Bible Answers to Member Questions

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

54. Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

• Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43)
• No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, “I have not yet ascended to the Father” (John 20:17)

When Paul talked about being in the third heaven, this would have been number three out of seven*, the seventh being where God was, and the third being where paradise was, the highest level that ordinary people can go.
So Jesus could have gone to the paradise level (along with the thief) without arriving where God was, having to ascend to an even higher level for that.

*read "Lord of the Cosmos: Mithras, Paul, and the Gospel of Mark" Michael Patella

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

Here you go.

Would you answer these?

The Topic is "Questions about the BIBLE", not any other book.

Feel free to create a new topic for other books and I will answer WITHOUT TWISTING AND ACROBATICS (which is what the evangelical "experts" do).

I know of your link and their "answers" (what a joke). I do not even have to go through the whole list, just the first point.

Who incited David to make the census?

In once place it says GOD incited him.

In another place it says Satan incited him.

There is no way out here: Unless you say that God in your Bible is Satan or you admit that this is a contradiction in the Bible. And if there is ONE, who knows what other things are wrong there ...


G'day to you Sir.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The link I gave debunks those contradictions.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


Well if you don't want the answers don't ask questions.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

The link I gave debunks those contradictions.

No they didn't. That joker (Jay Smith) and the cohorts offer "evidence" in form of "Maybe the author meant this ..." or "maybe they counted only specific groups of men ...". Maybe, perhaps, it could be, who know, ... THAT IS CONJECTURE.


Answer this:

Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah." - 2 Samuel 24:1

vs.

Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. - 1 Chronicles 21:1

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


False dilemma. Both could happen. Just like how you can both believe and be astounded at the same time.

No matter what anyone says, you will not accept it. Likewise, any contradiction the Qu.ran has will make you twist around.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

False dilemma. Both could happen. Just like how you can both believe and be astounded at the same time.

No matter what anyone says, you will not accept it. Likewise, any contradiction the Qu.ran has will make you twist around.

What in God's name are you talking about??

What do you mean "both can happen"?

So, BOTH ARE TRUE?

So, in once place it is GOD - THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE - ALLAH - YAHWEH - THE ONE AND ONLY - who incited David,

while, in another place, it clearly says that it was SATAN - THE DEVIL - THE ACCURSED ONE - who incited David.

So, WHO DID IT?

Please answer this simple question. Was it GOD or was it SATAN that incited him?

WHO?

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


One does not preclude the other. But you could have found this out if you bothered to read the rebuttal.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

One does not preclude the other. But you could have found this out if you bothered to read the rebuttal.

Yes it does.

And I have read the "rebuttal".

This isn't something we can "assume" or "see it another way".

David was a prophet of God. So, either God told him to make the census or Satan did.

If both told him the same thing - it would say so - God and Satan together told him so and so.
But it doesn't.

Either it is God who issued a COMMAND to his prophet to do something.
While in another place, the word God is REPLACED with Satan.

This is a contradiction.

It is absolutely the same context, the same story - everything, except that in once place it starts with "God incited him" and in another it starts with "Satan incited him".


What you (and Jay Smith and other jokers in that "rebuttal") are saying is that GOD and SATAN are working TOGETHER.

Bravo.

Did God test Job or was Satan who tested Him?

Originally posted by 547000
Did God test Job or was Satan who tested Him?

Why are you asking me?
That is another contraction in the Bible.

Satan was convinced that he could make Job lose his faith - by tempting him to renounce God, because of the plagues that had befallen him. But Job did not give in to temptation.

And remember Our servant Job, when he called to his Lord, "Indeed, Satan has touched me with hardship and torment." - Qur'an, 38:41

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


What do Muslims believe about that? The way I understand it is BOTH tested him, ultimately God who allowed Satan to torment him. So in a way God and Satan both tested him. That Satan did it does not mean it was against God's will.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

What do Muslims believe about that? The way I understand it is BOTH tested him, ultimately God who allowed Satan to torment him. So in a way God and Satan both tested him. That Satan did it does not mean it was against God's will.

It was SATAN who tormented him - because he wanted to "show" to God that he could make Job lose his faith - so he kept tempting him to renounce God, tormenting him more and more --- but Job did not give in, and repeatedly kept worshiping God, despite all his distress.

At the end God rewarded him for his patience. And Satan lost.

It was not God "testing him" - because God KNOWS EVERYTHING - he does need to test anyone, he KNOWS you. It was rather Satan who tried to make him renounce God.

And We granted him his family and a like [number] with them as mercy from Us and a reminder for those of understanding.

[We said], "And take in your hand a bunch [of grass] and strike with it and do not break your oath." Indeed, We found him patient, an excellent servant. Indeed, he was one repeatedly turning back [to Allah ].

Qur'an, 38: 43-44

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


Do you believe Satan can do anything God desires him not to? Is Satan a god or just a fallen angel? In the same way that suffering refines a man, both God's will and Satan's malevolence are fulfilled.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

READ all of this if you want to continue, its not that long.

Alright, took a while for me to catch up, you guys have been active to say the least. First of all I want to say how extremely disappointed I am in sHuRuLuNi for copy and pasting Bible questions from another web site that are not his own questions. I was excited at first to see so many questions that people had not asked yet.....them that excitement turned to disappointment as 547000 posted answers to all these questions in the same order.

So what I will do is this. I am not going to answer these 101 questions since at least 8 other Christians apologetics have already answered them, or attempted too (some of the answers are stupid, as sHuRuLuNi said, and I agree)

I will however answer some of the questions that need an explanation and some that you keep bring up, like this one:

What do you mean "both can happen"?
So, BOTH ARE TRUE?
So, in once place it is GOD - THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE - ALLAH - YAHWEH - THE ONE AND ONLY - who incited David, while, in another place, it clearly says that it was SATAN - THE DEVIL - THE ACCURSED ONE - who incited David.
So, WHO DID IT?
Please answer this simple question. Was it GOD or was it SATAN that incited him?
WHO?

The answer is very simple to those who know their Bible. Another example of what is going on in this story can be found in Job 1:7-12

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant JOB, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth JOB fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

And again in Job 2:3-7
3 And the LORD said unto SATAN, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
4 And SATAN answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
6 And the LORD said unto SATAN, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
7 So went SATAN forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

So here is what you are missing. God USES Satan as a tool to do His will. Satan has always been a tool that God out smarts and uses.

Now for the final nail in this question:

1 Kings 22:20-23
20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a LYING SPIRIT in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persude him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a LYING SPIRIT in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

As you can see, it was a lying spirit that made the prophets lie in verse 22.....BUT in verse 23 it says The Lord made them lie...indirectly through His TOOL the spirit.

Now you will not get this answer from most Christians as they don't know their Bible nor do they know how God thinks, but this is your answer. He is the LORD of HOSTS you know.....guess what all the Hosts are? Can you refute it?

Now find me another good question from your 101 copy-o-paste questions you want answered. Nothing but Scripture was used to answer your question.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

37. How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

• By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)
• His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

As I understand it, Andrew told Peter he believed this was the one, and later Jesus says something about how Peter came to this belief himself.
So one time was Peter being told about someone else's belief, the other time is Peter being told of his own belief.

reply to post by 547000


Jesus : "Call no man your father"
Paul : "today, I became your father"

How do you explain this? "Both could happen"?

As for the Koran contradiction, why dont you apply the same reasoning.... "both could happen".

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I already explained that both could happen, but you've hardened your heart against it. God's will is supreme: if He decided to forbid something absolutely it could never happen. I don't see how muslims could explain Job with Satan acting without God allowing it to come to pass.

As for the father thing you could try reading Catholic apologetics is you were interested.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Where does the Bible say that? I know about Matt 23:9. but where does it say Paul wanted people to call him "father"?

reply to post by 547000

I don't see how muslims could explain Job with Satan acting without God allowing it to come to pass.

Regarding the story of Job, God was in control the whole time.
God knew the minds and intentions of both Job and Satan.

According to the text in Job 1, Satan seems to be among the "sons of God" who had to report to God.

Satan being the "accuser", probably planned to cause Job to lose his faith through the hardships he put Job through.... but Job, being faithful to God endured.