About Transhumanism Again, Not Enough Is Brought To This Subject

reply to post by chr0naut

So in his quote, your are aware of his meaning when he said:

C. S. Lewis, "If I find in myself, desires; nothing in this world can satisfy, I can only conclude I was not made for here".

He's talking about a better place to be which is in heaven, for this physical life to him has nothing to be content with, it is just a passing to a better existence.

In John's Revelation of Jesus Christ, the Church (potentially billions of people) are spoken of as "the Bride of Christ". Taken along with other clues (such as Jesus describing to the Pharisees that there is "no marriage in heaven") leads me to believe that we are destined for unity beyond what we know now. That being said, there also still appears to be individuality too.

Yes it will be a place of unimaginable beauty, wonderment, love, and peace. Yes we will still have individuality but with a new heart and mind.
And if you are a born again Christian, don't be afraid to say it out right. I myself have been one for about 30 years, but that does not make us perfect, just forgiven. We have much to learn on this narrow road that we travel on. I put no faith in any church, or man, and I test all the spirits, trusting only in God leading the way and showing me truth. I will not make any strong proclamations except for what God has shown me in scripture and from scripture I will take those teachings. I still fall, and get back up, the difference being, I am aware of my failings and my faults, and I always have to confess and ask for forgiveness when I've failed.
There was a time in my life where I didn't notice anything that I did wrong, My soul was asleep and my mind and my mouth was very filthy.
I thank God that He woke me up and showed me why Christ died.

Back to the subject of transhumanism, this is a very dangerous path that mankind is delving in.

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

If your virtualised copy is in the machine isn't it another you in another place? It does not mean you have moved into the machine from your external viewpoint but from the "you" in the machine you have.

The only way we will pass to another existence is when we die, our soul or spirit will leave this vessel we call the body. And we will go to a place to await the great day of judgment.

reply to post by hawaii50th


That is a belief not a fact.

What I was suggesting is that the goal of the Transhumanists is similar to biblical heaven (from certain viewpoints), it is the mechanism which is different.

and I don't believe that the technology is impossible, it may take a long time but if technology keeps growing at the current rate it is an unevitablity.

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

That is a belief not a fact.

What I was suggesting is that the goal of the Transhumanists is similar to biblical heaven (from certain viewpoints), it is the mechanism which is different.

and I don't believe that the technology is impossible, it may take a long time but if technology keeps growing at the current rate it is an unevitablity.

It would help if you click on the quote button, to make it easier for me to reply to you.

reply to post by hawaii50th


Interesting, but these people are so clueless on a lot of things it's just ridiculous. But the more I come to know humanity, the more I want to move away from it, so whatever, might as well see were this transhumanism thing goes I guess.

reply to post by chr0naut

I believe that things like "upload" of human conciousness is inevitable as soon as computers reach the capacity.

Depends on what you think "human consciousness" is, if your talking about just info or data that the brain, even that is not possible, because the physical brain is always reconstructing itself to make new pathways or changes in its structure, so the brain is not one thing from one moment to another, and thats not even counting the mind and its reality, which dictates the brain changes just as much as brain changes dictates how you mind and reality is. Your not one thing from one moment to the next, your like a bunch of patterns or fractals that is always changing.

You see any data or info or brain pattern that is on some net or giant hardware computer somewhere in not really consciousness, as you would know it, more like data on a webpage, kind of like a dictionary or Wikipedia. Basically to cut this short, it comes down to this. There is no consciousness that is not perspective and experience, that's all it is, a specific point, place, person, or thing, in time, and everything else is interpretation of that data, by the host body that interprets the data, which is always changing both the data and the body, kind of like this simple concept of, does the man make the clothes, or do the clothes make the man, it's actually both, and then some.

Basically consciousness is just experiencing data or reality as we call it, as soon as it is done experiencing, it stops being consciousness. Were do you think the past goes to, after your done experiencing it? Since it is all experiencing the past is just data and hence not conscious, and hence not your current reality, and as everybody knows there is only the present, and the past is just data, and the future is prediction of past data with correlation of experiencing the present. And the whole immortality that old dude wants through digitalization is silly, especially considering that on some levels we are already immortal.

I am a bot more pessimistic.. I believe that scientifically progress will slow down then stagnate as we end the era of cheap oil. Things will have to be re-organized before science kiks in again. I will probably be dead by then

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Interesting, but these people are so clueless on a lot of things it's just ridiculous. But the more I come to know humanity, the more I want to move away from it, so whatever, might as well see were this transhumanism thing goes I guess.

That's the thing, I prefer not to see where this is all going, but it looks like we may not be able to escape it.
The whole problem is, it never stops at one thing. There is people in high places with lots of money and egos and goals to achieve power above all. And with this kind of power it makes for a lot of mad scientist to pop out of the wood work.
This is like the old black and white horror movies from the 50's and 60's, "Frankenstein," "Creature From The Black Lagoon," and so forth coming to reality, not to mention movies of today, "Splice" for one. And what happened in those movies to those man made creatures, they all went berserk.
We are headed for some very dark days, unless everyone pulls together and put a stop to this insanity.

Here's another thread that was put in the wrong category, maybe the mods will move it to the right place.

Scientists create animals that are part-human,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Romanian
I am a bot more pessimistic.. I believe that scientifically progress will slow down then stagnate as we end the era of cheap oil. Things will have to be re-organized before science kiks in again. I will probably be dead by then

I hope your not a "bot."

And if your old enough maybe you might not see this happen. And how do you know it hasn't already happened, and has been going on for a long time already?

Ever hear about Plum Island



'Monster' Emerges From Creek In Canada, this one made it on national news, was found by two nurses in a small community.

reply to post by hawaii50th

That's the thing, I prefer not to see where this is all going, but it looks like we may not be able to escape it. The whole problem is, it never stops at one thing. There is people in high places with lots of money and egos and goals to achieve power above all. And with this kind of power it makes for a lot of mad scientist to pop out of the wood work.

Ya them and there dream of immortality and control through the digitalization of there persona's uploaded on some future computer. The only way that would be possible is through tyranny and control, which means more sheeple creation, the same old same old, which in reality is just stifling of natural processes and life in general, because being an immortal persona on a computer, is akin to being an immortal rock that never changes, the only way to transcend change, is to stop change, and the only way to do that is to stifle and oppress and control everything, or else everything will move beyond you, when they say transcend, the picture in there minds is not transcending in the very essence and meaning of it, because to transcend means leaving everything behind to move beyond everything, being reborn as a newborn in another existence. Which means you wont be the cool kid on the old block when it happens like they want, you will just be another kid on the new block.

To tell the truth from what I have seen they are not even close to even understanding how a brain can be uploaded or digitized or how a brain actually works, I mean they still believe that increasing your intelligence is always good thing, or that all you would need is a digital brain to call up on any info your pondering in milliseconds to make you godlike, um nope that would just make you more like google. And they forget small details like, all that would do is give those people a hive mind, if they were all plugged into the same mainframe, that would create something like the grays, or the Borg from star trek, they would lose there individuality eventually. But whatever it's not like they were all that different to begin with.

reply to post by hawaii50th


Transhumanism=bad idea. When we where kid's most of us wanted remote controlled gadgets. Not become a remote controlled gadget.

reply to post by hawaii50th


I completely agree! The answers to immortality are found in the Bible not the lab.

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

The data in the machine, though, is not static. It is processing and self modifying just like the processes operating in your brain.

So what? They might create a computer simulation of you but that's all. It will not allow you to live forever or escape your body. My point is that it still can not logically be you.

I explain this in more detail here

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


You are making good sense as far as consciousness uploading. The whole concept is logically incoherent. Hawaii is right in that a lot the funding is coming from DARPA and the military industry. An arms race in genetics and transhumanism means things are going to get weird. Now another very smart computer scientist Hugo de Garis believes that a major war will break out over this before the end of the 21st century, resulting in billions of deaths.

www.gmanews.tv...

Transcending the flesh: The coming Singularity

In the future, there will be robots. And that future will happen less than 40 years from now. If you believe that humans and machines will eventually become one, then the Singularity movement is for you. In the future, there will be robots. And that future will happen less than 40 years from now. What is The Singularity? It is that point in time when humanity’s technological capacity so outstrips itself that a moment of near apotheosis for the race takes place. This means many things, but chief among them are: a) technology will become so small and cheap that body augmentation (through nanobots) will become as routine as an injection’ and b) we will give birth to machine artificial intelligence (AI) so smart it surpasses all the smart human brains of the world put together.

If, with the way things are going we make another 40 years. Personally, I hope this day of what's called "singularity" never comes.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

It is not so much a matter of metaphysics as logic. The law of non-contradiction will not allow it. Consider a scenario where you are not destroyed on earth yet the upload is successful. Obviously, the person on the other planet is not you. Since this person is clearly not you in this case, it follows that it is also not you if you were destroyed. Hence, the other person is merely your clone not you. So while you could feasibly copy data about yourself -- it will never really be you.

Not the original you. You are the original you, and you know you are the original you. But the copy of you has all the same memories, life experiences and history of you. The main difference is is that the future experiences of the copy of you will be different to your own future experiences. But you will have a shared past.

I both agree and disagree with your points. The copy is you. Just not the original of you. And would you want a copy of you wandering around? I know I certainly wouldn't. But some will. And they will do it too.

reply to post by the.lights


Actually you will not have a shared past at all. The past of the clone is that it was copied from your memories and uploaded into an artificial brain. If it remembers your past and believes it to be actual then it is deluded because it really did not exist. In contrast, you will have actual memories of your parents, childhood, education etc. Thus the distinctions preclude it being you in any meaningful way. It's a logical contradiction.

I really hope I'm dead and rotting before this abominable technology comes into play. What the fck is wrong with the world... this is madness...

Originally posted by wtf1is1happening
I really hope I'm dead and rotting before this abominable technology comes into play. What the fck is wrong with the world... this is madness...

All about Scientist, they are like little kids playing with their brand new lab and chemical set that they got for Christmas. I don't know if anyone remembers those, a friend of mine got one for Christmas and took over his mom and dads green house in their back yard and turned it into a lab. We had fun in there doing experiments of different kinds.
That's what scientist reminds me of, only now their all grown up and funded with big bucks by government black budgets, and that's the very scary part, cause they got big money now for real experiments.

reply to post by wtf1is1happening


Too late it's already here. Skip to 15:45 or so and watch him control a computer with his mind.


Of course this is old already... and no telling what they are doing in black projects.