If there is an outrage over the Koran burning the blame should be placed here.

reply to post by AshleyD

as a Christian myself (and with him being a Christian)

reply to post by sonofliberty1776

I agree, if he is truly a Christian

Seriously, quit this gibberish, it's ridiculous beyond belief. Humans are HUMANS. Not Christians or Muslims or however you choose to define your personal fantasy world. DENY IGNORANCE.

While said lunatic pastor didn't force anyone's hand to violence, his action was a provocation, which means he is to be ultimately held responsible (IMO) for purposefully escalating an already tense situation and clash of extremism. It was a stupid thing to do (even if considered free speech), burning the book, and while i do not know the true intention, i am pretty sure it was meant as an scathing insult and to set an example.

When extremists who already hate America see this type of action, even if also from a lunatic fringe, they will target Americans (& soldiers) for retaliation. Right or wrong, the provocation puts American lives at risk simply because it is an "American" who is defacing their holy book. That doesn't excuse the violence, but the idiot pastor is adding fuel to the fire and inflaming an already volatile situation where Americans are largely the target, since they are in said foreign country tearing it apart.

It's sadly ironic that the "Christians" decrying Islamic intolerance for other religions is itself intolerant of Islam and burning the Quaran. Hypocrite Pseudo-christian extremists themselves.

He has blood on his hands because he provoked a reaction from an already unstable situation, and retaliation will be directed towards Americans who are unwelcome by a large number of people in the country, simply because it was an American who burned their book.

Since it has the potential to put American lives at risk (or any life for that matter) he is responsible, even though they had a conscious choice to act or not.

reply to post by Zamini
You are quite welcome to believe as you will. Please respect our right to do the same. Either that or provide some compelling reason for me to change my belief. Thanks.

reply to post by Liquesence
The weak point in your argument is that these radicals do not need another reason to hate us. They just need an excuse to act out.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776

You are quite welcome to believe as you will. Please respect our right to do the same. Either that or provide some compelling reason for me to change my belief. Thanks.

Uhuh, I'm quite welcome to my belief you say. You are a great liar. Your belief tells you to change my belief. Your belief tells you it's your "christian duty" to do that. Your belief tells you that if I don't, I'll go to hell.

So in retrospect, you saying that I'm welcome to my belief is complete and utter bull#. Because somewhere in that sad and closed mind of yours you're going: "hi hi hi, talk all the truth you want - you're going to hell at the end of the ride anyways - neener neener".

You're not welcoming me to my belief, you're welcoming me to hell in your own head. It's ridiculous how many religious folk don't even understand themselves...

Go read if you want compelling reasons. Read and think.

Of course he must take a huge part of the blame. He knew that doing this would stir things up. To be honest, i think he wants to stir things up as i think he really wants some sort of holy war, plus he seems to love the attention he is getting. What makes it worse, is he is "a man of God" that is burning a holy book, not a music band trying to be cool.

I just don't understand how anyone can say that this man is not to blame

He has blood on his hands, and to be honest, i don't think he really cares

Originally posted by Rocky Black

Stop complaining about one guy who went out and burned a Koran.

Why? He's an attention whore who can't get attention without being a mediocre provocateur, and his actions set off a chain of events that resulted in multiple murders. And we should "stop complaining" about him at your behest?

We already all know that certain followers of Islam are violent, so this kind of reaction should not have been surprising, though you seem to be using this event as "proof" that Islam is violent. And oddly enough, you're calling for others to back off commenting about a turbo-christian who makes his religion look just as bad as Islam. I think you may be employing a double standard here. Yeah, free speech, blah blah. But I cannot easily celebrate an act of free speech wherein one inadvertently but shamelessly announces their own bigotry and idiocy by trying to point out the bigotry and idiocy of Islam.

All parties in this unfortunate event are to blame here and let us not forget to assign blame to both of the Abrahamic religions at work here that cause people to behave like savages.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by sonofliberty1776

 

You are quite welcome to believe as you will. Please respect our right to do the same. Either that or provide some compelling reason for me to change my belief. Thanks.

Uhuh, I'm quite welcome to my belief you say. You are a great liar. Your belief tells you to change my belief. Your belief tells you it's your "christian duty" to do that. Your belief tells you that if I don't, I'll go to hell.

So in retrospect, you saying that I'm welcome to my belief is complete and utter bull#. Because somewhere in that sad and closed mind of yours you're going: "hi hi hi, talk all the truth you want - you're going to hell at the end of the ride anyways - neener neener".

You're not welcoming me to my belief, you're welcoming me to hell in your own head. It's ridiculous how many religious folk don't even understand themselves...

Go read if you want compelling reasons. Read and think.

I must disagree. It is not the Christian's job to convert you. That is the job of Christ and the Holy Spirit. The Christian's job is to introduce you to Christ. However, and this is one of my failings, when I encounter those who have already closed their mind to the Lord I just let those persons live their own lives. It could be that you are one who will never accept Christ. It could be that it is just not time for you yet. I did not start on the Christian road until very recently. Prior to that I was a firm believer in the ancient astronaut theory and I also believed in esp, tarot etc... Some very serious encounters with EVIL changed my perspective. The obvious culmination of biblical prophecy provided evidence. Anyway, I lack the power to change your mind. Do you think it makes me happy that you may suffer for eternity because I cannot? If ever I wanted to be wrong about something, I would love to be wrong about hell. Though I do not believe hell is what many believe it to be. I believe "hell" is eternal separation from God. Either way, I wish "hell" on no one.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776

It could be that you are one who will never accept Christ. It could be that it is just not time for you yet.

I was schooling indoctrinated folks like you in church ceremonies at age 4. I was schooling them on how unChrist like they were behaving. So no. Sorry, that kite won't take off.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. It is going to get real bad REAL fast. Check out Aljazeera and there is absolutely NOTHING there about the recent Qur'an burning nor anything about it being linked to the riots. Aljazeera is reporting the attack being in retaliation for the killed civilians by the U.S. military. This is good IMO the longer that they can cover it up the longer they can stem back the tide of insane fundamentalist muslims taking to the street rioting and killing over a burned book.

There are going to be more excuses to kill and riot. All it takes is for someone to insult the prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) or even to simply draw a picture of him and we will see a repeat of this event. I have seen some upcoming programs that ANON (They who do not forgive, they who do not forget) is preparing to engage in that are aimed at intentionally burning massive quantities of Qur'ans and airing the videos on youtube and media sites coordinated all on the same day.

Fred Phelps latest plan, in case you have not heard, is that he is now going to put Mohammed on trial. They are going to have a trial for Mohammed just like they did the Qur'an. Get ready for some serious fireworks.

Also may 20th is Everybody Draw Mohammed Day and I am sure that will be another match thrown at the gascan.

Either the fundamentalist Muslims will learn tolerance and not do anything about it, or they are going to go completely insane and riot and kill on an unprecedented level. I just do not think that anyone has a clue how serious this situation is and how hardcore things are about to get. The longer the media can either ignore it or divert attention away from it the better. But they can only do it for so long.

Maybe a false flag operation involving an evil looking anti american extreme religious nut attacking some innocent cute peaceful moderate muslims who love America will be able to prevent the huge amount of Qur'an burnings that are staged to take place. I doubt that anything will stop Fred Phelps from his Mohammed trial though. That guy is seriously dedicated to his mission unfortunately.

reply to post by Zamini

Seriously, quit this gibberish, it's ridiculous beyond belief. Humans are HUMANS. Not Christians or Muslims or however you choose to define your personal fantasy world. DENY IGNORANCE.

Of course humans are humans. Thanks for that stunning insight.

However, when you voluntarily associate yourself with a group, as one does when they choose to follow a religion, there are certain standards connected to those teachings. In light of that, the pastor is in the wrong according to the teachings of the faith he associates with.

Your post really added nothing to this discussion and was pretty silly, IMHO.

heres some denial of ignorance for someone living in iran who is a muslim posting in a thread about some a-hole burning a koran that is the biggest difference between the east and west we dont kill or behead a person when they do it.

that is what they call a free society sure you dont have to like it like most of us dont but hey you just want to use it as an excuse to be the defender of islam so be it.

the rest of us know better i could have called you out by name but its pretty clear who are the christianity haters in this thread.


i find it hilarious to read comments how people "school" other people much like obama they are legends in their own minds.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by Liquesence

 

The weak point in your argument is that these radicals do not need another reason to hate us. They just need an excuse to act out.

Well, i suppose that pastor gave them quite a good excuse, then, huh?

2nd.

reply to post by Liquesence

If not that, they would have found another. Never underestimate the resourcefulness of evil.

reply to post by AshleyD

Of course humans are humans. Thanks for that stunning insight.

I suggest you read it again.

However, when you voluntarily associate yourself with a group, as one does when they choose to follow a religion, there are certain standards connected to those teachings.

Yes, what makes you think I don't know things a 2 year old knows? Honestly, it would be really condescending if it weren't for the fact that you're the ignorant one in this issue.

In light of that, the pastor is in the wrong according to the teachings of the faith he associates with.

In the early years that would have depended on faith.
Somewhat later that would have depended on the church.
A little while later, that would have depended on the going interpretation.
And now, it depends on the interpreter.

Your post really added nothing to this discussion and was pretty silly, IMHO.

That is because you haven't studied (your) faith thoroughly. Those who have all come to the same conclusion at the end: "stop dividing yourselves!"

reply to post by Zamini


No, sorry. Discussion doesn't work like that. I mean, if you want to come into a thread and say 'We're all just people!' then sure. Have a field day. Ultimately, you are correct. The fighting is silly when all we are at the end of the day is human. But don't expect others to adhere to it or all discussion to cease because you prefer to rant in generalities.

Certain discussions have categorical constructs. Israel and Palestine, America and Afghanistan, male and female, republican and democrat, etc.

In this case, the discussion is religious in nature by default so it is acceptable to dissect one's hypocrisy when it contradicts with the banner they're flying. Pretty simple, I thought.

Throw all the daises around all you want but don't dictate your standards to those who wish to discuss the details.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Zamini

 

No, sorry. Discussion doesn't work like that. I mean, if you want to come into a thread and say 'We're all just people!' then sure. Have a field day. Ultimately, you are correct. The fighting is silly when all we are at the end of the day is human. But don't expect others to adhere to it or all discussion to cease because you prefer to rant in generalities.

Certain discussions have categorical constructs. Israel and Palestine, America and Afghanistan, male and female, republican and democrat, etc.

In this case, the discussion is religious in nature by default so it is acceptable to dissect one's hypocrisy when it contradicts with the banner they're flying. Pretty simple, I thought.

Throw all the daises around all you want but don't dictate your standards to those who wish to discuss the details.

Ash,

It's nothing more then someone defending to the death what their preacher says but is left dumbfounded and speechless when the hypocritical and hypocrisy of it is identified because they were not programmed to respond and if they do they want to attempt to cite the mantra of lies, misinformation, diversion and deflection all to avoid the confrontation.

To others,

It is spelled Qua'Ran and not Koran and pronnouced qwa-roan and not "core-ann"!

Originally posted by neo96
heres some denial of ignorance for someone living in iran who is a muslim posting in a thread about some a-hole burning a koran that is the biggest difference between the east and west we dont kill or behead a person when they do it.

We're too busy shooting abortion doctors over here in the West.

that is what they call a free society sure you dont have to like it like most of us dont but hey you just want to use it as an excuse to be the defender of islam so be it.

Nobody should defend either Islam or Christianity. Look at the B.S. that both of these beliefs has generated in this little incident.

the rest of us know better i could have called you out by name but its pretty clear who are the christianity haters in this thread.

I hate all the Abrahamic religions. It's probably advisable not to champion one of these desert religions over the others. You'll end up aligning yourself either with book burners or decapitators.

i find it hilarious to read comments how people "school" other people much like obama they are legends in their own minds.

Some of these people actually need more schooling.

We're too busy shooting abortion doctors over here in the West.

last time i checked i and a few million others haven't shot anyone

I hate all the Abrahamic religions. It's probably advisable not to champion one of these desert religions over the others. You'll end up aligning yourself either with book burners or decapitators.

and what does your hate solve? nothing hate begets more hate and actions such as what you are claiming to hate that is the cycle.


some people may need more schooling but from which school of thought i myself am a believer of the independent school of thought and only actions that matter to me are my own but i take issue when people kill stone and behead other people who haven't done anything to them.

christianity has its flaws but it is nowhere near what islam is and i could care less if someone burns a bible or a koran or qur'an so the word nazis will shut up.

i don;t necessarily hate those people i just dont really care for them in fact i cant stand liberals or democrats but i don't go around killing and beheading them nor do i give a crap if they dont convert to the other side.

Originally posted by neo96

We're too busy shooting abortion doctors over here in the West.

last time i checked i and a few million others haven't shot anyone

I hate all the Abrahamic religions. It's probably advisable not to champion one of these desert religions over the others. You'll end up aligning yourself either with book burners or decapitators.

and what does your hate solve? nothing hate begets more hate and actions such as what you are claiming to hate that is the cycle.


some people may need more schooling but from which school of thought i myself am a believer of the independent school of thought and only actions that matter to me are my own but i take issue when people kill stone and behead other people who haven't done anything to them.

christianity has its flaws but it is nowhere near what islam is and i could care less if someone burns a bible or a koran or qur'an so the word nazis will shut up.

i don;t necessarily hate those people i just dont really care for them in fact i cant stand liberals or democrats but i don't go around killing and beheading them nor do i give a crap if they dont convert to the other side.

edit on 4-4-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

I am a centrist leaning liberal who will always put nation above and before party as when one puts party above nation we all lose. I will defend America before I defend any particular segment of policital thinking as that is the way it should be.