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My first issues with the Bible.

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posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Debunker75
reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 
What you uphold is of none of my concern as, frankly, I didn't know you before, don't know you now and won't know you after leaving this message. God knows you and your heart (be it misguided or not), and as long as you please Him, that's the only thing in this life that matters. Not your opinion, or mine.

Speech? I simply said I answer to God and God alone. Not to God's creations. I listen to Him alone for my guidance, not as a last resort, but as the first. If you believe there's a better guide, then by all means, go forth and listen to them. I spoke from the heart about my Father and gave you one piece of scripture because it was all that was needed. Excuse me for taking the Word to heart and comprehending it instead of throwing chunks of it out at people like a last minute cram session. You don't attribute your knowledge to have come from God, so why use His words as your defense? And why are you going about calling Christians hypocrites? You're not one yourself, right, so who are you to judge?

Some of the weakest people are those holding copy-and-pasted Scripture as a banner and a shield, all while understanding none of it. You say you're a wannabe-Jew (essentially you are since you won't come to terms with being a Gentile. Only God can decide whether or not your claiming you're a 'real jew' is a lie. At least you've 9 more commandments. But anyway, you indicate you weren't born Jewish and therefore had had 'learn how to become one') throwing Jesus' name around like you know him.... really??? Orthodox Jews don't consider Jesus to be their Messiah, so who are you to tell me I may not know Jesus?

You should read what you posted: "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." You're the only one on here up in arms about keeping commandments, judging me as if you know my personal history and habits. You keep the laws but don't understand the message and express no Love for God. Do you think you can have one without the other?

Pray tell, do you believe you're the only one capable of hearing God's word and living according to His will? Stick to what you know and leave my personal affairs between me and God because from your posts, you don't seem to have heard the Word very well. Perhaps you should extend your knowledge past King James' version.

I know the Bible, in it's entirety is His gift to us. It comes from Him as all knowledge does, not from His creations. Hence, why I say God provides everything I need. If you choose to pay attention to the Jews alone, you won't be able to see the forest for the trees.

But again, more power to you. If it's scripture you desire, then take the boastful ego that makes you feel it's necessary to express how much 'better' you believe yourself to be at upholding the laws and please review Proverbs 8:13, Psalms 10:4, 1 Corinthians 4:7 and 2 Corinthians 10:13 for there is no room for the love of God in you if you concern yourself only with His laws and idolize a very small portion of His people. Only a fool talks as if they themselves don't sin.

Like I said, I'm happiest being a child of God and a loyal sheep for my Shepard. Being flesh and blood, we are both far from perfect, so leave me to be handled by my Father because I've long ago given my concern regarding you back to your 'teachers.' The Lord knows my heart in a way you never will. I like it that way.

Leave judgement to God. He does it much better than you do.
This is, and will be my last comment to you about this.
Peace to you


Let me guess, you went and Googled those scriptures, am I right? Haha, the only thing is God doesn't talk to anybody, and anyone who says different doesn't belong in society. You are AGAINST CHRIST if you don't keep his teachings. His teaching include but not limited to, keeping the laws, statutes, commandments, holy day and the faith in Jesus. And I don't care what your beliefs are, this what Jesus said.

Matthew 19:16-19 (King James Version)

16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jesus said clearly if you wanted to enter into life, you have to keep all the commandments. Clearly, you don't know how to read the scriptures. And you know will unless you are taught by God's chosen people, like it says here in the scripture.

Romans 10:14-16 (King James Version)

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?




posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by TheIsraelite777 No. There is no such thing as a trinity. the Bible does not support it. And before you go off posting scriptures, let me remind you Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 were both added in by Constantine. Neither one of two verses were found in the earlier Greek translations.


I read those verses, and I note that first John 5:7 admits that "...and these three are one." Further, if these verses were inserted by Constantine, then Ivan Panin, the mathematician of the Bible, would have noticed the break in the mathematical codes which run from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. Your position is untenable.


I just posted my sources. This matter is official closed, whether or not you read them.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by radpetey
reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 
English, Irish, German, Swedish, and a little American Indian...... your run of the mill mutt you could say.


Well, acccording to the Bible, the Jews are black. And According to Ezekiel 20:34-39, Ezekiel 28:25-26, Ezekiel 34:20-25 and 28, and Ezekiel 37:21-28, the true Jews have not been gathered yet. And will only be gathered at the 2nd coming of the Lord. Only when King David has been resurrected. Only when it's peaceful on this earth again. Only when the Lord has executed judgment on all of Israel's enemies.

Here are some videos on the subject.





Here is some videos that explains why blacks are the true Jews according to the Bible.





Now if you don't watch any of the videos, don't bother commenting with your opinion on why you believe this is wrong. I don't have time for it.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by radpetey
reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 
You seem to have forgotten the scripture that says "for you no longer need a teacher, the Spirit will teach you all things".... Sorry about the gross paraphrasing. I can't remember where that is.......Human hard drive freeze.



Hi. You couldn't be more right. But you have to remember that only the people truly filled by
The Holy Ghost will grasp what you are saying.


The Holy Ghost is NOT FEELINGS. Wow. If you don't keep the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days and the faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost is nowhere near you. The Holy Ghost is what tells you, you are about to break a commandment or a law, it lets you know you are about to do something wrong. So the Holy Ghost has nothing to do with your feelings.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 


I'm a little late to this argument, but I feel I have to address these claims, because I used to be like you. First of all, I am guessing you are a Messianic Jew, so was I, so was Father Bernstein who wrote "Surprised by Christ" (read it). You see Father Bernstein was a part of the whole Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jewish movements. It's understandable why these movements sprang up, people wanted the ancient Semitic Christianity of the Apostles and not Gentilized Christianity. The problem is that this movement sprang out of the sixties and seventies, which as you might gather is nearly 2,000 years apart from the Apostles. I'll return to Father Bernstein after I make some other points.

As far as the Sabbath and the Lord's Day goes; are you aware of the repeating number codes in the Bible. 7 being divine or perfection, 6 being worldly imperfection, 10 being the law, and 12 being the fullness of Israel and the Church (tribes and apostles), and 8 pertaining to the Resurrection. These codes repeat throughout the Bible most notably in the Byzantine text used for that King James Bible you hold so dear. Anyways, you can't separate Ya'hshuah from the Church he left with his disciples and we can see from the 8fold code in Ya'hshuah's speach as well as the discourses of St. Polycarp and St. Ignatius of Antioch that Christians celebrated the resurrection on the Eighth Day. I say the Eighth Day, because God is still working, he gave us a new covenant and a new day. We are not under the Mosaic Law anymore, the purpose of which was to create a people righteous enough to bear the Messiah WHO HAS COME. Christ has conquered sin, death, and the devil and the old law has been FULFILLED not DESTROYED, but brought to fruition in Ya'hshuah Moshiach. We have a new covenant and a new day to celebrate his resurrection.

Now, back to Father Bernstein. Father Bernstein studied the early Church Fathers when Christianity was a Semitic sect. They worshipped on the Eighth Day, they used liturgical services, and performed closed communion believing the Eucharist to be the Body and Blood of the Lord. These Semitic Christians still exist in Antioch and Jerusalem and they are ORTHODOX. The more aesthetically "Jewish" Christians were known as the Ebionites and they rejected the Incarnation which is absolutely essential to our salvation. If God didn't repair the bridge to him by the Blood of his Son the Logos then there is no salvation. Those like Polycarp and Ignatius who were disciples of John and the group of Christians who wrote the Didache rejected them utterly. You my friend are deceived in thinking that a group of psuedo-Jews in the 21st Century can understand the Apostles better than those who learned at their feet.


You are under the law if you don't keep it.

Look, you are a liar. Know why? Because if we aren't under the law, then their can be no sin. We can't be sinners without the law. So, are we sinners or not? Make up your mind.

Romans 5:13 (King James Version)

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 


I'm a little late to this argument, but I feel I have to address these claims, because I used to be like you. First of all, I am guessing you are a Messianic Jew, so was I, so was Father Bernstein who wrote "Surprised by Christ" (read it). You see Father Bernstein was a part of the whole Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jewish movements. It's understandable why these movements sprang up, people wanted the ancient Semitic Christianity of the Apostles and not Gentilized Christianity. The problem is that this movement sprang out of the sixties and seventies, which as you might gather is nearly 2,000 years apart from the Apostles. I'll return to Father Bernstein after I make some other points.

As far as the Sabbath and the Lord's Day goes; are you aware of the repeating number codes in the Bible. 7 being divine or perfection, 6 being worldly imperfection, 10 being the law, and 12 being the fullness of Israel and the Church (tribes and apostles), and 8 pertaining to the Resurrection. These codes repeat throughout the Bible most notably in the Byzantine text used for that King James Bible you hold so dear. Anyways, you can't separate Ya'hshuah from the Church he left with his disciples and we can see from the 8fold code in Ya'hshuah's speach as well as the discourses of St. Polycarp and St. Ignatius of Antioch that Christians celebrated the resurrection on the Eighth Day. I say the Eighth Day, because God is still working, he gave us a new covenant and a new day. We are not under the Mosaic Law anymore, the purpose of which was to create a people righteous enough to bear the Messiah WHO HAS COME. Christ has conquered sin, death, and the devil and the old law has been FULFILLED not DESTROYED, but brought to fruition in Ya'hshuah Moshiach. We have a new covenant and a new day to celebrate his resurrection.

Now, back to Father Bernstein. Father Bernstein studied the early Church Fathers when Christianity was a Semitic sect. They worshipped on the Eighth Day, they used liturgical services, and performed closed communion believing the Eucharist to be the Body and Blood of the Lord. These Semitic Christians still exist in Antioch and Jerusalem and they are ORTHODOX. The more aesthetically "Jewish" Christians were known as the Ebionites and they rejected the Incarnation which is absolutely essential to our salvation. If God didn't repair the bridge to him by the Blood of his Son the Logos then there is no salvation. Those like Polycarp and Ignatius who were disciples of John and the group of Christians who wrote the Didache rejected them utterly. You my friend are deceived in thinking that a group of psuedo-Jews in the 21st Century can understand the Apostles better than those who learned at their feet.


I know we are under grace, but check this out!

Romans 6:1-4 (King James Version)

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

So now that we are under grace, we are supposed to walk in newness of life just like Jesus. What did Jesus do? He kept the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days! He set an example for us to follow.

Romans 6:15-16 (King James Version)

15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

If you obey God you are going to walk in commandments and observe his statutes. Otherwise, you are of Satan the devil, I don't care what scriptures you use to make yourself feel better. The Bible is full proof.

Romans 3:31 (King James Version)

31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Faith/Grace does not void the law!!!!



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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I'm white BTW, not black.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 


Your ideas are western inventions. The worst of these being your attonement doctrine which is born of the heretical "Satisfaction" doctrine of the Crucifixion (invented by a Roman Catholic no less). I could go on and on about how Penal Substitution is the worst heresy to sneak into Western Christianity, but I already did that. So, to save time, go to my thread pertaining to the TRUE reason for the Crucifixion: www.abovetopsecret.com... In short propitiary attonement and penal substitution make God an obstacle in our salvation.

You are a Black Yisraelite then? First of all the Jews of the OT certainly weren't white, but were more akin to Middle Easterners with unique Semitic characteristics, such as larger noses and prominent brows. Africans are not Semitic, it's that simple. Now, there are white Jews and Black Jews, but that's because of interbreeding and conversions after the Diaspora. So we wind up with white Jews in Europe and Black Jews (Beta Yisraelites) in Ethiopia who are supposedly the lost tribe of Dan (also MOSTLY ORTHODOX now).

When Ya'hshuah said that he came to fulfill the law and not destroy it, he meant bring it to fruition with his birth and the establishment of a New Covenant. When he said "whoever breaks one of these commandments or teaches others to do so shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven" that was right before he expounded on the laws of the New Covenant. Furthermore, if you look at the Acts of the Apostles and see what transpired at the Council of Jerusalem you will notice that they did not require circumcision or any of the Mosaic Law to be pressed on converts. This shows that a different kind of law was in place. Early Christian writing confirms that the Law of the New Covenant given at the Sermon on the Mount was the New Law that Christians were to keep. Here is a transcript of the first six chapters of the Didache (A.D. 100 at least):


CHAPTER 1 1:1 There are two paths, one of life and one of death, and the difference is great between the two paths. 1:2 Now the path of life is this -- first, thou shalt love the God who made thee, thy neighbour as thyself, and all things that thou wouldest not should be done unto thee, do not thou unto another. 1:3 And the doctrine of these maxims is as follows. Bless them that curse you, and pray for your enemies. Fast on behalf of those that persecute you; for what thank is there if ye love them that love you? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? But do ye love them that hate you, and ye will not have an enemy. 1:4 Abstain from fleshly and worldly lusts. If any one give thee a blow on thy right cheek, turn unto him the other also, and thou shalt be perfect; if any one compel thee to go a mile, go with him two; if a man take away thy cloak, give him thy coat also; if a man take from thee what is thine, ask not for it again, for neither art thou able to do so. 1:5 Give to every one that asketh of thee, and ask not again; for the Father wishes that from his own gifts there should be given to all. Blessed is he who giveth according to the commandment, for he is free from guilt; but woe unto him that receiveth. For if a man receive being in need, he shall be free from guilt; but he who receiveth when not in need, shall pay a penalty as to why he received and for what purpose; and when he is in tribulation he shall be examined concerning the things that he has done, and shall not depart thence until he has paid the last farthing. 1:6 For of a truth it has been said on these matters, let thy almsgiving abide in thy hands until thou knowest to whom thou hast given. CHAPTER 2 2:1 But the second commandment of the teaching is this. 2:2 Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not corrupt youth; thou shalt not commit fornication; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not use soothsaying; thou shalt not practise sorcery; thou shalt not kill a child by abortion, neither shalt thou slay it when born; thou shalt not covet the goods of thy neighbour; 2:3 thou shalt not commit perjury; thou shalt not bear false witness; thou shalt not speak evil; thou shalt not bear malice; 2:4 thou shalt not be double-minded or double-tongued, for to be double tongued is the snare of death. 2:5 Thy speech shall not be false or empty, but concerned with action. 2:6 Thou shalt not be covetous, or rapacious, or hypocritical, or malicious, or proud; thou shalt not take up an evil design against thy neighbour; 2:7 thou shalt not hate any man, but some thou shalt confute, concerning some thou shalt pray, and some thou shalt love beyond thine own soul. CHAPTER 3 3:1 My child, fly from everything that is evil, and from everything that is like to it. 3:2 Be not wrathful, for wrath leadeth unto slaughter; be not jealous, or contentious, or quarrelsome, for from all these things slaughter ensues. 3:3 My child, be not lustful, for lust leadeth unto fornication; be not a filthy talker; be not a lifter up of the eye, for from all these things come adulteries. 3:4 My child, be not an observer of omens, since it leadeth to idolatry, nor a user of spells, nor an astrologer, nor a travelling purifier, nor wish to see these things, for from all these things idolatry ariseth. 3:5 My child, be not a liar, for lying leadeth unto theft; be not covetous or conceited, for from all these things thefts arise. 3:6 My child, be not a murmurer, since it leadeth unto blasphemy; be not self-willed or evil-minded, for from all these things blasphemies are produced; 3:7 but be thou meek, for the meek shall inherit the earth; 3:8 be thou longsuffering, and compassionate, and harmless, and peaceable, and good, and fearing alway the words that thou hast heard. 3:9 Thou shalt not exalt thyself, neither shalt thou put boldness into thy soul. Thy soul shall not be joined unto the lofty, but thou shalt walk with the just and humble. 3:10 Accept the things that happen to thee as good, knowing that without God nothing happens. CHAPTER 4 4:1 My child, thou shalt remember both night and day him that speaketh unto thee the Word of God; thou shalt honour him as thou dost the Lord, for where the teaching of the Lord is given, there is the Lord; 4:2 thou shalt seek out day by day the favour of the saints, that thou mayest rest in their words; 4:3 thou shalt not desire schism, but shalt set at peace them that contend; thou shalt judge righteously; thou shalt not accept the person of any one to convict him of transgression; 4:4 thou shalt not doubt whether a thing shall be or not. 4:5 Be not a stretcher out of thy hand to receive, and a drawer of it back in giving. 4:6 If thou hast, give by means of thy hands a redemption for thy sins. 4:7 Thou shalt not doubt to give, neither shalt thou murmur when giving; for thou shouldest know who is the fair recompenser of the reward. 4:8 Thou shalt not turn away from him that is in need, but shalt share with thy brother in all things, and shalt not say that things are thine own; for if ye are partners in what is immortal, how much more in what is mortal? 4:9 Thou shalt not remove thine heart from thy son or from thy daughter, but from their youth shalt teach them the fear of God. 4:10 Thou shalt not command with bitterness thy servant or thy handmaid, who hope in the same God as thyself, lest they fear not in consequence the God who is over both; for he cometh not to call with respect of persons, but those whom the Spirit hath prepared. 4:11 And do ye servants submit yourselves to your masters with reverence and fear, as being the type of God. 4:12 Thou shalt hate all hypocrisy and everything that is not pleasing to God; 4:13 thou shalt not abandon the commandments of the Lord, but shalt guard that which thou hast received, neither adding thereto nor taking therefrom; 4:14 thou shalt confess thy transgressions in the Church, and shalt not come unto prayer with an evil conscience. This is the path of life. CHAPTER 5 5:1 But the path of death is this. First of all, it is evil, and full of cursing; there are found murders, adulteries, lusts, fornication, thefts, idolatries, soothsaying, sorceries, robberies, false witnessings, hypocrisies, double-mindedness, craft, pride, malice, self-will, covetousness, filthy talking, jealousy, audacity, pride, arrogance; 5:2 there are they who persecute the good -- lovers of a lie, not knowing the reward of righteousness, not cleaving to the good nor to righteous judgment, watching not for the good but for the bad, from whom meekness and patience are afar off, loving things that are vain, following after recompense, having no compassion on the needy, nor labouring for him that is in trouble, not knowing him that made them, murderers of children, corrupters of the image of God, who turn away from him that is in need, who oppress him that is in trouble, unjust judges of the poor, erring in all things. From all these, children, may ye be delivered. CHAPTER 6 6:1 See that no one make thee to err from this path of doctrine, since he who doeth so teacheth thee apart from God. 6:2 If thou art able to bear the whole yoke of the Lord, thou wilt be perfect; but if thou art not able, what thou art able, that do. 6:3 But concerning meat, bear that which thou art able to do. But keep with care from things sacrificed to idols, for it is the worship of the infernal deities.

For the whole Didache: www.monachos.net...
edit on 2-4-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-4-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 
Well said, as always. And always greatly appreciated.


reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 
yes, because Google is needed in order to know Scripture 'as well as you do,' right? But don't worry, I won't tell anyone that the very manner of all that you post clearly shows you copy and paste every bit of it. [Btw, for future reference, I've my own Bible if I need to consult the Lord's Word, dear. I don't need you to piece together bits of it for me. Nor do I need to know how expertly you know how to use Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V.]

Remember, when I messaged you first, I asked a question which you never answered. When you messaged me, it was about Islam first, then about whom people are apparently 'supposed' to learn scripture from. Had nothing to do with 'keeping the commandments' until you threw your ego around and made it clear that YOU, of all people on this thread 'keep all the laws.'

You then apparently got off track, taking it upon yourself to assume that I don't keep the commandments nor the holy days, and that I celebrate pagan holidays. Imo, obeying the Word of God is common sense... When I read about His laws, I got it the first time.

Were you having that hard a time understanding them that other humans had to spoon feed it to you for you to get the point? Is that not disgracing God by not using the mind you were blessed with?

I know I said I wouldn't respond, but I felt compelled to. And actually, it seems like a good thing that you don't attribute your knowledge to Our Father. God's message is not, never has been and never will be flawed. Yours is.

Take care.
edit on 4/2/2011 by Debunker75 because: readjusted formatting



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by TheIsraelite777

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by TheIsraelite777 No. There is no such thing as a trinity. the Bible does not support it. And before you go off posting scriptures, let me remind you Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 were both added in by Constantine. Neither one of two verses were found in the earlier Greek translations.


I read those verses, and I note that first John 5:7 admits that "...and these three are one." Further, if these verses were inserted by Constantine, then Ivan Panin, the mathematician of the Bible, would have noticed the break in the mathematical codes which run from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. Your position is untenable.


I just posted my sources. This matter is official closed, whether or not you read them.


Ouch! I'd wager you did not research Ivan Panin, either...



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 08:13 PM
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I just ignored your little rant, considering you didn't look at any of the evidence. Goodbye!



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Debunker75
reply to post by kallisti36
 
Well said, as always. And always greatly appreciated.


reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 
yes, because Google is needed in order to know Scripture 'as well as you do,' right? But don't worry, I won't tell anyone that the very manner of all that you post clearly shows you copy and paste every bit of it. [Btw, for future reference, I've my own Bible if I need to consult the Lord's Word, dear. I don't need you to piece together bits of it for me. Nor do I need to know how expertly you know how to use Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V.]

Remember, when I messaged you first, I asked a question which you never answered. When you messaged me, it was about Islam first, then about whom people are apparently 'supposed' to learn scripture from. Had nothing to do with 'keeping the commandments' until you threw your ego around and made it clear that YOU, of all people on this thread 'keep all the laws.'

You then apparently got off track, taking it upon yourself to assume that I don't keep the commandments nor the holy days, and that I celebrate pagan holidays. Imo, obeying the Word of God is common sense... When I read about His laws, I got it the first time.

Were you having that hard a time understanding them that other humans had to spoon feed it to you for you to get the point? Is that not disgracing God by not using the mind you were blessed with?

I know I said I wouldn't respond, but I felt compelled to. And actually, it seems like a good thing that you don't attribute your knowledge to Our Father. God's message is not, never has been and never will be flawed. Yours is.

Take care.
edit on 4/2/2011 by Debunker75 because: readjusted formatting


Haha, I got these scriptures memorized in my head, brah. All I do is go to biblegateway, copy and paste the scripture. You probably go to websites that explain what the scriptures mean.. Look, don't comment me no more if your not going to use the scriptures. I don't have time for your ranting and raving.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 


Your ideas are western inventions. The worst of these being your attonement doctrine which is born of the heretical "Satisfaction" doctrine of the Crucifixion (invented by a Roman Catholic no less). I could go on and on about how Penal Substitution is the worst heresy to sneak into Western Christianity, but I already did that. So, to save time, go to my thread pertaining to the TRUE reason for the Crucifixion: www.abovetopsecret.com... In short propitiary attonement and penal substitution make God an obstacle in our salvation.

You are a Black Yisraelite then? First of all the Jews of the OT certainly weren't white, but were more akin to Middle Easterners with unique Semitic characteristics, such as larger noses and prominent brows. Africans are not Semitic, it's that simple. Now, there are white Jews and Black Jews, but that's because of interbreeding and conversions after the Diaspora. So we wind up with white Jews in Europe and Black Jews (Beta Yisraelites) in Ethiopia who are supposedly the lost tribe of Dan (also MOSTLY ORTHODOX now).

When Ya'hshuah said that he came to fulfill the law and not destroy it, he meant bring it to fruition with his birth and the establishment of a New Covenant. When he said "whoever breaks one of these commandments or teaches others to do so shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven" that was right before he expounded on the laws of the New Covenant. Furthermore, if you look at the Acts of the Apostles and see what transpired at the Council of Jerusalem you will notice that they did not require circumcision or any of the Mosaic Law to be pressed on converts. This shows that a different kind of law was in place. Early Christian writing confirms that the Law of the New Covenant given at the Sermon on the Mount was the New Law that Christians were to keep. Here is a transcript of the first six chapters of the Didache (A.D. 100 at least):

For the whole Didache: www.monachos.net...
edit on 2-4-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-4-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)


BTW, no SINNER is getting into the kingdom. I don't care who you are, I don't care what you do, if you are a sinner you are not getting anywhere near the kingdom.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Timothy 3:1-4

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Revelation 21:8

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Romans 1:29-32

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 


Your ideas are western inventions. The worst of these being your attonement doctrine which is born of the heretical "Satisfaction" doctrine of the Crucifixion (invented by a Roman Catholic no less). I could go on and on about how Penal Substitution is the worst heresy to sneak into Western Christianity, but I already did that. So, to save time, go to my thread pertaining to the TRUE reason for the Crucifixion: www.abovetopsecret.com... In short propitiary attonement and penal substitution make God an obstacle in our salvation.

You are a Black Yisraelite then? First of all the Jews of the OT certainly weren't white, but were more akin to Middle Easterners with unique Semitic characteristics, such as larger noses and prominent brows. Africans are not Semitic, it's that simple. Now, there are white Jews and Black Jews, but that's because of interbreeding and conversions after the Diaspora. So we wind up with white Jews in Europe and Black Jews (Beta Yisraelites) in Ethiopia who are supposedly the lost tribe of Dan (also MOSTLY ORTHODOX now).

When Ya'hshuah said that he came to fulfill the law and not destroy it, he meant bring it to fruition with his birth and the establishment of a New Covenant. When he said "whoever breaks one of these commandments or teaches others to do so shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven" that was right before he expounded on the laws of the New Covenant. Furthermore, if you look at the Acts of the Apostles and see what transpired at the Council of Jerusalem you will notice that they did not require circumcision or any of the Mosaic Law to be pressed on converts. This shows that a different kind of law was in place. Early Christian writing confirms that the Law of the New Covenant given at the Sermon on the Mount was the New Law that Christians were to keep. Here is a transcript of the first six chapters of the Didache (A.D. 100 at least):

For the whole Didache: www.monachos.net...
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Continued...

Ephesians 5:3-6

3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Psalm 1:5-6 (King James Version)

5Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Psalm 5:5-6 (King James Version)

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

As bad as it may seem, i'm actual trying to get you all to repent, stop sinning, and be baptized in Jesus Christ name. Something is definitely wrong with the world. If you "christians" knew the Illuminati, you would know they infiltrated Christianity a long time ago. Christianity now is not the Christianity that started out in Paul's day. Christianity now is slam full of paganism, which is going to cost a bunch of people their salvation



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 


I know what you're getting at, I do believe in sin. I just believe that we have a New Law and a New Covenant. Sola Fide is another issue that has absolutely decimated Western Christianity. It's sad because it's so easily refuted. Ya'hshuah is the Way, the Shepard, the Door, and the straight and narrow path. A way is traveled, a shepard is followed, one must pass through a door, and a path is walked. You are speaking to an Eastern Orthodox and thus preaching to the choir. Our Christianity is ascetic, we know effort has to be made.

Now regarding your passages pertaining to who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and Who will not, I think you need context. Paul is extolling the Church in these letters to act as Christians and not be Christian in name only. The people addressed have backslid in their ways. Fornicators, Murderers, and thieves will not enter Heaven only those born again as children of God.


1Cr 5:1 ¶ It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Cr 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,
1Cr 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Here is the initial context; sin has crept into the Church at Corinth. In 5:5 he is recommending excommunication for the sake of the Church (a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump) and the sake of the man in question so that he might repent. Ya'hshuah said you are to accept your brother's repentance "seventy times seven" meaning for as often as one repents they are forgiven by their brothers and forgiven by God if they are honest. The importance is to be humble and to see yourself as a sinner. Self assuredness leads to pride which is the worst of all sins because of it's subtlety. Sin is sickness that impedes our reunion with our Father, but faith will always illuminate a path ahead if we are humble and repentant and willing to take up our cross. Beware self righteousness, because it is so horrendously common among the faithful these days. Remember Matthew 21



28But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. 32For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

You see, by the Grace of God the harlot ceases to be the harlot and the publican ceases to be the publican and all become Children of God. We are not justified by the works OF THE LAW (caps for emphasis for the benefit of Sola Fide adherents) but by Grace. The works of the Law could never restore the bridge between God and Man, but it could after generations bring one capable of bearing God (Theotokos) and like the burning bush, not be consumed. So, after this was accomplished God took the opportunity to repair the bridge himself. No man could have done this, not even by the works of the law, because of our nature is a fallen one. So we are saved by the Grace of God and his establishment of a path back to Him we were saved, but it is up to us to accept this gift and FOLLOW (denotes action) Christ; the Way, the Truth, and the Life. When Paul and James are talking about works they are speaking of two different kinds of works. Paul is speaking of the works of the Mosaic Law which we are freed from, because the Old Law is fulfilled. James is speaking of works by faith and makes no mention of Mosaic Law. This can be seen when he gives examples of works by faith such as the actions of Abraham and Rahab. Abraham lived centuries before the Mosaic Law and Rahab was not a Jew. So, the Royal Law cannot be Mosaic Law, especially since James conceded at the Council of Jerusalem that Gentile converts need not submit to circumcision and Mosaic Law. So either you see James speaking of the works Ya'hshuah called us to do in the New Covenant or you believe that James contradicts all of the New Testament.

As for your point concerning Illuminati infiltration of Christianity; perhaps, but not those that remained unified. You will notice a recurring theme among the writings of the Church Fathers "listen to your bishops concerning doctrine, they know what they're talking about. Don't split hairs over private interpretations of scripture (See 2Peter 1:20 and 3:15-16) God forbid you make schisms". This is why apostolic succession came to be so valued in the original Church, it was how Bishops and Priests showed their credibility. When people like Manichaeus and Marcion popped up trying to divide the Christians, they were met by Tertullian and Iraneus who demanded a list of succession (nothing). However, when credible Bishops like Arius popped up spouting heresies, ecumenical councils were needed so that the Holy Spirit might decide what is truth. Thanks to this, Arius failed to legitimize his doctrines of adoptionism and anti-trinitarianism both of which can be refuted with scripture. He also, during a moment of defiance and pride wound up crapping out his intestines; call it divine intervention or stomach cancer, one thing is for certain: that heresy was not allowed the providence to continue. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that there has to be a form of Church that descends from the apostles "that the gates of Hades will not prevail against". If there was a heresy and that crept into the main body of the Church, leading to mass apostacy, then the gates of Hades prevailed against the Church. Arianism died after a few hundred years, later resurrected by cultists with Bibles edited for their own sectarian agendas (no apostollic succession, just private interpretations). Gnostics for the most part, died out, and didn't have apostollic succession anyways. The only Churches with an uninterrupted 2,000 year old history are the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholics, and the Assyrian Church of the East. The Roman Church descended into very visible apostacy with their crusades, inquisitions, indulgences, and simony. The Assyrian Church of the East is an offshoot of Nestorianism and is mostly centered in Syria and what was once Persia, but not the Holy Land. The Oriental Orthodox and monophysites are obviously wrong in their understanding of the dual nature of Christ (son of man, son of God), but for the most part are very similar to the Eastern Orthodox with their liturgies and icons. The separation is slowly healing as dialogue opens between the EO and OO. All other Churches are centuries removed from the apostles or spring from the apostate Roman Church unwittingly keeping their Roman Catholic hangups (hell as a torture room and juridical understanding of sin).

Bearing Ya'hshuah's prophecy to Peter in mind, how could the Illuminati infiltrate the enduring Church unless like Rome it so utterly apostasized and separated itself from the Church? What's so interesting about Eastern Orthodoxy is that we, like every other denomination, have good leaders and bad leaders. However, unlike Rome which is so centralized, when we have a bad leader he has little effect on the Church because no one has authority over the whole Church; every issue is settled democratically. Patriarchs have often been deposed or reinstated. The people are the ones who see our leaders and monastics for who they are and only the good ones are remembered. We celebrate St. John Chrysostom's liturgy constantly and yet can't even remember the names of the Bishops who he accused of hypocrisy and underhanded politics. Also, you can't fall back on the tired Protestant defense of "CONSTANTINE WAS A PAGAN AND MESSED WITH THE CANON AND TOLD THE BISHOPS AT NICEA WHAT TO DO AND AND JUST USED CHRISTIANITY TO PUSH HIS OWN AGENDAAAA!!11!one", because some people actually know history. The BS surrounding Constantine makes my head spin. Yes he built pagan monuments to appease pagans, but he didn't invent so called "pagan holidays" like Christmas (Which many EO celebrate on a different day) and Pascha (also celebrated apart from Easter). Constantine was immature in his faith and called the Council of Nicea for his own benefit, to settle the Arian vs. Trinitarian debate. He did not preside over it and did not influence the outcome. Yes, he ended 300 years of Christian pacifism, but this can also be chalked up to immature faith. The fact that he lived his last days by the Jordan river putting off his baptism as long as possible to "wash away as much sin as possible" shows humility and genuine repentance. All of that aside, I disagree with my Orthodox brothers concerning his Beatification (Sainthood), he was no paragon of the faith, despite what he did for Christians. And you know what? I am allowed this opinion, it is up for debate. We don't dogmatize theological opinion. I could argue for whatever I want whether it be predestinationism, soul sleep, or annihilationism, so long as it doesn't contradict dogma (Trinity, Mary as Theotokos, etc). Furthermore, the Eastern Orthodox Church was independent of the State until Emperor Theodosius and even then it didn't wield power like the See of Rome. And if you believe that any form of State influence corrupts, then you should know that the Eastern Orthodox, with the exception of the Russians have been stateless for a millennia thanks to Muslim conquest and the Crusades (of which the Orthodox were victims). This is all the moot point however, because if you believe that the original Church was infiltrated by the Illuminati and made Satanic, then you might as well become a Jew because you are calling Ya'hshuah a liar.
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edit on 5-4-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by TheIsraelite777
 


Here is a series that addresses the myths concerning Constantine and Nicea:



Your claims are a good 400 years old (Protestant Reformation) and are easily refuted by history.
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posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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Nowhere does it say in any of the scripture I posted the born again Christians will enter the kingdom. And I doubt anyone on this earth is born again, because Jesus said to be born again, you have to have your spiritual body, like the angels, and the only time people are going to get their spiritual body, is at the 2nd coming of the Lord. No other time will people be born again.. Jesus said that himself! He said you have to be born of spirit, and water. So you have to be baptized, and you have to have your spiritual body.

John 3:1-4 (King James Version)

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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The only funny thing is, HISTORIANS wrote about Constantine and his new pagan Sunday worship. Don't try to refute something that's already set in stone, brah. I'll start to name the historians that wrote about Constantine and all his paganism if you keep on, then you going to look real bad, cause you didn't know what you was talking about. You just searched on google about it, I bet, and those are the videos you found, which everything in the videos are lies.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by TheIsraelite777


Nowhere does it say in any of the scripture I posted the born again Christians will enter the kingdom. And I doubt anyone on this earth is born again, because Jesus said to be born again, you have to have your spiritual body, like the angels, and the only time people are going to get their spiritual body, is at the 2nd coming of the Lord. No other time will people be born again.. Jesus said that himself! He said you have to be born of spirit, and water. So you have to be baptized, and you have to have your spiritual body.

John 3:1-4 (King James Version)

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


Hey, of course! Lets just stop there with that passage. Oh wait, there's more?



5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

In order to have a "spiritual body" you would have to be in Heaven and Ya'hshuah says here that you can't enter unless you are born again by water and spirit. I also take issue with "spiritual body" because it sounds gnostic. Matter is not inherently sinful and disgusting, when Ya'hshuah was resurrected he was resurrected in the flesh perfected. The Orthodox understanding of this is called apocatastasis or redemption of matter. Ya'hshuah came a "little lower than the angels" "putting on sinful flesh" so that after the resurrection he would be perfected. "I am not a spirit" he said as Thomas put his fingers into his hands and side. At the resurrection we are united body and spirit and our flesh is redeemed and no longer sinful.

What you are doing is reversing Paul's metaphor of baptism when he says



Romans 6:4 (New King James Version) 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

He is saying by metaphor that baptism is like being buried in Christ so as to take part in his resurrection and be born anew while still alive on Earth. You are reversing this by saying that to be buried in Christ is baptism and only afterwards can we be born again "in spirit"
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posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by TheIsraelite777


The only funny thing is, HISTORIANS wrote about Constantine and his new pagan Sunday worship. Don't try to refute something that's already set in stone, brah. I'll start to name the historians that wrote about Constantine and all his paganism if you keep on, then you going to look real bad, cause you didn't know what you was talking about. You just searched on google about it, I bet, and those are the videos you found, which everything in the videos are lies.

New?! Are you kidding me? Sunday worship has been around since the first century, Constantine did not invent it. But you're right, let's not try and refute something set in stone, let's let the Church Fathers speak for themselves:



We have seen how former adherents of the ancient customs have since attained to a new hope; so that they have given up keeping the sabbath, and now order their lives by the Lord's Day instead (the day when life first dawned for us, thanks to Him and His death.) —St. Ignatius of Antioch, To the Magnesians, chapter 9

Oh, but how important can that be right? Oh, I don't know maybe because St. Ignatius of Antioch was born in 35 A.D. and reposed 108 A.D. which is 160 years before Constantine was born! On top of that, St. Ignatius, along with his friend St. Polycarp were disciples of ST. JOHN THE APOSTLE and he succeeded St. Peter and St. Evodius as Bishop of Antioch (which was the first Christian mission I might add).




"But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented of the sins which they have committed, they shall receive the inheritance along with the patriarchs and the prophets, and the just men who are descended from Jacob, even although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumcised, nor observe the feasts." —St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 26

"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead." —St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, 67


Oh another famous Church Father from the mid second century and another century before Constantine was a twinkle in his father's eye. Starting to look like Constantine's "new pagan Sunday worship" wasn't so novel after all.




By us, to whom Sabbaths are strange, and the new moons and festivals formerly beloved by God, the Saturnalia and New-year's and Midwinter's festivals and Matronalia are frequented--presents come and go--New-year's gifts--games join their noise--banquets join their din! Oh better fidelity of the nations to their own sect, which claims no solemnity of the Christians for itself! Not the Lord's day, not Pentecost, even it they had known them, would they have shared with us; for they would fear lest they should seem to be Christians. We are not apprehensive lest we seem to be heathens! If any indulgence is to be granted to the flesh, you have it. I will not say your own days, but more too; for to the heathens each festive day occurs but once annually: you have a festive day every eighth day. —Tertullian, On Idolatry, 14

Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is a well-known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity. —Tertullian, Ad Nationes, 1:13

Not a Saint, but a respected Church Father and historian none the less. He reposed 40 years before Constantine was born.




'For in respect of the observance of the eighth day of the Jewish circumcision of the flesh, a sacrament was given beforehand in shadow and in usage; but when Christ came, it was fulfilled in truth. For because the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, was to be that on which the Lord should rise again, and should quicken us, and give us circumcision of the spirit, the eighth day, that is the first day after the Sabbath, and the Lord's Day, went before in the figure; which figure ceased when by and by the truth came and spiritual circumcision was given to us —St. Cyprian, Letter LVIII

And now we have gotten to the mid 3rd century and this all seems rather established now. St. Cyprian reposed 12 years before Constantine was born.

Not convinced by the Church Fathers who gave their lives for the Church? Let me just point out that Ya'hshuah NEVER EVER EVER said anything about having to keep the Sabbath to be saved. All of his appearances and days of significance after the resurrection (which was SUNDAY) occur on Sunday. I'm lazy so I found a list:


1. Jesus rose on the first day of the week not the Sabbath: Mk 16:9 2. All 6 appearances of Jesus happen on two Sundays, none on Sabbath. Mk 16:9; Mt 28:5-9; Lk 24:34; Lk 24:13-15; Lk 24:33,36 + Jn 20:19; Jn 20:26 3. Christians are recorded assembling three times on Sunday after resurrection and before ascension, never on the Sabbath. Jn 20:19 Jn 20:26 Acts 2:1 (We do not claim that these were worship services, just the early starting point of Sunday gatherings) 4. The only time Christians are recorded to have assembled together was on a Sunday in Acts 20:7, never does it say the disciples assembled on the Sabbath. 5. The only day ever mentioned when Christians broke bread was on Sunday: Acts 20:7 6. Christians are commanded every Sunday to give into a common treasury of the church: 1 Cor 16:1-2 7. Jesus was declared the Son of God on Sunday: Rom 1:4 8. Ps 2:7 "Today I have begotten thee" was fulfilled on Sunday when he rose: Acts 13:33 9. The sign that Jesus was glorified was given on Sunday: Jn 7:39 + Acts 2:1,32 10. The church officially began on Pentecost Sunday: Acts 2:1 11. Jesus was crowned king on a Sunday: Acts 2:33-36 12. The sign that Jesus was glorified was given on Sunday: Jn 7:39 + Acts 2:1,32 13. The church officially began on Pentecost Sunday: Acts 2:1 14. The disciples reception of the promise of the Father on Sunday: Acts 1:4-5; 2:1-4 15. The Holy Spirit first fell upon the apostles on a Sunday: Acts 2:1-4 16. Salvation first preached by Peter on Sunday: Mt 16:19; Acts 2:1,38,40-41 17. The Keys to the Kingdom of God were first used on Sunday: Mt 16:19 18. The great "Triumphal entry" (also called "Palm Sunday") happened on the first day: Luke 13:32 19. The time between the Lord’s resurrection (sheaf waving day) and Pentecost was Sunday to Sunday counting of 50 days. The starting and stopping time was on the 1st day. 20. First time Jesus worshiped after resurrection was on the first day by Thomas (Jn. 20:26). 21. The first time we could be born again to a living hope was on a Sunday: 1 Pet. 1:3 22. The first time Jesus had communion after his resurrection with His disciples, was on a Sunday: (Lk. 24:1, 13, 28-35) 23. Pentecost was a Sunday - Sunday duration of 50 days. The starting point and stopping point of counting the 50 days was a Sunday - Sunday period!

You have history and the Bible arguing against you. Yes, early Christians worshiped on the Sabbath... in Synagogues next to non-believers, because "that was their custom", not "commandment". Anyway this is all the moot point since Orthodox hold services on Saturdays too.

However, I understand your concern in regards to Constantine legitimizing the day


On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost

Venerable day of the Sun is clearly pagan sun worship, however the day of rest is an entirely Jewish concept. There was no Roman day of rest before this, so why did Constantine implement it? Because he was a Christian! Why the Pagan title? So, he wouldn't be accused of favoritism towards his new found religion and because as emperor he was still High Priest of the Empire. So, he made it sound as pagan as possible. Is this to be commended? Yes and no. He legitimized a Christian day of rest but brought in solar worship connotations. As I said, I don't agree with Constantine on much, he was a very immature Christian.

Seriously though, what are these sources that will "make me look bad"? Is it Ellen White? Calvin? Wesley? Rationalist scholars centuries removed from the people in question with an axe to grind against orthodox Christianity (little o because I'm including most Christians)? You are using pre-packaged reformist, SDA, and Jehovah Witness arguments to support your splinter group of black nationalist psuedo-Jews when all of these people would turn around and call you a heretic the first chance they got.
edit on 8-4-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)
edit on 8-4-2011 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)





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