EXPERT: This Is Beyond Their Ability To Contain

Originally posted by SaosinEngaged

You go ahead and worry about your safety while I continue to worry about the people of Japan.

I'm worried about your safety as well. I guess I'm just full of faults...

Originally posted by dr treg
It is fortunate that the USA has so many deep underground tunnels and cities, as described by Phil Schneider, for people to hide in if their is a catastrophic nuclear explosion with fallout that heads eastwards.
www.youtube.com...

Zorgon has a thread with the links to the videos on Chernobyl somewhere on ATS.

I watched the videos, and they used lead to basically shut down the fission process, from what I got out of the videos. The problem in Chernobyl is that the containment vessel for the actual fission reaction process had been breached. When the dumped the lead into the reaction, lead was evaporated and wound up contaminating a large area as well.

I wonder if they have any failsafe setup in place to fill the reactors with enough lead to shutdown the fission process, and the storage pools as well. This should be the next step in the process. With the storage pools, they should make an effort to contain any vaporized lead.

Robotics did work at Chernobyl, but they didn't last very long. The electronics shutdown after so much time. They would have to rotate in the robots like they do men. I think they got a few days out of the robots. Lead shielding of the electronics should give them more life.

For what it is worth....

Nuclear Fission
For a nuclear reactor, Uranium is enriched to achieve 5% U-235 and 95% U-238. U-235 occurs at 1% in nature and is what makes the process happen. The mixture is formed into pellets. The pellets are placed into long tubes which are then arranged with spacing for cooling water channels into what are called fuel assemblies.

The fuel assemblies are shipped by truck to the reactor site. They're not highly radioactive. There are some spontaneous fissions but the resulting Neutrons are fast Neutrons. Fast Neutrons just bounce off the U-235 nuclei.

It is not until the fuel assemblies are installed into the reactor vessel and water is added that things start to happen. Boron control rods that absorb Neutrons stop the reaction from starting. The control rods are slowly withdrawn to expose a portion of the reactor core to itself. Spontaneous fission neutrons enter the water channels striking Protons in the water, slowing them down. (Not unlike a queue ball striking a billiard ball where the queue stops and the billiard ball moves on.)

The slowed neutron then migrates through the water channel into adjacent fuel where it encounters a U-235 atom, is “absorbed” and the U-235 subsequently fissions.

The fission rate proceeds and a criticality factor = 1 is maintained. That is, one fission creates one more fission, no more, no less.

The Boron control rods are periodically withdrawn to expose new U-235 as the initial exposure starts to burn out.

The water has two functions;
It provides cooling.
It is the moderator that controls the fission rate. Neutron's have to be slowed down because fast Neutrons just bounce off the U-235 nuclei. Too much fission and the water heats up, becomes less dense and less Neutrons are slowed down decreasing fission rate.

Cooler water, more fission occurs. The water moderator maintains the criticality factor = 1.

In addition, some of the U-238 absorbs some of the slowed neutrons. It becomes U-239 which decays by Beta to become Neptunium 239 (Np-239) which again decays by Beta to become best friend, Plutonium 239. In effect, the reactor manufactures more fuel for itself.

www.howgravityworks.org...

I'm no nuclear engineer, but the prospect of a melted slag core of fissionable material in the quantities we know are in the reactors presents the ability for a slow cascading energy production problem. With the accompanying heat itself making control impossible. I don't know enough to say whether such an uncontrolled mass of radioactive material transmuting itself from U235 to U236 could lead to explosive detonation.... I truly hope not.

reply to post by SaosinEngaged


I believe it's your kind of attitude and ignorance that keeps everyone focused on acute exposures and reactions - as if radiation and other exposures are NOT cumulative, that diseases appearing 10-20 years after exposure don't count, and as if long term debilitation and disability from chronic disease isn't relevant.

From radiation to Mad Cow disease - low level exposures add up - and the result is a chronic disease and economic burden that most nations cannot handle any more.

So what's the answer? Kill the useless eaters?

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by thegoods724
us is safe thats good

Really? Radiation from Japan has been detected in rain water in Massachusetts. But of course there's nothing to worry about. Right? After all, the status of the disaster has been improving every day since it began.... right?

And besides, "What's a little fallout?".

edit on 3/27/2011 by this_is_who_we_are because: right?

got any proof of this?

Originally posted by libertytoall

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by thegoods724
us is safe thats good

Really? Radiation from Japan has been detected in rain water in Massachusetts. But of course there's nothing to worry about. Right? After all, the status of the disaster has been improving every day since it began.... right?

And besides, "What's a little fallout?".

edit on 3/27/2011 by this_is_who_we_are because: right?

got any proof of this?

Here is the proof: www.wwlp.com...

Raindrops containing low level radioactive material from Japan have reached Massachusetts. We're told there's nothing to worry about right now.

Of course they say in the article it's nothing to worry about.

Originally posted by libertytoall

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by thegoods724
us is safe thats good

Really? Radiation from Japan has been detected in rain water in Massachusetts. But of course there's nothing to worry about. Right? After all, the status of the disaster has been improving every day since it began.... right?

And besides, "What's a little fallout?".

edit on 3/27/2011 by this_is_who_we_are because: right?

got any proof of this?

Low-level Radiation In Massachusetts Rainwater
BOSTON | Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:16pm EDT
www.reuters.com...

(Reuters) - Trace amounts of radioactive iodine linked to Japan's crippled nuclear power station have turned up in rainwater samples as far away as Massachusetts during the past week, state officials said on Sunday.

reply to post by majesticgent


Thank you. Exactly my point. And by the time they admit there is anything to worry about regarding this latest development the situation will one again have changed, and it will be self evident that there was something to worry about all along. As with each previous development.

You guys hopefully realized the writing was on the wall the day that the top guy at Tokyo Electric was in tears, they know the ramifications of what would happen.

reply to post by -W1LL


While I agree that Redneck seems to know what he is talking about in regards to nuclear technology I have to question how well versed someone really is if they are patting themselves on the back for coining a term that has been in the popular lexicon since 1979.

The Three Mile Island accident was a partial core nuclear meltdown in Unit 2 (a pressurized water reactor manufactured by Babcock & Wilcox) of the Three Mile Island Nuclear Generating Station in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania near Harrisburg, United States in 1979.

Three Mile Island accident

Originally posted by DarkOutlook
You guys hopefully realized the writing was on the wall the day that the top guy at Tokyo Electric was in tears, they know the ramifications of what would happen.

Apparently some posters to this thread still do not. Unfortunate, but that's the way it goes with most things...


Relevant cliché Number 1:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer

Unfortunately, what this expert describes as the worst case scenario is NOT the worst case scenario. In fact, the ‘worst case scenario’ here is vastly understated.

As Philip White of the CNIC puts it,

“The truth is that even in the best-case scenario the environmental and human consequences of this disaster will be enormous. The potential impact of a worst-case scenario is beyond most people's comprehension.”

(english.kyodonews.jp...)

In the real worst case scenario, there is a full meltdown and pooling of the ‘radioactive mess’ outside the containment vessel to a point where, (and this is what the media is studiously avoiding mention of), a critical mass accumulates and the fission chain reaction spontaneously recommences outside the vessel with no moderators.

If this occurs, (and I’m praying to any god who will listen it doesn’t), the nuclear inventory at Fukushima, which is well over 1000 tons (and probably closer to 2000 tons) of radioactive material could vaporize into a deadly cloud and be released into the air.

If the wind is blowing towards Tokyo, the thirty million people there could receive lethal doses of radiation.

The entire northern hemisphere could receive far more radiation pollution than would have occurred in a major global nuclear war.

The entire world's food chain could become contaminated.

This is not fear mongering. This is the reality that nobody wants to face.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by AlphaExray

 

Originally posted by AlphaExray
To me, this looks an awful lot like a Unified fission reaction. If this is the case, the more time elapses the greater the size of the blast. It can most definitely explode, and the magnitude of the blast will make Tzar bomba look like a toy. They are the radioactive equivalent to a crown fire, and there will be a point soon when containment will be irrelevant.

Alexander,

Can you describe this process further?

Rest easy, the only thing the current situation in Japan and the Tsar Bomba have in common is the word nuclear.

More uneducated scaremongering supposition, the process for a fissionable core meltdown and a thermonuclear detonation are entirely different.

Edit to add: Aethron's post above is a very possible scenario.

It really really really gets on my tits that they was just "HOPING FOR THE BEST" and have put many of there own peoples future health at risk because they was "HOPING FOR THE BEST" its just ridiculous, it makes me sick.... ALWAYS GETTING LIED TO BY OUR GOVERNMENTS all over the world!

JUST TELL US THE [SNIPPING] TRUTH for a change so people can make there own minds up, forget if there's panic, its better than dying after being lied to

Everybody knew or had a gut feeling that this was out of control weeks ago when it mattered, even the Japanese people said they don't think there government is telling them the truth, but they the people didn't want to make a big expensive decision to move or get out the country because they TRUSTED there government was telling them the truth, it just goes to show to many people in this world wait for there governments to tell them the truth or put an official government approved stamp on the truth, even tho they already knew it all along, we all did, most of the people if not all tho's people who worked on that nuclear plant or was told it was safe in nearby towns & city's are likely to all get cancer

They need to start dropping sand & concrete onto it asap no fart arsing around any more get it done now before the rest of the word starts receiving massive doses of radiation to and they already lied about it reaching America too... tons & tons of sand & concrete then put a mountain over that, this thing will be leaking for many years putting the rest of the world at risk if its not sealed ...


what a joke

Sorry bit of a rant i feel better

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

The MSM and Japanese government are doing everything in their power to...make it appear that everything is okay.

I keep seeing people say things like that, but the MSM has been reporting about the lies and the real danger all along. Do you actually watch the News, or assume? In fact I first heard about the company that own the facilities history of lying on FoxNews before it was mentioned here on ATS, while I was flipping through channels watching the video's. They also mentioned about the Japanese Government no being forthcoming. Also saw the same on CNN before I saw it mentioned here.

There is plenty to criticize the Partisan Media about, but I've seen zero attempt to cover anything up on this story. The Japanese Government however was most certainly trying to hide things. They are not now though. The last few days, they have been pretty open since the MSM outed them for their lies.

If anything the MSM is doing the opposite and fear mongering for ratings.

And now for some perspective.....

www.bbc.co.uk...

BBC reporter making a few comparisons-

"And Chernobyl? The latest UN report published on 28 February confirms the known death toll - 28 fatalities among emergency workers, plus 15 fatal cases of child thyroid cancer - which would have been avoided if iodine tablets had been taken (as they have now in Japan). And in each case the numbers are minute compared with the 3,800 at Bhopal in 1984, who died as a result of a leak of chemicals from the Union Carbide pesticide plant."

For fatalities Chernobyl was a firework, Bhopal was a major blast.

"The highest rate reported, at 1900 on 22 March, for any Japanese prefecture was 12 kBq per sq m (for the radioactive isotope of caesium, caesium-137)........A map of Chernobyl in the UN report shows regions shaded according to rate, up to 3,700 kBq per sq m - areas with less than 37 kBq per sq m are not shaded at all. In round terms, this suggests that the radioactive fallout at Fukushima is less than 1% of that at Chernobyl"

So all this radiation people are bleating about in US is gonna be many times less than the fallout from chernobyl that hit Europe and all the northern hemisphere. For those that are geographically challenged USA is in the northern hemisphere.

"On the 16th anniversary of Chernobyl, the Swedish radiation authorities, writing in the Stockholm daily Dagens Nyheter, admitted over-reacting by setting the safety level too low and condemning 78% of all reindeer meat unnecessarily, and at great cost."

Knee jerk over reaction.

"This attempt at reassurance is the basis of international radiation safety regulations today, which suggest an upper limit for the general public of 1 mSv per year above natural levels (2.7mSv/yr)......However, patients receiving a course of radiotherapy usually get a dose of more than 20,000 mSv to vital healthy tissue close to the treated tumour. This tissue survives only because the treatment is spread over many days giving healthy cells time for repair or replacement."

So in fact humans can receive doses 20k higher than recommended and not instantly fall over dead (as some would have you believe on here),some articles on here bang on about how ingested radiation producing isotopes cause cell damage without ever mentioning the fact that cells regenerate so there is a level of damage that is repaired faster than it is caused.

I thank you.

reply to post by UltraMind


Are you suggesting that only 28 people died as a result of Chernobyl?

They don't want to use concrete on it because they might be able to salvage something and make so MONEY as long as it is uncovered.....Covering it will be a last ditch effort when they see they can not make any more money out of these reactors...One human life is worth less than 2 cents to TPTB...They will let many die as long as there is still hope that they can salvage something and turn it into $$$$$.....

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Shirak
The US could lend Japan their Mule robot to carry a concrete pump hose to site. Prediction Expenditure into robot workers will increase as a result of this disaster. I am sure Asimo could do some work also. This landscape has already been tainted. Perhaps the world community should step in now and enforce a concrete dump to prevent a spread of the material to other countries. At this stage I do not believe the Nuclear safety corporation (Because that what it is) I do not believe it should be the only one getting a say.

Japan should have some pretty advanced robots.

One thing they could really use I would think is a something that could swim around in the reactor vessel and take pictures, like in the movie "the Deep". It took years after the disaster, before they lowered such a camera in Three mile island. They also need to find the source of the leaks, a camera mounted on Asimo or another robot might help with that.

You see all kinds of posts that we're being lied to and while that may be true, and even bigger problem is, that nobody is really sure what the truth is because nobody can see what's really going on inside the reactor, so they don't even know the truth if they wanted to tell us the truth. That was true in the three mile incident and it's true in Japan now.

been to busy creating their greatest gifts to mankind.Such as one of many...

gizmodo.com...#!288234/honey-doll-has-touch-sensors-moans-has-fake-orgasms