The Great Jesus Swindle, Greatest lie ever told.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
When the heart and mind meet in equilibrium (impossible apart form faith, hope and love), then you have found real truth and God will be right there with it. This is the jewel among the rubble of the world. Once you seek this knowledge, the pendulum begins to swing from doubt (image of man) back to faith (image of God). It eventually lands at rest and you wake form the illusion of this reality. If it is already swinging, then you are already on your way.

We agree on the process - - just not what it leads to.

I was raised Christian - - but it was missing something. I went on a 20 year search through various beliefs.

I do believe we are each an eternal consciousness as energy beings - - and that every thought is an action.

But still don't believe in a God in the religious sense.

Originally posted by notimportant


I really feel sad for narrowminded people like you who think that and say christianity is the ONLY and RIGHT religion because "jesus" or the "bible" says so, c'mon think for yourself !!

I respect your place for opinion on this matter but your statement is contradictory. You have chastised this poster for believing, what you consider, "nonsense" stating the poster is "narrowminded" and going on to state that his or her "thinking" is in error then tell him or her to "think for yourself !!"

In other words YOU'RE telling them to think a certain way yet telling them to also "think for yourself". Perhaps this poster has in fact thought this all out for his or her self and now believes they are right. Obviously you have given your world view great thought and dedication and now conclude you're correct, right?

Originally posted by notimportant
scam or not, ever considered that "Lucifer" might be the good one, and yhwh the bad one? But that yhwh just manipulated the whole thing so that it "looks like" he is the good one. Think about it, yhwh kills / lucifer does not, yhwh mongers fear / lucifer gives you everything you want, etc etc It's even written in the bible!!! But again, people are to blind to see or to afraid to think for themselves...


All those hardcore Christian people are in for a big surprise very soon !!

edit on 2-4-2011 by notimportant because: (no reason given)

It's in the Bible? May I ask where in the Scripture that is written?

Before you do please allow me to shorten the topic here. You first claim that the Scriptures are false yet you now hold them to be true in what it describes about "Lucifer"? Or are you only gleaming from it what suits your fancy?

Then your statement about hardcore christian people are in for a big surprise very soon sounds almost apocalyptic in nature, a prophecy perhaps?

By the way, Scripture states that Satan can do nothing of himself, he can only do what God allows.

Originally posted by thewanger
He's not like Muslims; who say to kill those who won't convert.

And Jesus wouldn't say "He's not like Muslims" in an attempt to incite hate towards a large religious group.

reply to post by Condemned0625

No evidence for its existence

based on the criteria used today for most "evidence",
i think i could provide satisfactory evidence.

Originally posted by soleprobe
in an attempt to incite hate towards a large religious group.

just

no really that was

oh.my.gosh

Originally posted by notimportant
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

As is said before, I don't trust the bible, it are storys written down years after the happenings and they are twisted by yhwh himself (which worked through the people, right???).

Again you have contradicted yourself here. You state you do not "trust the bible" yet you KNOW for a fact it has been "twisted by yhwh himself" and therefore your view is right. If "yhwh" has manipulated people to write a twisted version of the bible perhaps he has also manipulated people to write the books you now read which seek to deny "yhwh" for after all he is the "great deceiver"......correct?

Originally posted by notimportant




Well, luckely hell doens't excist so

You have absolute knowledge of this?

Yes I grasp it may be said in jest but for fun follow along. If you claim that "Yes, I know for a fact that hell doesn't exist" you then would have "absolute" knowledge, for to know for a fact that hell does not exist you would have to be not only Omnipresent but also Omniscient.....yet that would make you God, but by your own words you don't exist. What a conundrum.

reply to post by admriker444

free will is a great gift from god.

Free will a gift from "god"? Here you go again, making baseless claims that are only based on belief. When will you ever learn?

hell is very real my friend.

Really? Prove it.

its only too late once your dead.

Yeah, it's definitely too late for me to say any last words once I'm dead. I'll be a rotting corpse in a graveyard like all the rest and that's the end of it. There's two primary reasons why I can't take you seriously: You claim all kinds of crap without any evidence and your grammar is comparable to that of an elementary student.

Originally posted by idrum

Originally posted by notimportant




Well, luckely hell doens't excist so

You have absolute knowledge of this?

Yes I grasp it may be said in jest but for fun follow along. If you claim that "Yes, I know for a fact that hell doesn't exist" you then would have "absolute" knowledge, for to know for a fact that hell does not exist you would have to be not only Omnipresent but also Omniscient.....yet that would make you God, but by your own words you don't exist. What a conundrum.

brilliant ,high five brother/sister

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Condemned0625

 

based on the criteria used today for most "evidence",
i think i could provide satisfactory evidence.

Let's see it. Show me your results of a scientific analysis of a god. If you can't demonstrate it, your "evidence" is imaginary.

reply to post by Condemned0625


the criteria for proving historical evidence has to be the same across the board. the standard for historical evidence typically starts with textual evidence and corroboration in texts of other countries/civilizations. this constitues literary and historical evidence, cross culture. and of course, archaeology. archaeology is a science. this constitutes physical and historical evidence.

there's also the philosophical evidence, which is where most people have their primary complaint. don't confuse the lack of philosophical or metaphysical evidence, with the lack of evidence, entirely.

Originally posted by Condemned0625

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Condemned0625

 

based on the criteria used today for most "evidence",
i think i could provide satisfactory evidence.

Let's see it. Show me your results of a scientific analysis of a god. If you can't demonstrate it, your "evidence" is imaginary.

edit on 4/3/2011 by Condemned0625 because: (no reason given)

By your reply you're an empiricist. You rely on empirical evidences to confirm or deny "things", such as gravity for instance. You gain knowledge by observation, your senses confirm things.

Show or demonstrate to me how observation brings about knowledge?

reply to post by undo


Philosophy and metaphysics are not evidence for a claim. There's a reason why philosophy is defined as the rational investigation of truths and principles and there's a reason why metaphysics is defined as the underlying theoretical principles of a field of inquiry. Know the terminology before you assert anything about it.

reply to post by idrum


If observation doesn't bring knowledge, what else does? Is there another method of determining things without observing them? All things are observed before they are analyzed. If you're not observing it in any way, you're obviously not analyzing it and not obtaining any knowledge about it. Not only can observation be demonstrated to prove that it brings knowledge, but it's also a logical absolute because it is a necessary component of the method used to obtain knowledge in every single scenario. Simple logic demonstrates that as a fact without the need for any scientific data because in order to notice that observation brings knowledge, you must first observe it, hence the mentioning of 'notice'. Do you understand now? I can provide scientific data to support it if you don't think that observation is directly connected to knowledge. Should I go that far?

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by undo

 

Philosophy and metaphysics are not evidence for a claim. There's a reason why philosophy is defined as the rational investigation of truths and principles and there's a reason why metaphysics is defined as the underlying theoretical principles of a field of inquiry. Know the terminology before you assert anything about it.

that's why i said that philosophical evidence is where most people have complaints. this is because it is primarily a personal experience, although there is some evidence for group metaphysical phenomena, this is rarer than personal evidence. to you, your personal evidence is your experience. to someone else, it is your opinion (or your delusion, depending on how much leeway people are willing to give each other as regards personal experience).

however, the rest of the evidence, outside metaphysical universes, is still quite solid.

Originally posted by notimportant

Originally posted by thewanger
Jesus is the son of God. If people would live by what he said(the words in red, in The Bible) and not what others said about him the world would be at peace. He's not like Muslims; who say to kill those who won't convert. He says that if you don't want what he offers then so be it. True Christians do not believe in violence of any kind. For country or family or anything on this earth. Jesus said: I send you out as lambs among wolves. No protection, no defense. His answer for what should we do was: Be as innocent as doves and as wise as serpents. All we have is our wits. Jesus is not a lie or a swindle. The real question is: Are you going to be a Christian or just another person trying to get by at the expense of your fellow man. Read the New Testament but only the words of Jesus(get a Bible where they are in red) and then tell me what you think.

Why are you comparing "Jesus" with Muslims??? There are some Chrsitian extremists in other countrys who kill everything what is not Christian. And what about the KKK? it's a Christiangroup who do harm to others in name of Jesus and the bible and everything else which had to deo with Christianity. And what about your country (us) which start wars in the name of the "christian god" in other country's, you are on the wrong side my friend, but to blind to see the whole image......

I really feel sad for narrowminded people like you who think that and say christianity is the ONLY and RIGHT religion because "jesus" or the "bible" says so, c'mon think for yourself !!

What someone who belongs to an organized relgion does in their own errors has nothing to do with what Yeshua/Jesus taugth. He taught to turn the other cheek. To forgive forever, and to serve everyone, to wash their feet. When self defense was required, he said, "put away your swords". When they went to stone the woman caught in adultery, he said, "he who is without sin,cast the first stone.". He was a true adult, his Higher Self showing us how to actually pass the tests here and go home. Going within was the true pearl, and to take the world and all its traps out of our eyes.

Matthew 13, the parable of the sower shows us the entire world and all its teachings including the religion ones, are blind, traps, weeds, tares, and disinfo. But he also gives a clue, by saying that if we were to turn and ask for our sight, ie. our awareness and consciousness to be healed, for the light and positivity within us to be increased,we would be. For when you seek you find what you are looking for.

This school is all about Love and equality. Turning the pyramid upside down. Never reatliating, punishing, harming anyone. For all are family, including the ones harming us. Its like, they're the younger siblings falling off their bikes without the training wheels and getting angry in the process becoming bullies on the playgorund hurting others and stealing their lunches, food and resources. Yet, we're not to harm our younger siblings just because we can ride our bikes, we're to help them, to love them, to forgive them,to understand that we also walked those paths.

There are many things not put in that bible that he said. Though reincarnation is alluded to and one of the bodies of traditional orthodox views in Judaism.

There is a lot of control in the bible that is put there to as traps.

A smiting God. Harming others. Murdering your disobedient teenagers. Wars.

Wars, inequality, and retaliation are amongst the big tests here, and we need to overcome this and ask for the Spirit of Peace and Love to fill us.

We're here to become our Higher Selves, as he was his HS. We're here to inherit the heavenly Beyond, which is only one Beyond out of Infnite Beyonds for we progress infinitely in an infinite endless platform and all things pertain to it. And Infinity has many hallmarks that are Quantum understandings and not alluded to in the bible.

Nonetheless. There are two raods in all religions, the lower path, of smiting and the higher path of forgiveness and serving all. Of being a peacemaker and walking away from every argument we can. Trying to grow up.

Its up to us to discover, pray for, and use discernment.

reply to post by undo


Of course there is personal evidence. People can be absolutely certain that they experienced something and weren't hallucinating, but then there are those who did hallucinate or mistakenly thought what they experienced or saw was one thing when it was actually something else. There have been times when I thought I saw something strange, but later I realized that it was just an optical illusion from my peripheral vision. I'm not obsessive with trying to debunk everything I experience, but sometimes proof arises that dismisses my experience as a natural occurrence. However, if I see something like a ghost or a really strange creature and I'm absolutely certain that I was not hallucinating, then I will not deny what I saw or experienced. Religious people claim that they "feel" the presence of supernatural entities, but there's a huge difference between feeling and seeing. Things you feel can be interpreted as so many different things in so many different ways and it's not really plausible to be absolutely certain that you felt "angels" or "gods" unless you can see them, analyze them and confirm that they are actually there. I always point out the flaws that nobody else mentions in these types of situations.

reply to post by Condemned0625


i think alot of it has to do with faith, which is a very powerful exercise of the mind. although the mind is a physical thing, it's capable of many theoretical, philosophical and metaphysical concepts or experiences: some less metaphysical than others. some the result of disease, some the result of abuse, some of the result of named phenomenon of various kinds.

for example, i have alot of theories about pretty much everything related to ancient texts and how they apply to us. one such example is junk DNA, which i theorize is a quantumly entangled recording device (book of life) and that people who are savants, as a result of breakdown of normal neural pathways, have grown new neural pathways that are accessing their junk dna, where they are storing and retrieving raw data, causing them to resemble walking encyclopedias and human calculators.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by admriker444

 

free will is a great gift from god.

Free will a gift from "god"? Here you go again, making baseless claims that are only based on belief. When will you ever learn?

hell is very real my friend.

Really? Prove it.

its only too late once your dead.

Yeah, it's definitely too late for me to say any last words once I'm dead. I'll be a rotting corpse in a graveyard like all the rest and that's the end of it. There's two primary reasons why I can't take you seriously: You claim all kinds of crap without any evidence and your grammar is comparable to that of an elementary student.

the proof is all around you. do some research on nde, there are hundreds of thousands of us... maybe millions who have died briefly and experienced the afterlife. heck go to any emergency room when its not busy and ask to interview a nurse or doctor. i guarantee you they will have several cases where a dead patient came back and later recounted things they couldnt possibly know

my grammar is quite good thanks. i have a ba in communications. maybe im lazy a bit and dont cap when appropriate. clearly your attacking the messenger here as the message cant be refuted

I'll pray for you anyway my friend.