Chemtrail Debunkers Misinformation Conspiracy

Originally posted by subject x
reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity

 

Why do you keep bringing up HAARP in a chemtrail debunker thread?

There are plenty of HAARP threads around, why not add your opinion to some of them?
This one has heaps of good information in it.

Because I believe that HAARP is used for geo-engineering, and so are chemtrails. Even if one of them was and one of them wasn't, the organizations that put them in place would certainly have to study the effects one would have on the other, thus the two must be connected by somebody, somewhere. I only regret not using the term geo-engineering instead of chemtrail, although the word chemtrail is very controversial all by itself.

reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity

Ok, I was just wondering. I don't happen to agree, but that's all right.
I just thought it was drifting a bit off topic for this particular thread, but, as it's your thread, feel free to take it where you will.

Carry on...

Most of you probably have already seen this video, but if I must post one, I find it interesting....

CHEMBUTTON! haha

Originally posted by ImmortalIntegrity

I would like to propose that chemtrail debunkers are nothing more than government shills, shilling themselves to the point of ridicule.

Well I can debunk that idea straight away

I'm actually the owner of an Antique Centre in Evesham, Trustee of a Scottish based charity (the Mountain Bothies Association) and an amateur meteorologist and photographer. So that's that. And with that info it's easy to check my credentials

So why would I be so sure that what looks and acts like a contrail is just a contrail? Maybe because I read up on the facts

reply to post by Essan


Your right, I can't possibly think that EVERYONE who tries to debunk chemtrails are government shills, that is just not very likely at all. But the theory resides, you now have a place to state your claim. Im open to hear your facts.

reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity


Well, technically those debunking chemtrails are really just reiterating known meteorological facts that date to before most of us here were born. As an analogy, it's a bit like debunking the idea that rain comes from giant invisible spaceships that scoop up water from the Pacific, filter it, and then spray it back over land.

What should really happen is that chemtrail believers need to debunk the contrail explanation. Which is where there problems lies ......

But so far as other 'chemtrail debunkers' are concerned - they include every weather book in your local library. Are they also govt shills? And anyway, which govt?

reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity


most everybody is on this site to explore the stuff that they cannot talk to "normal" people about. They come here and other places and read, research, discuss, and eventually decide about the various subjects here. To say anyone who disagrees with you is a shill, or a government agent/paid disinformation agent is akin to scurrying away with your tail between your legs because you have run out of good arguments. This subject in particular had gotten the attention of a few members here on both sides. I have studied it and came to the personal conclusion that what we see in the sky is contrails. If you wish to disregard science and believe otherwise, that's great for you. But don't be surprised when others try to present the same science you refuse to look at in attempt to counter your "arguments". It's the way it works here.

Several of us have even tried to help you people in proving/disproving your theory. Sadly, none of you will ever accept the challenge since there is a better than average chance you will prove yourself wrong. If you or any others decide to step up to the plate, let me know.

reply to post by network dude


Batter up.....I will accept your challenge dude. I say that the science by which the "persistent contrailers" stand by is inaccurate, incomplete, inconsistent and under studied. Where would you like to begin?

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


I am currently searching for a company that would rent the airtime to take air samples at whichever altitude you would like. What I propose is that somehow, the chemtrailers get semi-organized and decide what constitutes a chemtrail, then fly into one, take samples and either prove or disprove that there is bad stuff in it.

It would need a bit of co-operation between the chemtrail believers, websites, and conspiracy believers. I have no need to prove this, so I won't be contributing monetarily, but I feel like if it's proven that there is something in the air, then your side will have all the proof it needs to further the investigation, find out answers and quiet the non-believers, on the other hand, if you did multiple tests and found nothing but aircraft exhaust, and enough publicity was involved, the chemtrail theory would fall apart in front of everyone.

you still in?

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

But why then would you place any more credence on, say, Carnicom, Rense, or any of the various vociferous chemtrail proponents, and leap to the conclusion that chemtrails DO exist?? Because they publish videos? Because they have their own websites?

there are plenty of "debunking" sites too - usually much better organsied and presenting much more and better supported evidence.

There is heaps of science explaining everythign that contrails do.

From what ive seen from this thread i think your looking for comments like the one above. As this person has said there is debunking website that as he has acknowledged are better organised and presenting much better with more evidence on debunking

Thats what the question is here u see and i hope this is what you were meaning for this thread to prove. Why?....... Why have they got better websites which are more organised and presented, why such the effort to debunk and border line ridicule the theory of "Chemtrails" and the people that believe. Interesting thread with interesting reactions to the OP.

I made a thread about chemtrails just today and about a "Black line" that the plane was following, here's the link for anyone thats interested www.abovetopsecret.com...

Seems this is possibly caused by shadows from some sort of clouds that on my day of viewing couldnt be seen, that to me sounds more of a conspiracy than spraying chemicals but hayhoo not hijacking this thread. Interesting stuff IMO.

reply to post by network dude


Sure i'm still in, I currently don't have the income to contribute monetarily myself either but I would gladly participate in any other way possible. I live in California, near San Francisco. I have been informed of suspected spray operations taking place in the central valley of California near the city of Visalia and the surrounding area on a weekly basis. If you find a company willing to take samples. I will try to raise funds for the costs involved. I know this will take quite a bit of cooperation from many different areas and resources. So I'm not so sure we can pull something like this off. But Im certainly willing to give it a shot. If any other people want to try this in their area that would be good as well.

you would need to get organized. Get as many believers onboard as you can. If you get sufficient numbers, we can contact some of the big names to get some publicity on this.

reply to post by network dude


I have already made a few contacts on face book and I created a new "chemtrail info sharing" community group there. I will get the word out to as many people as I can once we have a more solid plan in place.

Edit: I can contact about 5000 chemtrail people today to discuss this proposal.

Originally posted by Drustew

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

But why then would you place any more credence on, say, Carnicom, Rense, or any of the various vociferous chemtrail proponents, and leap to the conclusion that chemtrails DO exist?? Because they publish videos? Because they have their own websites?

there are plenty of "debunking" sites too - usually much better organsied and presenting much more and better supported evidence.

There is heaps of science explaining everythign that contrails do.

From what ive seen from this thread i think your looking for comments like the one above. As this person has said there is debunking website that as he has acknowledged are better organised and presenting much better with more evidence on debunking

Thats what the question is here u see and i hope this is what you were meaning for this thread to prove. Why?....... Why have they got better websites which are more organised and presented, why such the effort to debunk and border line ridicule the theory of "Chemtrails" and the people that believe. Interesting thread with interesting reactions to the OP.

I made a thread about chemtrails just today and about a "Black line" that the plane was following, here's the link for anyone thats interested www.abovetopsecret.com...

Seems this is possibly caused by shadows from some sort of clouds that on my day of viewing couldnt be seen, that to me sounds more of a conspiracy than spraying chemicals but hayhoo not hijacking this thread. Interesting stuff IMO.

Good observation. This whole thing reminds me of how ET believers got treated in the 50's. Now who's debunking extra-terrestrial life? Find me someone. Unfortunately we can't prove aliens exist unless we find aliens. If you want to count fossils of alien bacteria than it is already proven. Fortunately, chemtrails can be proven and nobody has dis-proven it. If circumstantial evidence (if that's what you want to call it) can be used in court to validate a man's freedom, than it is enough to validate a chemtrail into further research. Where will this subject be in 60 years? Will you still be debunking chemtrails? You can think chemtrails don't exist but to deny the evidence that it does is something different all together.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by network dude

 

I have already made a few contacts on face book and I created a new "chemtrail info sharing" community group there. I will get the word out to as many people as I can once we have a more solid plan in place.

Edit: I can contact about 5000 chemtrail people today to discuss this proposal.

edit on 22-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text

I see chemtrail operations in my area frequently, the great lakes have a LOT of air traffic, that fact alone makes it easier to spot the operations in progress. I live close to a small airport also. It probably would be no problem to rent a plane and a pilot if one would so choose to do so.

Sorry double post

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


And again, you didn't answer my question about the information you provided.
Please, if I missed a question from you directed at me, let me know. I'll get right back to you.
As for my videos, please debunk the science I present. They have been posted for 2 years or so and no one has yet. I'm very careful with my research before I post a video. And I don't want just a different interpretation, unless you have proof your's is correct.
Did you know how much material is in a cloud? About the abundance of barium in the environment? The number and direction of flight paths over the US? Did you even see the errors in the fabled "there's barium in 'chemtrails'" news story, and if you did, did you research further? Probably not. If you did, you wouldn't be able to believe "chemtrails" hold any chance of working.
I rely on others who have the real world experience I lack. But when answering questions about "chemtrails" I rely on the science that is published. Because they are able to provide facts from reseach involving good method, exacting standards, repeatability, and peer review. They are written by experts in their fields. They come from many entities, nations and disciplines. And they consistently back each other up, over the decades of studies that are available.
That doesn't make me stupid, nor any less credible than you. It means I expect answers, not supposition and facts, not beliefs. It's called learning and knowledge. You really should try it yourself. Then you would not keep posting the same argument, over and over again. Yes, geo-engineering is discussed. There are probably tests done small scale, or by governments who don't care about the world view is. Can you prove it happens? Probably not. Does that make it related to "chemtrails"? Not without proof. Have you been told this before? Yes, by several people. Have you provided something new? No.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


I would suggest getting in touch with some high profile people. Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, even Gov. Ventura. These people make money from conspiracies. Unless they are posers in it strictly for the benjamins, then I would think they would help. See if Ventura would do a show on it, then you could get him to fund it 100%. Just make sure you are looking for real answers and not just the ones you hope to find. I will post any info I find on testing companies.


edit to add; I would suggest a thread discussing the pros and cons of this type of testing to hash out any problems before hand.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by network dude

 

Batter up.....I will accept your challenge dude. I say that the science by which the "persistent contrailers" stand by is inaccurate, incomplete, inconsistent and under studied. Where would you like to begin?

I've started a new thread just for this purpose - to show that the persistent contrail theory is wrong

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by network dude

 

Batter up.....I will accept your challenge dude. I say that the science by which the "persistent contrailers" stand by is inaccurate, incomplete, inconsistent and under studied. Where would you like to begin?

I've started a new thread just for this purpose - to show that the persistent contrail theory is wrong

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry to disappoint you Essan, I know you worked hard putting together that OP together. I know quoted me and are calling me out. But your thread will have to wait. I have too many threads that I am already involved with to get side tracked on yet another argument about trying to prove something. I will monitor your thread and maybe post occasionally. But I don't feel it necessary for me to join that conversation yet. I'd prefer to continue talking here about the possible acquisition of an air sample and test from a suspected chemtrail. And I also just began a conversation about debunking the story by contrailscience.com about the LA Missile contrail.