Trump sends investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama !!

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

That's not a long form

Not every american citizen including the woman above has a long form birth certificate. Like the examples above, when they apply for a birth certificate, they receive those two examples. I know of plenty of my own relatives who do not have long form birth certificates, doesn't mean they have anything to hide. None of the previous presidents have presented long form birth certificates.

You are holding this president to your own personal standards as other birthers are and this is exactly why 73 lawsuits and 13 laws never made it through.

It'd be interested to see what Trump comes up with though, it's just another circus show.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I don't need any proof. I lived there, worked there, and the Obama family lived one street over from me. Period.

Originally posted by aero56
Ok, so what happens when all is done, and the "long form" is produced and Obama was born in Hawaii, then what? What will the birthers want next?

They'll want the REAL "long form" and not a fake like that one!

Originally posted by Jobeycool
Kinda dangerous to make the right wing look silly if you ask me.

How is Obama doing nothing about this issue making the right wing look silly? The right wing is making themselves look silly! Jeez! Where is this personal responsibility the right talks about? I guess that's only when they're talking about someone else.

Originally posted by backinblack
The BC would still show Hawaii but obviously not a hospital etc..

Just curious, if you DID see the original vault copy and there was no hospital listed, what's the next step?

reply to post by backinblack


Obama was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center, on August 4, 1961. He went to Punahou School, and he used to work at a little ice cream place right down the street from his grandparents place, and where I used to work.

Originally posted by backinblack
So the only question is why does he not want to release it??

MAYBE...

Because he doesn't have it?
Because he knows it would just FEED the birther movement and he doesn't want to do that?
Because he refuses to do more to prove himself than any other previous president?
Because he will release it when HE is ready and not at the demanding of radicals?
Because he refuses to be pressured by people who just want him out of office?
Because it's none of our business which hospital he was born in?
Because he has already released the official copy of his BC, which states Hawaii as his place of birth?

There are MANY possible reasons!

More lawyer speak, or "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

"Legal Definition of a Public Document
In general, a public document, also known as a public record, is any information that a governmental body is required to keep and that must be available for inspection by the public. There are many different types of public documents.

Vital Statistics
Records of vital statistics are public documents as well. Vital statistics records include birth certificates, death certificates, marriage certificates and divorce decrees."
www.ehow.com...

The birth certificate is a public document it is not a "private document."

Release of the "public document" is another thing. It doesn't make it a private document.

A private photo of "life time member" Barky inside the Chicago gay bath house is a private document. A birth certificate is a public document.

The first thing Barky did in office was sign an Executive Order to keep his public records out of the public domain. It does not make a birth certificate, a public document, private.

reply to post by anon72

Well I have been reluctant to post this but here we go. First off I have not seen what I am about to post anywhere. If anyone has please let me know. I want to state If I get to be missing you know where to look. Me and Obama from what I have studied have almost identical up bringing. Let me know if i have been misreading. My mother and father were married then came me. Obamas mother and father were married then came him in Kenya. My parents divorced. His parents divorce. My mother remarried. His mother remarried. I was adopted by my step father and took on his last name. He was adopted by his step father and became Barry Soetoro. My original BIRTH CERTIFICATE by federal law was sealed and vaulted for 99 yrs. Obamas original BIRTH CERTIFICATE by federal law was sealed and vaulted for 99 yrs. Now here is where it gets fluffy. My born name is sealed. His born name is sealed. He states HI has it secured. He is telling the truth. The only way to unseal the original is file court docs. wait about a year pay 150 or so bucks and hope the judge releases them to the ADOPTEE. I am pretty sure well 1000 percent sure is that no one has seen his original BIRTH CERTIFICATE because when We ADOPTEES get our original BIRTH CERTIFICATES unsealed, we are given the file in total. THERE ARE NO COPIES MADE, NO PUTTING IT BACK WHERE IT CAME FROM, IT IS IN YOUR HAND TAKE IT ITS YOURS!!!!!!!! The online version, I DONT know what it is, if it is or who it is... So what I am saying is no one not even Obama has seen his original BIRTH CERTIFICATE. So the wacky law in HI was probably used to create the copied birth certificate that everyone thinks is the for real one. Obama has not pushed the issue much because he knows he could be in major doo doo if this scenario is pushed.. So push it somebody I have done my part ...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by backinblack
So the only question is why does he not want to release it??

MAYBE...

Because he doesn't have it?
Because he knows it would just FEED the birther movement and he doesn't want to do that?
Because he refuses to do more to prove himself than any other previous president?
Because he will release it when HE is ready and not at the demanding of radicals?
Because he refuses to be pressured by people who just want him out of office?
Because it's none of our business which hospital he was born in?
Because he has already released the official copy of his BC, which states Hawaii as his place of birth?

There are MANY possible reasons!

All boils down to the same thing..
He doesn't WANT to...

sigh.....so many melt downs of late....Glenn Beck, Charlie Sheen, Fukushima, and now, The Donald. Whatever happened to intelligent public political discourse? Too bad WF Buckley's not a zombie.

but....sigh....

We must face the unpleasant fact that Buckley was an anomaly. Americans as a rule have always placed a much higher value on action over contemplation, and are generally suspicious of anyone who makes his living with his brain or, worse, flaunts his superior learning. In what other developed country could a man get elected president by playing the dumb card? Perhaps this phenomenon is a manifestation of our egalitarian creed, in which the notion of every individual's worth and potential is somehow denigrated by the contrary notion that some people are actually smarter and know better. Even as we claim to want our children to do well in school, and even as more students than ever are competing for places in college, we still engage in debasing conversations about which presidential candidate we would prefer to have a beer with. Considering the vanishingly small probability that any of us will ever actually have a beer with anyone who will ever become president, the question is not only idiotic but harmful. We're not voting for a candidate to be our friend, our neighbor or even our boss. We're voting for someone who needs to know a great deal about the nation and world, and who isn't wary of showing how much he knows for fear that people won't vote for a know-it-all.

source

Originally posted by beijingyank
More lawyer speak,

Well, we ARE talking about legal documents here. We ARE talking about the law.

Each state determines whether their birth certificates are public or private. Hawaii says they're private. Always have been.

Unlike the other documents, Hawaii birth certificates aren't public record. Only family members can request copies...

Source

The first thing Barky did in office was sign an Executive Order to keep his public records out of the public domain.

Another birther lie. The EO that Obama signed was to rescind the one that Bush signed. The one that BUSH signed was the one that limited public access to presidential records after their term. You see, Bush didn't want anyone looking into his records after he left the White House and Obama overruled that.

And Now, the Facts

In fact, Obama's first executive order had exactly the opposite goal. Its aim was to shed more light on presidential records - yes, including Obama's - after eight years of secrecy imposed by former President George W. Bush.
What Obama's First Executive Order Really Said

Executive orders are official documents, numbered consecutively, through which the president of the United States manages the operations of the federal government.

Obama's first executive order merely rescinded an earlier executive order severely limiting public access to presidential records after they left office.

That now-rescinded executive order, 13233, was signed by then-President George W. Bush on Nov. 1, 2001. It allowed former presidents and even family members to declare executive privilege and block public access to White House records for virtually any reason.

Source

I know it's lawyer speak, but it's the truth.

And the fact that you're spreading birther lies shows me that you haven't done your research and don't know anything about the actual issue. I shall waste no more time on you.

Originally posted by backinblack
All boils down to the same thing..
He doesn't WANT to...

Right (unless he just doesn't have it and can't get it). So, he doesn't want to. I don't do things I don't want to without a reason that I determine to be compelling. Do you?

Show the BC. I simply cannot understand why this is such an issue or why people are actually fighting for him not to show it. Show the BC! All we want to know is that our President was born on our soil.

Originally posted by AndrewJay
I simply cannot understand why this is such an issue or why people are actually fighting for him not to show it.

I argue this topic because I respect the privacy rights of US citizens. If I had a private document and a bunch of people wanted to see it, I would fight for my privacy rights. So, I fight for his.

He has clearly done whatever was necessary and legal at the time to prove his eligibility. No more is required by law. The law needs to be changed before we hold people accountable for following a law that doesn't exist.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Another birther lie. The EO that Obama signed was to rescind the one that Bush signed. The one that BUSH signed was the one that limited public access to presidential records after their term. You see, Bush didn't want anyone looking into his records after he left the White House and Obama overruled that.

Doesn't read like that to me..
Seems like he made it so he and Bush could stop the release of their documents..

From YOUR link...
Please correct me if I'm wrong..

(b) Upon the passage of 30 days after receipt by the incumbent and
former Presidents of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records,
the Archivist may disclose the records covered by the notice, unless during
that time period the Archivist has received a claim of executive privilege
by the incumbent or former President or the Archivist has been instructed
by the incumbent President or his designee to extend the time period for
a time certain and with reason for the extension of time provided in the
notice. If a shorter period of time is required under the circumstances

Seems to me Obama granted Bush executive privilege even after he defeated him to office..
Kinda strange..

Originally posted by backinblack
Please correct me if I'm wrong..

OK. This whole EO thing is a red herring. Here's why: These Executive Orders are referring to Presidential records that are generated BY the president's office, during the presidency. Not state records (like birth certificates), not school records, not ANY records prior to the presidency. These are NATIONAL archive records. Every president since Reagan has had this protection.

George Bush signed the first EO, with tighter constraints (more privacy) and Obama wanted to loosen up the limits, so he did, with this EO. It's almost identical to what Reagan issued.

If you don't understand something, Read more about it.

Seems to me Obama granted Bush executive privilege even after he defeated him to office..
Kinda strange..

Yes, that would be strange, wouldn't it?

Trump sends investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama !!

Sorry, can't resist:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3b11fd5a9cb.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

OK. This whole EO thing is a red herring. Here's why: These Executive Orders are referring to Presidential records that are generated BY the president's office, during the presidency. Not state records (like birth certificates), not school records, not ANY records prior to the presidency. These are NATIONAL archive records.

So why did YOU bring up this Executive Order in a thread relating to his birth certificate if it doesn't relate to personal records?

Kinda odd...

reply to post by kinda kurious


...............KK, I'm glad.........you........found resistance futile..........that is hilarious!

Originally posted by backinblack
So why did YOU bring up this Executive Order in a thread relating to his birth certificate if it doesn't relate to personal records?

I didn't bring it up! I was answering beijingyank, who brought it up. Can you not even be bothered to READ? It's on this page, for Christ's sake!

Check this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



According to West's Encyclopedia of American Law:
"A private document is any instrument executed by a private citizen.
A public document is one that is or should legally be readily available for inspection by the public, as a document issued by Congress or a governmental department."

Barky did not execute his own birth certificate. It is not a private document according to West Encyclopedia of American Law. And here is one for you, how can you or Hawaii call the birth certificate a private document when it isn't executed by Barky?

You and whoever is carrying the water for Barky in Hawaii is wrong to call a birth certificate a "private document."
I give you permission to go away. Don't go away mad, just go away with your "it all depends on what the meaning of 'is,' is."