and where of classic journalism.

Something I tried to point out early on in this thread were woefully absent in the stories on this story.

The response from many members too many members on a site like ATS that is designed for critical minds was "Who cares, kids got hurt!"

Personally I especially care because kids are hurt, because justice is not served by angry assumptions.

A decade after 9-11 many Americans are still unsure about who carried out 9-11, because of the absence of facts, holes in the story, lack of trials, lack of people being charged, and too often when people try to redress this it's met by a wall of anger, that same 'who cares, the Muslims did it!, don't you dare question it, this crime is so horrible'.

It's the extreme horor of the crime that dictates it should be questioned that our standards of justice should be met, yet the media personalities angrily denounce anyone with question as 'crazy conspiracy theorists, insulting the families of the victims with their questions'.

Anger to mask inquiry, anger to confront anyone who won't submit to a mass process and go along.

That's not how Americans used to be, not back in Cronkites day when I was young.

We were mature enough to handle hard topics, hard decisions, and cared enough to want to know the real, who, what, when, where and how.

Today that's practically a crime in and of itself.

What happened to this thread?
Oh, yeah, the "children" were sacrificed...brutally murdered...again. But, they were Israeli, so....

I believe this is a daily occurrence. Children, being slaughtered. Just not so much the Israeli children. (Is that comment cruel?)

Globally it happens so much, humans may as well be chickens. It seems some humans are more "chicken" than others, because not a whole lot is said about the vast majority of children that die daily at the hands of a relative few people with the ability to kill masses of people. Including CHILDREN.

I DO believe Americans keep funding the wars overseas. Am I right? Who dies?

Whom possesses this ability to kill children? No, not just the Israelis, there are a host of others. The great American killers come to mind... and Uncle Mao, Brother Adolf, those African puppets whose names elude me at the moment, distant cousins all.

But, the Israelis work very hard to create and preserve a "victim" status, so that any attack on them will appear unwarranted and unprovoked. Their children are GOD'S children.
When Ghaddafi's daughter was murdered, I am sure many tears were shed. But, not many in the west. I will not speculate on how many tears were shed by the leaders of Israel, because SO many here equate critical analysis of Israel with an attack on Jews. (Good work Israel!)

And here, on this thread, it is reported that a teen was critically wounded. Not exactly earth shattering, teeth gnashing news people. Look closer to home, look at yourself. You probably have blood on your hands that you are ignoring. In fact, I would bet on it.

But, I CAN be abrasive at times.