To The Brightest Minds On ATS, What Can Be Done To Get Our Country Back ?

You sure can! Get enough Computer Programmers and Notaries together to create and witness this massive document collection. ***I will gladly volunteer as a coder for the database, however I cannot work alone***, we will need others too, as I am sure there are other types of occupations that would be needed that I simply overlooked.

Originally posted by Gools
On the economic side of things. I would hope that we could do more than decide which finite resource comming out of the planet is most worhty of our avarice.

That's why monetarist policy and "fiat" money were devised. It does, at least in theory, put the control of the money supply in the hands of elected governments rather than those who just happen to have more of the yellow stuff. It also aids liquidity.

We need a serious look at a new economic paradigm. Ideas from all parts of the political spectrum need to be looked at and the best from each molded into a new sustainable paradigm. The entire system we have now is based on continuous and neverending profit increases with no end in sight. How do you think the rich STAY rich?

You are dead right. the whole capitalist model is based on the idea of an ever expanding economy. The problem with this partadigm is that, at least since the industrial revolution, it has tended to favour the expansion of the economy through expanded resource usage and production. That does not NEED to be the case. EDIT : The problem, economically, is not capitalism, it's industrialization, plus the usual smattering of political corruption and incompetence of course.

We are now entering the information age, where economic activity can be germinated without expending resources. Think service economy, entertainments, application of individual skills and talents. Think artisans, agents, service providers, films, music, TV, etc etc. Think manpower, rather than engine power.

Think of a world were yes, we have less "stuff", but we are better educated. we make "stuff" last longer. We'll buy hand made "stuff" from local workshops, and have it repaired when it breaks.

What I'm saying is economic activity, and resource use, don't HAVE to be intrinsically linked, which means a sustainable, expanding economy is at least in theory possible.

The alternative is war. Lots of them.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by muppet]

[edit on 21-7-2004 by muppet]

Originally posted by marg6043
.... then ban any rich person from becoming a political candidate and ....

Class War at it's best! Behold the Evil Rich (as dracula organ music plays in the background). Define the term "rich" for me there, Marg. What exactly is wrong with being rich? It's a lot better than being poor and if you were rich (and you tell us often that you are not), I bet you would think so too.

This is why these emotionally based ideas and solutions scare me a lot more than the problems you think we have. People don't seem to reason this stuff out, they just react to the fact that they aren't getting what they want, when they want it.

Short Attention Span Politics (tm) is a dangerous as anything else out there when in fact we are all subject to social change and flux. As has been pointed out elsewhere, Societies run in cycles. Unlucky us to be on the tailend of the apathy era where the short soundbite is the only thing that makes it through the info-overload into the biomass.

okay crysstaafur, you can be a coder, can you now remove my info

[edit on 21-7-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

Yet again do-nothing "busy work" disguised as political activisim. I know, lets form a committee, and get some fundraising, and a proper name. That will take 6 months, then we will be able to stick our fingers up our asses and think that we are doing something ...

Come on, surely you can do better than this?
Nothing will change, nothing will be accomplished as there is no plan, no structure. With out clear achievable goals you are all just pissing in the wind. But if it occupies an evening, and there is nothing else on TV, then go ahead...

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
can we form a document that can be passed from the local level that can be signed by citizens and then logged or sent to a central database of signatures ?

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
okay crysstaafaar, you can be a coder, can you now remove my info

that will only show up for you.. don't worry! Each user sees their own details there. Anyone can use their own avatar or sig to do this if it's hosted on their own servers. nothing to worry about. The technique is often used to track users of bulletin boards by nosey people

Corporations are clearly the theives that have stolen American. I originally posted a comment here concerning corporations but decided it was better served as a seperate topic.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 21-7-2004 by df1]

[edit on 21-7-2004 by df1]

Originally posted by Gools

Originally posted by donguillermo
Look, you can call me a political partisan if you want to, but the first and most important thing to do is to vote George Bush out of office.

Hear! Hear!

The mentally challenged (call it uncurious if you must) should not be able to become commander in chief and run the country's economy.

It isn't just that he is mentally challenged and uncurious. Four more years of George Bush will mean the end of the United States as we know it. Bush and his thugs have had to restrain themselves somewhat in order to win reelection. I guarantee you, if Bush is reelected, he will transform this country into a theocratic, national-security police state. Good God, the man already claims the right to imprison any American citizen indefinitely, with no charges filed and no right to see an attorney, on his say so alone.

You people laugh at me when I tell you Bush = Hitler. If Bush is reelected, the velvet gloves will come off, and you will see the naked fists of fascist totalitarianism. Then you will be telling me I am a prophet.

And we will have wars. The Bush Crime Family is already beating the drums for a war against Iran. I guarantee you. 4 more years = 4 more wars. The Bush doctrine of preemptive war is a clear violation of the United Nations Charter, which, in case you didn't know it, is the supreme law of the land. Article Six of the Constitution states "This Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

Got that? All treaties made under the authority of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land. The United Nations Charter is clearly a treaty, as the word is commonly defined. When George Bush attacked Iraq without approval of the United Nations Security Council, he violated the United Nations Charter, which is the supreme law of the land. He thus violated his oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. Clearly, he committed an impeachable offense. Yet as long as Republicans control the House of Representatives, no impeachment proceedings will ever be initiated. Future illegal wars by George Bush will also not stir the Republicans in the House to action.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
What can we do to remove them first and then the others asap ?

[edit on 21-7-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

Read the book " Unintended Concequences" by John Ross. Great fiction...............
www.mindtoysrus.com...


[edit on 21-7-2004 by All Seeing Eye]

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
This is why these emotionally based ideas and solutions scare me a lot more than the problems you think we have. People don't seem to reason this stuff out, they just react to the fact that they aren't getting what they want, when they want it.

Ambient Sound. I see where you are comming from. I don't agree with it.

Have you ever heard of a book called "Voltair's Bastards" by John Ralston Saul? I think you would enjoy it. It's about the Dictatorship of Reason we now live under.

The solution in my opinion is to always check our reasonning without getting cemented into a position. Otherwise we get trapped into a mode of reasonning that we cannot escape from. I think that is where scociety is now.

We need new "memes"

we should start a civil war in the next year.....and take our rights

How are plans created Netchicken? One (common) person cannot say this is the way it is going to be done and seriously expect execution. However I do concur that most people are so apathetic that they will change tunes the moment something seems out of their control or vision. why just look above. I think we are on the same frequency now. I will still volunteer, but I am not foolish enough to go alone. Let's put the cards on the table, otherwise Netchicken is right.

a very simple plan would be to create a documents that states our agenda, create a website and a PO box to e-mail or send the petitions to and then start locally passing out the petitions, post them on other websites and any other way we can come up with to distribute the petitions at a minimal cost, All work should be volunteer so that no one gets rich. The only thing I would suggest is a small fund from donations for website upkeep which should be minimal. what are your thoughts ?
I also feel we need to find a way to remove the corupt judges first, for they will try to find a way to overturn our petitions at every level.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
a very simple plan would be to create a documents that states our agenda, create a website and a PO box to e-mail or send the petitions to and then start locally passing out the petitions, post them on other websites and any other way we can come up with to distribute the petitions at a minimal cost, All work should be volunteer so that no one gets rich. The only thing I would suggest is a small fund from donations for website upkeep which should be minimal. what are your thoughts ?

Jesus H. Christ. Have you read my posts? George Bush is pushing the federal government into bankruptcy, and is well on his way to transforming the United States into a theocratic national-security police state. And you are talking about setting up websites and circulating petitions???

Drive Bush and his corrupt band of thugs from the White House first. Then you can set up all the websites and circulate all the petitions you want. If Bush is reelected, people who set up websites and circulate petitions opposing the government will be escorted by jackbooted brownshirts to government reeducation centers.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
a very simple plan would be to create a documents that states our agenda, create a website and a PO box to e-mail or send the petitions to and then start locally passing out the petitions, post them on other websites and any other way we can come up with to distribute the petitions at a minimal cost, All work should be volunteer so that no one gets rich. The only thing I would suggest is a small fund from donations for website upkeep which should be minimal. what are your thoughts ?
I also feel we need to find a way to remove the corupt judges first, for they will try to find a way to overturn our petitions at every level.

[edit on 21-7-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

Then what? We submit the petition and its ignored?

Originally posted by Gools

Ambient Sound. I see where you are comming from. I don't agree with it.

Have you ever heard of a book called "Voltair's Bastards" by John Ralston Saul? I think you would enjoy it. It's about the Dictatorship of Reason we now live under.

The solution in my opinion is to always check our reasonning without getting cemented into a position. Otherwise we get trapped into a mode of reasonning that we cannot escape from. I think that is where scociety is now.

We need new "memes"

I understand what you mean about memes, and I will agree with that, however I believe that part of our problem is that our technology is forcing change upon us much quicker than at any previous time in history. Our social and moral (and spiritial?) evolution is not keeping up with the tech. We have issues to deal with now that few could even imagine just 100 years ago. In one generation (the one in power now, btw) the face of the world has completely changed, and not just once. Is it surprising that we don't have a clue about how to deal with it?

If you ask me, things can't be any other way right now. We are doing the best we can do considering human nature, how far we have had to come, and how far we have yet to go.

I find it amusing when people talk about "taking our country back". Who exactly are you going to take it back from? The Government? Got news for ya. They are almost all Americans. Going to take it back from the Corperations? Most of them that you think own it are staffed and owned by, yep, Americans. Why not say what you really mean? Why not say that you want to take it back from the other Americans who don't agree with how you think things should be? Wouldn't that be closer to the truth?

I agree with you wholeheartedly D, but don't we need a petition to get him out ? Maybe the petition should list all those we want removed from office, from bush on down. Maybe we can start by compiling a list for the petition and then begin circulation.

Ironically, if we do anything more than merely protest in verbal, typed, or written form we will be marked as terrorists. Wait, we can vote, nevermind it's either
beans and cheese or it's cheese and beans.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Maybe the petition should list all those we want removed from office, from bush on down.

Did any of you watch the MM movie, all those black people had petitions, They where all told to sit down, why? no one on the senate(sp) signed it.

Petitions are crap, unless you have someone high on it.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound

... evolution is not keeping up with the tech. ... Is it surprising that we don't have a clue about how to deal with it?

I agree that technology is out of control. Wo do things simply because they can be done. Not that they should be done. My science background has taught me that. EDIT:"We need to stop blind investment into technology and make sure that is is developped and applied responsibly rather than leaving it up to economic forces. (I could go on at lenght on this topic)"

Why not say that you want to take it back from the other Americans who don't agree with how you think things should be? Wouldn't that be closer to the truth?

That is essentially what it comes down too and I do not beleive it has to be by force.

[edit on 7/21/2004 by Gools]