EXPERT: This Is Beyond Their Ability To Contain

Originally posted by amongus
What I don't understand is why the HELL they aren't starting to dump cocncrete on these reactors NOW! They have to know that their efforts are only futile at this point, right? NOW people!

I commented about this on another thread concerning this situation. I've become convinced there is no "Plan B."

That's why they continue to spray water on it, like that is going to solve the problem. Hubris has led to this point, and the results could very well be catastrophic. I think the time has come to stop ****ing around and get into extreme measures to mitigate this. We are past the point of hosing it down with water or even just capping it with concrete. This is an extreme situation, requiring extreme actions, though what those may be I can not say. I am not a nuclear engineer.

They have tried covering it up and saying "nothing to be concerned about" for far too long. This is obviously BS. Any thinking person can see that this is out of control.


ETA: Oh yeah, and what about Onagawa?

www.chronicletoday.com...

reply to post by VariableConstant

Originally posted by VariableConstant
"nothing to be concerned about" for far too long.

What's all the noise about? It's just a nuisance.

Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by amongus

 

its to HOT near the sites to start any kind of work.

radioactive = HOT

and temps that high will not let concrete cure correctly first thing that needs to happen is cooling and then containment.

concrete takes time as well you must do it right. theres so much prep that goes into it re-bar forms. and who knows if there a working concrete plant in japan after the damage?

The US could lend Japan their Mule robot to carry a concrete pump hose to site. Prediction Expenditure into robot workers will increase as a result of this disaster. I am sure Asimo could do some work also. This landscape has already been tainted. Perhaps the world community should step in now and enforce a concrete dump to prevent a spread of the material to other countries. At this stage I do not believe the Nuclear safety corporation (Because that what it is) I do not believe it should be the only one getting a say.

Originally posted by Shirak
The US could lend Japan their Mule robot to carry a concrete pump hose to site. Prediction Expenditure into robot workers will increase as a result of this disaster. I am sure Asimo could do some work also. This landscape has already been tainted. Perhaps the world community should step in now and enforce a concrete dump to prevent a spread of the material to other countries. At this stage I do not believe the Nuclear safety corporation (Because that what it is) I do not believe it should be the only one getting a say.

Japan should have some pretty advanced robots.

One thing they could really use I would think is a something that could swim around in the reactor vessel and take pictures, like in the movie "the Deep". It took years after the disaster, before they lowered such a camera in Three mile island. They also need to find the source of the leaks, a camera mounted on Asimo or another robot might help with that.

You see all kinds of posts that we're being lied to and while that may be true, and even bigger problem is, that nobody is really sure what the truth is because nobody can see what's really going on inside the reactor, so they don't even know the truth if they wanted to tell us the truth. That was true in the three mile incident and it's true in Japan now.

reply to post by Shirak


its a good thought and I agree.

only problem is I know concrete and it wouldnt hold up. concrete needs a form to hold it while it dries to keep it contained. with this intense heat and leaks everywhere the slurry would most likely form leaks and only help fuel the fire. the meltdown reaction is melting cured solid concrete as we speak. so a wet concrete would not help much in containment.

I hope we see more countries getting involved this is going to be bigger that Chernobyl Like V1rt pointed out in another thread.

Some critics of Japanese storage system see a worse-than-Chernobyl scenario ahead,

I watched this live....the only thing I could think at the time is I really hope this guy is wrong

I was just wondering about robots... But for the concrete problem, can't they build off-site concrete blocks that could be pout around the core? It should be feasible, no?
From there, work could be more manageable to seal it all permanently...?

I posted from the onset of the nuclear reactor incident that the first course of action should be to immediately begin moving concrete and materials to the site to seal it. In fact, standard policy should be to have the ability to completely seal the reactor site at a moments notice.... but that would reduce profit of course.. so we can forget about it.

Had they begun by declaring that upon the release of radioactive material the owners/operators of the facility lose their corporate status and cannot demand information control. They have been - just like BP was - allowed to play a PR game for the sake of their businesses.... how many people need to die, get cancer, or giver birth to damaged infants before we learn that profit-taking is no way to go about managing these scenarios?

Oddly, the 'laugh-curtain' that some people attempted to erect, calling all expressions of concern and alarm "fearmongering" and "stupid and not based on fact" collapsed before it was even fully embraced by the media... because at least 'they' learned that 'going along' with the "politically expedient" story-line only gets people hurt.

This situation cannot be undone. With the cooling water tunnels now full of water and threatening to overflow into the ocean, the clear indicators of at least partial meltdown, and 'unexplainable' plumes of smoke pouring from the facility, you would think that only the mentally defective wouldn't see that this is going to end, in the best case - dangerously close to the worst case scenario; and at worst, with a wasteland between the local waters and the remainder of Japan.

It is not Nuclear power that is to blame. It's profit-taking driving the activity that makes it reckless.

Imagine if you were not allowed to build a nuclear power plant unless you had the materials and means to contain a catastrophic failure on the spot - within hours or days. Well, then, being that responsible would mean not being filthy rich(er) right away... so it didn't happen. Instead Japan trusts its industrialist and the energy cartel to have the lion-share of control over what is 'acceptable risk.'

By the way, for any contemplating a response in the vein of "no one could have foreseen or been prepared for this scenario" think long and hard before calling for my response to that. Because it just ain't so.

reply to post by Aresh Troxit


They tried robots at Chernyobl. They stopped working as they approached the radioactive area, shielding them adequately would have made them too heavy to move. In the end, only humans willing to sacrifice their lives could go in... and they did.

reply to post by Maxmars

In the end, only humans willing to sacrifice their lives could go in... and they did.

I propose we send in the CEO's.

All of them.

reply to post by soficrow


I would have thought that they were of a moral caliber to have volunteered.... at least that's how their Bio's read.

Here is some interesting reporting on the subject:

I posted this in another ATS, Japan Crisis thread, this morning...it seams appropriate for this one too .

New Report:

ABC News reporter confronts Tepco officials at Tepco headquaters....great video, he should be on ATS.

abcnews.go.com...

Des

My name is Alexander. I have been coming to ATS for a while, and I thought I would throw myself to the wolves here in the hopes that someone in Japan is listening.

I am technically a relatively young man, 37, but I have managed to live a rather exciting life. I’ve been a pilot, a steel worker, a lumberjack, a banker, a millionaire business owner, a million mile long haul trucker, and even an art dealer. Today, I live the stereotypic pauper reclusive nomadic life of people like myself.

I have spent my life running from who I am. My mentor was my grandfather. When I was very young, he recognized our similarities, and he took me under his wing, and trained me as his apprentice. At the time he was well into his retirement, but he was still doing subcontract work for the defense department. It was the mid eighties, and his services were starting to become in demand again, as industry began catching up to him. This was his legacy. Spend a lifetime fighting battle after battle with expert engineers trying to drag them into the future. When you prove your point, it gets hidden from the public, only to show up on the discovery channel decades later as the “newest discovery”. This is the man who brought x-rays to aviation, developed some of the first jet fuel specifications, chemically engineered much of the rubber formulas in circulation, developed virtually all of today’s advanced composites, and even developed the cold filtering process in draft beer. Yet you won’t see his name anywhere. People think genius is some kind of status symbol, a great trick at parties. It is a cruel lonely place. A handful of moments of brilliance, paid for with months of darkness.

At the end of the second world war a tremendous atrocity was committed. When allied forces absolved Nazi scientists through operation paperclip, they spit in the face of all those who brought them that victory, the allied scientific community. These were the engineers who were forced to live banal lives working for the very people who propagated the ideals they knew were obsolete or destructive. Not everyone was complacent. These reactor facilities are one Nazi idea that should have stayed on the battle field. You have to question the logic of using a reaction that produces enormous amounts of energy, to boil water, to run a turbine, and produce an exponencially less amount of energy.

I do not claim to be an expert. I do have more pieces to the puzzle than most. I know the reactor’s design. The metalurgy involved in the various containment components like the rod casings. The process and supply chain for starting and fueling a reactor including the mining and prospecting side, as well as storage and subsequent conversion of spent uranium rods to medical isotopes, military ballistic alloys, and the eventual reconcentration of plutonium for the production of MOX. I can’t work a Geiger counter, and I am not up to date on the latest Narsacesium 123 scale that they are using today to detect radioactivity. I do know how to manipulate these reactions, and how to complete them, which is something no one seemed to take the time to figure out.

There is a piece to the atomic puzzle that explains magneto hydrodynamic drive, that is kept very secret, but is a key to understanding any atomic reaction. Only a few people are aware of this small discrepancy in the atomic model that drastically alters our understanding of the universe. The fact that I see on ATS terms like Vrill or Zero point or Dark Energy, show the perpetuation of a myth that resembles the days when couloub force was called divine intervention.

No, I am not an expert like the ones on CNN, or at the IAEA. They can explain to you clearly why what is happening is not actually happening. To me, this looks an awful lot like a Unified fission reaction. If this is the case, the more time elapses the greater the size of the blast. It can most definitely explode, and the magnitude of the blast will make Tzar bomba look like a toy. They are the radioactive equivalent to a crown fire, and there will be a point soon when containment will be irrelevant.

It does not have to happen, and if any country in the world can solve this problem, it is Japan. What the people need is the truth, and to get moving. Not trusting in the greatness of the Japanese people to be able to deal with reality is the same fatal mistake that was made in the days after Hiroshima.

I think his response was edited,.
Watch the interview at the end when she asks
him how this will affect the area and the states.
the clip looks like it was edited

reply to post by AlphaExray

Originally posted by AlphaExray
To me, this looks an awful lot like a Unified fission reaction. If this is the case, the more time elapses the greater the size of the blast. It can most definitely explode, and the magnitude of the blast will make Tzar bomba look like a toy. They are the radioactive equivalent to a crown fire, and there will be a point soon when containment will be irrelevant.

Alexander,

Can you describe this process further?

It is fortunate that the USA has so many deep underground tunnels and cities, as described by Phil Schneider, for people to hide in if their is a catastrophic nuclear explosion with fallout that heads eastwards.
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by thegoods724
us is safe thats good

Really? Radiation from Japan has been detected in rain water in Massachusetts. But of course there's nothing to worry about. Right? After all, the status of the disaster has been improving every day since it began.... right?

And besides, "What's a little fallout?".

edit on 3/27/2011 by this_is_who_we_are because: right?

Classic fear mongering sensationalism.

Do YOU know the level of radiation exposure needed to cause harm to a human being?

Do YOU know the level of radiation detected in the rainwater?

It was miniscule.

You go ahead and worry about your safety while I continue to worry about the people of Japan.

And guess what, if there is a REASON to be concerned here in the states, I'll be concerned. Until then, you will not catch me crying to the heavens and getting into a state of panic on a website over the worst case scenario because it mistakenly makes you feel like you're "catching onto the truth." The reality is, you're just being ignorant.

"What's a little fallout?"

Pray you don't see the day of true nuclear fallout on US shores. You'll gladly trade for an insignificant amount of irradiated rainwater.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

It's dangerous for anyone within 30km of the facility but even a full meltdown wont spread any more radiation to the US than multiple atomic bomb tests did, up to and including this one:

Tsar Bomba - King of the Bombs

edit on 27-3-2011 by Arbitrageur because: fix typo

Are you willing to bet your life on that? On what they disseminate through the media, who's job it is to keep us calm?

Originally posted by amongus
So there is nothing that can be done? How about prefabbing lead domes and place them onto of the reactors? And, we could send over a ship with a mobile concrete unit if need be. Its like they are pissing in the wind over there. There has to be a solution.......

No, lead has a low melting point. They did this in tschernobyl and all it did was evaporating. lead is poisenous. You have to wait for a cool down before containing as stated before