Chemtrail Debunkers Misinformation Conspiracy

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posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 



Agents are pretty easy to spot. They appear on threads almost immediately, and keep on going and going and going - no matter what the argument, no matter now much info is provided, no matter now much they may get flamed....total resilience is one characteristic of the agent... That's what they're trained and paid to do. Arguing with them plays right into their hands..and helps them derail a thread.


Are you insinuating that MathiasAndrew is an agent? He hops onto threads immediately and keeps on going and going and going - no matter what the argument, no matter now much info is provided, no matter now much he may get flamed. Or are only people you disagree with capable of being an agent?
edit on 18-3-2011 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct formatting.




posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by exroyalnavy
 


Let me start by saying that there is nothing wrong with having a government or military job, it's commendable, and more of us should take part in the structure of today's politics. I almost joined the military at one point in my life, and who knows I still might, I feel good.....but I wont because we don't like secrets, now do we? Or do we? You being a military man should know the answer! But even the military gets lied to unfortunately. I would also like to add that I am sorry if I and those who agree with me offended anyone. I have friends in the military and family within the government and I love them dearly. I will go easy on the terminology from hear on out.

With that being said, Is there any chemtrail debunkers out there that think HAARP should be debunked also?

I've learned that most who like cheerios like milk too.


So, anybody? We must start from the ground and build up ladies and gentlemen.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity

Come on people, I gave you over 24 hours and not a single word, not even from the most passionate! How deep does that rabbit hole go? Even the agents have given up defending themselves........How can your multi-million dollar online persona software with multiple static IP addresses help if they are all still operated by the same people, with the same knowledge, the same tendencies, same beliefs, and so on and so on....

Maybe I should have titled this thread, "Chemtrail and HAARP debunkers scatter when the two sore subjects are used in the same sentence". Or maybe this "Chemtrail and HAARP misinformation constantly separating the two sorest of subjects. Or here the best one yet, "Chemtrails, HAARP, Geo-engineering, and Planetary Crisis: Their Relationship and the People Behind It".

HR.2977.IH

My friend Mr. Dennis Kucinich is (or was...) head of the Armed Services oversight committee, hes from Ohio also! You know how we do it. Chemtrail debunker credibility -1.
edit on 20-3-2011 by ImmortalIntegrity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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Yes, yes - Condemn those who go against your beliefs as the "bad guys" themselves. Good arguement. I take it going by your standards - that vegetarians are involved in poisoning animals so that people stop eating them huh. Ridiculous post. Absolutely ridiculous. Have you got too much free time on your hands?



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by routerboy
 


Did you read everything or just the parts that make it easy for you to discredit what I am trying to accomplish here?

*I am not attacking, condemning, or trying to make you look like the bad guy
*I am trying to prove the value of credibility as to not just argue infinitely about topics that DO matter
*I am trying to eliminate posters that do not contribute to the subject and attack the OP without facts and sources
*Ignoring chemtrails, HAARP, and geo-engineering is not going to happen
*If I had too much free time I wouldn't leave 24+ hour gaps in between my posts
*Most vegetarians are too weak and malnourished to poison anything (joke)

chemtrail debunkers credibility -2



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 


You *are* attacking those groups by insinuation. With no credible explanation or sources. They are damned because of their beliefs. Pretty closed minded if you ask me. I thought people on ATS were supposed to be open minded??



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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This thread is for HAARP cloud formations, I did not start it but I will be contributing my own photos as I take them, when I take them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Feel free to post your own photos!



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by routerboy
 


I don't need to attack people, they attack themselves with their own posts, like you are doing to yourself. You can believe whatever you want, I could care less if you believe in chemtrails, HAARP, or geo-engineering, that's your choice. But there are a lot of informed people trying to inform the public and that is what we must encourage, regardless of if you believe it or not.
edit on 20-3-2011 by ImmortalIntegrity because: let me clarify



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 


Yes, please stop spreading misinformation, like this thread is doing.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by routerboy
 


Did you read the bill?
edit on 20-3-2011 by ImmortalIntegrity because: chemtrail debunkers crediblity -3



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by ImmortalIntegrity
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Let's be clear, I am NOT attacking anybody here. What I would like to find out is why there seems to be so many that are passionate about defending contrails, where do these people come from, and how much do they know.


I have posted my reasons for being a debunker on may threads, and FYI I am happy to do so here.

I am an "aviation professional" - an aircraft mechanic. I hold an ICAO Type II maintenance engineers licence which allows me to sign off aircraft as serviceable after various levels of maintenance.

I have worked for a couple of airlines, a 3rd party maintenance organisatino (for the non-aviation ppl out ther that means a company that only does maintenance for other people - it does not operate any a/c of its own), and a natinoal regulator (yes - I'm admitting to having worked for the Govt!!) - I do not reside in a NATO country, nor have I ever worked for any organisation in/from/based in a NATO contry - ie I've never worked for the FAA, JAA/EADAS or any of those Govt.

Jobs I have held include 5 years as an apprentice, several years as a mechanic, a couple of years planning maintenance, several more years as a quality assurance auditor looking into evey aspect of airline and maintenance organisation activity, and analysis of reported safety failures (but not actually accident/incident investigation)

I object to the chemtrail conspiracy because it insults me.

For it to be true I would have to be part of it - there is no way it could be happening here without me knowing about it and aquiescing to it. and people who continue to spropose/support it are accusing me of being part of of a worldwide conspiracy to do (pick whichever of the reasons for it you personally think apply).

And since _I_ know that hasn't happened _I_ also know that the conspiracy is BS.

Now I appreciate that you don't know me from Adam, and my claims ar essentially just some unknown person making statements.

But why then would you place any more credence on, say, Carnicom, Rense, or any of the various vociferous chemtrail proponents, and leap to the conclusion that chemtrails DO exist?? Because they publish videos? Because they have their own websites?

there are plenty of "debunking" sites too - usually much better organsied and presenting much more and better supported evidence.

There is heaps of science explaining everythign that contrails do.

There is NO verifiable evidence saying that chemtrails actually exist.

Because of natural suspicion of the Govt? Well I'm not going ot argue that you shouldn't be suspicious of the Govt - I certainly am despite my employment record with them....and that's not even the US Govt which appears to me so complicated and huge that it is inconceivble to me that there would NOT be something going wrong within it!!

But suspicion should not become "fact" without evidence.

and there just ain't none (sic), as the local saying goes (and if anyone points out the double negative they get 10/10 for missing the point!
).

Hope that helps.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by ImmortalIntegrity
reply to post by exroyalnavy
 


With that being said, Is there any chemtrail debunkers out there that think HAARP should be debunked also?

I've learned that most who like cheerios like milk too.


So, anybody? We must start from the ground and build up ladies and gentlemen.


HAARP debunked, as in it causes earthquakes, accomplishes mind control, controls the weather, etc, rather than "just" being a research facility that is completely open to the public at least once a year?

Sure - but you should really start another thread, and it has been pretty much done to death as well......



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by ImmortalIntegrity
OK folks, lets stay on topic please. We are discussing chemtrail debunkers here, not the chemtrails. If you are a chemtrail debunker we are questioning your credibility, not the chemtrail's credibility. Again stick to the subject please and thanks again. If you would like to discuss chemtrails, choose your thread accordingly.
edit on 18-3-2011 by ImmortalIntegrity because: corrections


As a sceptic your questioning my credibility!!!......really?

I think you would do better to put the "chemtrailers " house in order first my friend.

Have a read through the recent chemtrail thread, we have everything form wrongly identified aircraft, hoax youtune videos, right through the spectrum to "the ptb are spraying the moon/sun to hide nibiru"

And your questioning the credibility of the sceptics!

ycnmiu



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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Sorry I wasn't able to comment here again sooner but I was temporarily banned from posting on ATS. Just in case any of you missed it on Sat. March 12, 2011 ATS Live had a radio podcast on chemtrails. Featuring the chemist Dr Lenny Thyme and the producer Mr Michael J Murphy of the documentary "What in the World are they spraying" www.youtube.com...


Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
 

I wanted to share these two links with everyone. The first one is to the ATS Live podcast on Sat. March 12, 2011 on chemtrails. The show featured Dr.Lenny Thyme and the producer of "What in the World are they spraying" Michael J Murphy. The chemtrail segment begins in the second hour of the show at approximately 1:01:00..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The second link is to a thread that was made with Dr Lenny Thyme before the show.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Both the podcast and the later thread have a slight bit of controversy surrounding their abrupt ending. During the podcast at about 1:38:00 Michael J Murphy gets intentionally disconnected from the show by it's host. The following thread with Dr.Thyme was closed to more comments for unknown reasons.
edit on 21-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Obviously you think all aviation professionals are involved with a chemtrail conspiracy. That is a bold claim.
edit on 21-3-2011 by ImmortalIntegrity because: -5



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by ImmortalIntegrity
reply to post by exroyalnavy
 


With that being said, Is there any chemtrail debunkers out there that think HAARP should be debunked also?

I've learned that most who like cheerios like milk too.


So, anybody? We must start from the ground and build up ladies and gentlemen.


HAARP debunked, as in it causes earthquakes, accomplishes mind control, controls the weather, etc, rather than "just" being a research facility that is completely open to the public at least once a year?

Sure - but you should really start another thread, and it has been pretty much done to death as well......


Well, yes actually. Im more interested in HAARP's geo-engineering capabilities, rather than mind control, but we can study how UHF waves effect the human body if you wish.

And I really don't see the need for another thread, this one is doing a good job of accomplishing what I intended it to.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 





I would like to propose that chemtrail debunkers are nothing more than government shills, shilling themselves to the point of ridicule.


The entire point of this thread is a cop out.


If the evidence is so irrefutable, there should be no reason whatsoever to attack ones character to make your point.

Do you have documented examples to prove that "debunkers" are posting misinformation?

What evidence have you collected that proves "debunkers" are paid government shills? Check stubs? W9's?

All in all, this is basically a giant ad hominem attack against anyone that has a differing viewpoint regarding "chemtrails".

Ad Hominem


Ad hominem abuse (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.


And you said:




I would like to propose that chemtrail debunkers are nothing more than government shills, shilling themselves to the point of ridicule.


That about fits the bill



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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The entire point of this thread is a cop out.


What exactly am I copping out of?



If the evidence is so irrefutable, there should be no reason whatsoever to attack ones character to make your point.

Correct!!


Do you have documented examples to prove that "debunkers" are posting misinformation?

Did you read the bill?


What evidence have you collected that proves "debunkers" are paid government shills? Check stubs? W9's?

This is a conspiracy theory. With check stubs and W9s this would be nothing more than obvious truth.



All in all, this is basically a giant ad hominem attack against anyone that has a differing viewpoint regarding "chemtrails".

I didn't insult anybody. I may have offended someone with the term "shill" but that is a matter of interpretation and misunderstanding. Since you would like to quote wikipedia, I took the liberty of doing the same:



From wikipedia
A shill or plant is a person who helps another person or organization to sell goods or services without disclosing that he or she has a close relationship with the seller. The shill pretends to have no association with the seller/group and gives onlookers the impression that he or she is an enthusiastic independent customer. The person or group that hires the shill is using crowd psychology, to encourage other onlookers or audience members (who are unaware of the set-up) to purchase the said goods or services. Shills are often employed by confidence artists. The term is also used to describe a person who is paid to help a political party or other advocacy organization to gain adherents; as with the situation of selling goods or services, the shill gives the impression of being unrelated to the group in question, and gives the impression that he or she finds merit in the ideological claims of the political party.


So as you can see, being a shill is nothing more than having a job, which is not insulting in any way shape or form.

And I said:


I would like to propose that chemtrail debunkers are nothing more than government shills, shilling themselves to the point of ridicule.


I didn't say that I was going to ridicule anyone, just that consistent attempts to debunk chemtrails may draw ridicule.

Ridicule as defined by Merriam-Webster:

the act of making fun of someone or something in a cruel or harsh way : harsh comments made by people who are laughing at someone or something


Well, the only person who was treated harsh or laughed at was me. Maybe your perception is off? as you can see, you are wrong my friend.


That about fits the bill
edit on 21-3-2011 by ImmortalIntegrity because: -6



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 




What exactly am I copping out of?


The actual debate and facts regarding the "chemtrail" conspiracy. When the facts and science don't corroborate the pro "chemtrail" side of the debate, the popular thing to do is attack the character of the opposing side of the debate. Since you are new here, and just signed up last week, you may be unaware that this debate has been going on for close to 10 years, and if you peruse the 1000's of threads regarding "chemtrails", you will see that the pro "chemtrail" side resorts to character attacks 99% of the time. Calling somebody that is knowledgable in the fields of meteorology and aviation a "disinformation agent" or "shill" has become quite the fad within the "chemtrail" community. This thread reinforces that notion.



Did you read the bill?


H.R. 2977? The bill that WAS NOT authored by Dennis Kucinich? Yeah, I've read it. It's was authored by conspiracy theory enthusiasts, and when reviewed by Mr. Kucinich, had the bill revised to not include "chemtrails.

Besides the facts surrounding the bill, how does that even remotely correlate with labeling people "disinfo agents" because they have a different view regarding "chemtrails" than your self?



I didn't insult anybody.


Sure ya did, you insulted me, and anybody with a knowledge in the fields of aviation and meteorology.



I didn't say that I was going to ridicule anyone, just that consistent attempts to debunk chemtrails may draw ridicule.


Yes, and most people resort to ridicule as a self coping mechanism when they are insecure with their own beliefs as a proverbial self pat on the back.



Maybe your perception is off? as you can see, you are wrong my friend.


Wrong about what?



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 


this is a silly idea. The debunkers don't go around telling the chemtrail believers that they are all paranoid do they? I am sure a lot of them are just misinformed. You sound like a blind believer. One who would not listen to any evidence or reason that might go against your theory, so no further discussion is needed. Unless this is just an attempt to troll for a scrap.





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