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Chemtrail Debunkers Misinformation Conspiracy

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posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


which is a whole new cop-out for Matty - usually he just ignores awkward questions that he can't answer without making further comment.


I think you might have made him think a little...not so much "Oh I might be wrong" tho - more - "I can't win this"......




posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


which is a whole new cop-out for Matty - usually he just ignores awkward questions that he can't answer without making further comment.


I think you might have made him think a little...not so much "Oh I might be wrong" tho - more - "I can't win this"......


Blah blah,...... blah blah blah.......blah blah blah blah blah,......blah blah ......blah blah blah blah blah...blah blah

I seem to have already won it. You're resorting to the old ad hominem again

en.wikipedia.org...

Abuse Ad hominem abuse (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


lol - if ad hominem was an indication of who had "won" you lost a long time ago


But yes you are right - I did descend to your level.

Not going to apologise for it tho - it felt good



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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I found this post by octobercat on prisonplanet forums to contain some useful tools in our studies.



For contrails to form, a certain number of weather criterion must exist. Factors such as Atmospheric pressure, relative humidity, and temperature at flight level.

For years military planners have known the dangers of contrails in the fact that they can expose aircraft flight to the enemy. NASA has long since used what is called the Appleman chart to make educated assessments as to whether a contrail will form or won't. For instance, we know according to the chart that regardless of the atmospheric pressure and relative humidity contrails will not form if the air temperature at flight level is warmer than approx. -35 Celsius.

"Temperature and humidity information can be obtained from weather balloon soundings launched twice a day from several locations around the country. Several locations on the Internet including weather.uwyo.edu... provide detailed sounding information. "

Using the chart, the weather balloon sounding data, and a web service called "Flight Aware", with a little effort (ok a lot of effort) you can begin to document the chemtrailing with factual data.

Flight Aware allows real-time tracking of commercial and private aircraft. It provides details such as flight plan, current location, scheduled and actual flight data such as altitude and speed. Military flights (referred to as command airspace) are not reported, however, you will find that it becomes quite easy to establish a protocol which will allow you to:

1. Witness the alleged chemtrail
2. Use Flight Aware to identify the aircraft leaving the trail, including the registration number and the aircraft history.
3. Determine actual flight level (altitude)
4. Use upper air sounding data to plot the probability of the trail either being a contrail, or not.

I've invested a few months now of this and have found that most of the real chemtrails (for lack of better terminology) are coming from commercial aircraft. I've kept a log of aircraft registration numbers and flight plans. The main players in this so far appear to be UAL (United) SKW (Sky West) and (AAL)American Airlines. This includes many smaller regional jets such as the regional canadair / bombadier series of twin jet such as the CRJ2. On occasion I am also seeing a privately owned fleet of Raytheon Hawker 800's flying in and out of Canada and the US leaving chemtrails, not contrails.

So the impetus of this post is that if you're really interested in proving that this is going on, and that it involves vast numbers of commercial aircraft, use your eyes and the data sources cited in this post.

Begin keeping records and amass the evidence for the day when we must put science on the witness stand and fight these bastards.

In closing I'll also state that there are many other compartmentalized private and military programmes being conducted as well, so please don't assume I am denying the military / pentagon / darpa involvement. From my research however the majority of these polluters are indeed commercial aircraft. The logistics and implementation methods are another huge topic which goes beyond the scope of this post.

Thanks for reading, and for watching the skies.


Not my words, just using what someone else has already put together.

This next excerpt is from petersantill i.com


Although I’m no physicist, my credentials as a specialist in aviation deployed nuke, bio, chemical and conventional weaponry for the United States Marine Corp qualifies me as an expert in missile technology. When I heard renowned physicist & theoretical physics professor Michio Kaku give his definitive “frame-by-frame” analysis of the mysterious contrail I was; quite frankly; appalled.

Prior to this presentation I’ve always had tremendous respect for Mr. Kaku, but after seeing this video I realized he’s nothing more than a book peddler & possibly a paid government misinformation specialist.

Pay close attention to the video below. He says a couple of very interesting things:


(1) “The object is not accelerating…” (What?! How does he know that; based on a one dimensional video image, and how can a rocket accelerate for its entire flight path. Yes, rocket’s accelerate, but they peak, plateau & sometimes peter out at the end of their glide path once the propulsion system expires)
(2) “It changes direction slightly….Ballistic missiles NEVER change direction….” (…but they spin in flight)
(3) “Its going in the wrong direction….We fire from Los Angeles/Vandenburg east to west…this thing was going north east….IN THE WRONG DIRECTION!” (Sir, with all due respect, that would assume it was launched from Los Angeles…who says we fired the object from Los Angeles or Vandenburg?)

Here’s Peter Santilli’s indisputable analysis of one frame of the mysterious object:


1) The contrail was led by a bright red “flame”. Its highly unlikely that any airplane in U.S. airspace; on FAA radar; produces a flame in flight.

2) The corkscrew contrail is solely caused by “spinning” of the object in flight. Could it have been an airplane? Certainly possible, especially considering the leading bright red flame, but virtually impossible for an object in upward flight to be spinning and flaming.

Hopefully Professor Kaku sells a lot of books as a result of his appearance on FoxNews. More importantly, hopefully someone fact-checks the contents of his book, as it appears he’s quick on the trigger with his “scientific” analysis.

Airplanes don’t flame and spin.

Professor Kaku: Try again….we’re not buying your analysis…. or your book.

Pentagon: If you idiots don’t know what’s in our airspace at any given moment, then please return trillions we’ve given you to protect us. You’re fired.


As you can see, chemtrails are in no way shape or form an insult to military personnel or experts and professionals, in fact, some of them share my beliefs while performing their duties simultaneously. There is no reason to feel insulted and lose composure. We are all on the same team here, well, most of us.
edit on 22-3-2011 by ImmortalIntegrity because: more



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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Contrails "corkscrew" because of wake turbulence.

the "flame" is sunlight glinting off the a/c - if you look at the whole video it comes and goes. It is "red" because the a/c is in the sunset - and sunsets are often red due to Rayleigh scattering - "red skies at night" - same in the morning too of course, but this was in the evening.

The a/c was still illuminated by the sun because it was at high altitude and was coing from the West - relative to it the sun had not fully set yet.

There are a couple of pages on "rocket trails" on Contrail Science:

contrailscience.com... - this is a general explaination and includes shots of a contrail on 31 December 2009, and was updated for the 8 Nov 2010 one because of the simlarity.

Note the photos from other angles where it looks exactly like any other contrail, albeit "golden".....whereas if it was a rocket launch you'd still expect it to look like a rocket launch.

it explains the aspects of perspective that make it look like it is "vertical", and shows that such mistaken impressions are not uncommon.

A 2nd page on contrail science - contrailscience.com... - explains how the 8 Nov 2010 flight is identified using a lot of pictures and geometrical tools.

There's a lot of information on both pages!!



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


lol - if ad hominem was an indication of who had "won" you lost a long time ago


But yes you are right - I did descend to your level.

Not going to apologise for it tho - it felt good


I gave you a star for your honesty.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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Sorry I been wrapped up with the other thread. Let me catch up and I will try to jump back on topic here again. I personally am not buying into the suggestion that this was a plane. There was eyewitness testimony (i will try to find quotes) that said the "thing" came from off shore. That it came from below the oceans surface as if a submarine had fired a missile. The altitude that the "contrail" begins appears to be much low for a persistent contrail.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 


Excellent find, thanks for posting it. I especially got a kick out of the closing remarks made by the second post.



Professor Kaku: Try again….we’re not buying your analysis…. or your book. Pentagon: If you idiots don’t know what’s in our airspace at any given moment, then please return trillions we’ve given you to protect us. You’re fired.




posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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These excerpts are from a letter by Julian Penrod, the whole letter can be found here HERE



Attempts at analysis have been attempted by numerous individuals determined to find out what is being done to the people, and frequently opposed by evident betrayers of the public mandate! The analyses that have been attempted have yielded constituents of the chemtrails ranging from ethylene dibromide to aluminum chaff to barium oxide to pseudonomas fluoroscens and pseudonomas aeruginosa.



In fact, though, it is often possible to raise objections to each theory, and that fact is frequently employed by those who call themselves "debunkers" to criticize, demean and even baldly ridicule those who want an answer to the issue of chemtrails! It is possible to counter each theory, it appears, because, in fact, no one is universally correct! It appears that many different purposes are being served by chemtrails, and, for each, different substances are being sprayed into the air. To claim one unique purpose for every case of aerial spraying is to run the risk of not identifying correctly what is being done in each particular area.



Among other things countering the "arguments" of debunkers that chemtrails are only normal contrails, and not some kind of controlled program on the part of government, is that, when chemtrails formed in the Northeast, for at least the past year, cumulous clouds never formed! If chemtrails were harmless and innocuous paths of water vapor from random jets, there would have to have been at least one case when cumulous clouds formed, following such an onslaught!

But they never did!



In the last of the letters we sent, we outlined the means whereby chemtrails could be used to prevent rain and promote drought.

Immediately following them, the chemtrails slacked off in the Northeast, rains picked up and the drought lessened significantly!

The connection is not easily deniable, if at all!

But a deliberate, planned nature of the phenomena is eminently apparent.



There seems little plausible reason - if any! - to doubt that chemtrails are deliberately produced, and not normal contrails!

Unsurprisingly, however, though, there are those who seek to oppose the assertions of those who contend that chemtrails are abnormal, and should be stopped. Apparently calculatedly, they term themselves "debunkers", to inculcate the perception that concern over chemtrails is, more than "misguided", an out-and-out hoax or fraud! Indeed, a number of them have used the term "hoax" in describing the concern over chemtrails - evidently suggesting that those who address the issue are actually pulling a prank on themselves! - and even accused some who pursue the issue of doing it purely for personal profit!

As if someone choosing to try to make a profit off a situation suddenly makes that situation not exist! Many have tried to hawk fake nostrums to eliminate the symptoms of the common cold, but that doesn’t make the common cold nonexistent! Moreover, the "debunkers" regularly tout the software, Flight Explorer, to "identify" aircraft using routes where chemtrails form. Not only do they, apparently, wish to negate the existence of chemtrails by simply calling them contrails, they seem to want to convince the public that they arise from innocuous, harmless aircraft simply because unidentified, unverified information a piece of software displays on a screen says it does!

They try to "counsel" people against using the guidance of their eyes and their common sense in chemtrails; they, instead, apparently, want them to blindly obey "the official story"!

Indeed, such faulty "reasoning", coupled with an attitude of guile and contempt, seems universally to characterize the chemtrail debunkers!

As their own "explanation" of the phenomenon, they carp the common line that "under certain precise conditions of temperature, pressure and humidity, water vapor from jet exhaust will act as the nuclei for condensation of water in the air around the jet" The preciseness of the conditions, evidently, is intended to "explain" why all jet trails are not the elongated, long lasting sight that chemtrails are. But, within at least the last year, days with chemtrails constitute no less than about a third of the entire year! In many cases, we woke up to already hazed over skies, indicating that chemtrailing had been done before dawn, or deformed, but elongated, wispy clouds would be present in the sky, indicating that chemtrails had been laid elsewhere, and drifted to where we were. As a result, chemtrail days constitute no less than one third, and, sometimes, no less than 40%, of the days! Far from a "precise" set of circumstances! If you add in the fact that, even after chemtrails may have passed, persistent haze can remain in the upper atmosphere, turning the sky a sickish white, or limiting the blueness of the natural sky that is permitted to show through, you have that no more than two or three genuinely blue sky days are permitted per month, anymore! Chemtrail opponents list this as one of their primary complaints with chemtrails, as well, the simple fact that they are being systematically robbed of their blue sky! Only a few decades ago, summer could guarantee weeks worth of clear, blue days! Now, to have just one is an event, at least in the Northeast! During the past summer, in Northern new Jersey, there haven’t been more than five or six days, all told, that were bright blue!



Someone in government, it appears, doesn’t want the people to think for themselves about what they see going on around them!

As reliable as the provability of tenuousness in the debunkers’ "arguments" - and the eminent apparent danger in chemtrailing! - is the debunkers’ coming up with yet other attempts, at discrediting those who oppose chemtrails.

They couldn’t deny the existence of days when huge numbers of chemtrails clutter the skies, because innumerable photographs to the contrary exist. If that wasn’t the case, there is little doubt they would try to utterly and baldly deny their existence, altogether! Initially, though, they did, apparently, try the wheeze that "aircraft exhaust can’t alter the environment"! That has since been overturned by a number of studies indicating that, at the very least, the obscuring effect of normal contrails was enough to lower the earth’s temperature by at least 1º Fahrenheit. Equally as determinedly posited was the assertion that, even if long, environmentally-altering trails were being laid, it wasn’t deliberate. Countering that is the revelation that numerous patents and proposals for using aircraft to affect weather have been filed, in the past few years alone! "Cloud seeding" is the least of the methods; preventing global warming was a major goal of many. Recently, too, even the military published a proposal to the effect of using weather control in wartime as a "force multiplier" against enemy troops. They termed their proposal "Owning the Weather by 2025"! In the face of these demonstrations of their evidently patent falsehood in opposing chemtrail followers, debunkers have taken up the line that, even though jet exhaust can affect the environment, and even though there are plans to utilize that to control the weather, jets never release anything other than normal exhaust into the air. In the recent past, however, CNN aired a report of military planes, among other things, releasing egg whites into the air to test radar methods for, putatively, tracking drug planes! It is questionable what aspect of the situation the debunkers will attempt to attack next!

And the debunkers have shown every determination to oppose suspicion about and examination of chemtrails as much as would be necessary to end questioning about them! They have taken out whole websites devoted to opposing chemtrail suspicions; they have even launched mirror sites of websites, to provide as much a saturation of the internet with their evident propaganda as possible! They run the gamut from an individual that calls themself "ChickieDeb", and identifies themself as "a housewife from Indiana" - ChickieDeb being one of those who launched three websites devoted to debunking! - to an organization given the frankly questionable name "New Mexicans for Science and Reason - suggesting they see "science" and "reason" to be two totally separate and unrelated things! Jay Reynolds, who seems proud to oppose the assertion that chemtrails are not normal contrails, and who also sponsored three separate sites to mirror his assertions, likewise states, on his website: "the real state of things that agrees with facts and reality"! Meaning, presumably, that, for Mr. Reynolds, "facts" and "reality" are two totally separate and unrelated things! Before struggling to oppose investigation into chemtrails, the debunkers, it appears, should attempt developing a pose that doesn’t come across as that of an incompetent poseur!

The nature of the debunkers’ refutations, however, is consistent with the stock in trade of those without a leg to stand on. Pre-eminent among their "tools" is out-and-out derision. Jay Reynolds titles his mirror sites "Contrails or ‘Trails-CON?" One of the devotees of chemtrail examination, William Thomas, he terms a "snakeoil salesman". On ChickieDeb’s site, cdebsjournal.topcities.com/Rhaltitude.htm, she quotes Jay Reynolds as characterizing those who mobilize the movement to study chemtrails as "X-file wackos", and ChickieDeb openly agrees. Larry Lawson, whom ChickieDeb identifies as a "chemtrail perpetrator", is also referred to, by her, as a "pipsqueak"!



On the same page, incidentally, ChickieDeb condemns "religious fundamentalists", like she models Mr. Lawson to be, who "think that God is unable to take care of things by Himself". ChickieDeb seems of the opinion that people should just sit still and do nothing, leave it all to God - or whatever she tries to pass off as a deity - to do things in the world. She seems intent on coercing others into a willing complacence and disinterest in taking action in the world. The title of another of her websites devoted, apparently, to deceiving people about the reality of chemtrails is "DO YOU WANT TO STOP BEING AFRAID?" Apparently she couldn’t be happier if everyone agreed not to be concerned about what is being done to their environment, and just let their rights and interests be run roughshod over! Even an atheist would accept that God would not have created man just to sit and watch the world; a purpose for creating man was so that man could do things and not leave it to God to "take care of things by Himself"! Having people stand up for themselves, however, seems anathema to what ChickieDeb has in mind for them!

The debunkers seem never at a loss for disparaging names to call those who seem to threaten the government secret they work so hard to hide, or a boundless store of contempt for others!

The evident attempt to vilify suspicion of chemtrails is also a commonplace on debunkers’ websites. ChickieDeb titles at least one of her mirror sites, worldzone.net/international.checkiedeb, "CHEMTRAIL HOAX - The Best Kept Secret In the World". On that site, ChickieDeb gives space to an article by Jay Reynolds, entitled "HOW TO RUN A CHEMTRAIL SCARE FOR FUN AND PROFIT". On one of the pages on one of ChickieDeb’s mirror sites, www.worldzone.net/international/chickiedeb/cgi/col2.shtml, chemtrail opponents are belittled for accusing debunkers of not using logic, yet it is said, of them, that "they refuse to recognize logic and rationale".

"Rationale", it could be mentioned, for ChickieDeb’s information, means the "excuse" or "justification" one uses to "explain" their actions. It is not an accompanying quality with logic. What ChickieDeb seems to have wanted to mention - yet apparently did not have the depth of education to supply! - was "rationality"!

On the page, worldzone.net/international/chickiedeb//cgi/eyeswideshut.shtml, ChickieDeb acknowledges that a term the debunkers use for chemtrail opponents is "Insane Cloud Posse".

Contempt is a large part of the debunkers’ stock in trade.

When not engaging in determined vituperation of chemtrail opponents, the debunkers attempt a "validation" of their condemnation of chemtrail concerns, usually through patently indulgence in fraudulent double-talk and specious "demonstrations".



And where displays of contempt and presumed exercises in sophistry do not succeed, the debunkers appear to rely on out and out fraud! A favored technique, for example, is saying that chemtrails are nothing more than normal contrails, then going through elaborate proofs that contrails are not unusual or dangerous and, because contrails are not unusual or dangerous - which, in truth, has not been proved! - then, what chemtrail observers complain about can’t be unusual or dangerous! Just about every chemtrail debunker site has at least one page devoted to "examining" and "explaining" contrails, then diffidently insisting that that’s all that chemtrails are - using even less proof than the chemtrail opposers use for their statements! - and "concluding" that, therefore, chemtrails do not exist, and chemtrail opposers are just chasing falsities!

The facts of chemtrails, however, do not bear out debunkers’ insistences.

Among other things, the references to chemtrails began only around 1997! There are no references to unusual, persistent cloud trails before that date! Contrails didn’t suddenly start to become long-lived under certain circumstances only after 1997! And it unlikely that people will have suddenly started to become aware of something as obvious, and apparently pernicious, as vapor trails that persist for hours, then spread and coalesce into sun blocking cloud decks only in 1997! The very fact that no complaints of long, spreading contrails before 1997 is sufficient to establish that chemtrails must be real, and not normal contrails!



Debunkers, for example, could try to "argue" that, on days when chemtrails don’t appear, it’s because the weather conditions at the planes’ height don’t permit them. The planes are there, they would demand, but the peculiar conditions that turned innocent contrails into extended lines in the sky simply weren’t present. But, even at the height at which chemtrails are apparently laid, planes can be seen and heard slightly. Because they take a long time passing through the sky, that high up, they form a low rumble that can persist for many minutes. On the days when chemtrails do not appear, neither the bright specks that the planes appear as, nor the low rumble are heard! More than that, not even normal contrails - which should form under just about any condition! - are not present! When chemtrails do not form high in the sky, it is because the planes that form them are not up there! The forming of chemtrails, then, is related more to the presence of special planes high up that particular day, and not, evidently, certain conditions affecting planes that are, putatively, present every day!

A phenomenon that chemtrail followers also point to to indicate the suspicious nature of the trails is what is termed the "on and off switch". Often, when chemtrails appear overhead, there will be a space in the trail, where what seems to be aerial spraying was turned off, for a time, then turned back on.

This does not happen ever for conventional contrails! Planes forming the short tails of fog behind them do not go through periods when the cloud will disappear; the clouds themselves, even though they last for a short time, do not show spaces in them. Debunkers, unsurprisingly, dismiss these claims, insisting that there is nothing in the breaks in chemtrails that indicate anything out of what they term the usual.

Tellingly, though, actual addresses of the issue of the "on off switch" are rare on debunker websites. In fact, only one site, www22.brinkster.com/Seawana/Conspiracies/Chemtrails.asp, which boasts the title, "The Way of the Dodo", actually devotes any real space to an attempted "explanation" of chemtrail breaks.




By titling their page that way, the Air Force, then, officially accuses all the honest, straightforward citizens genuinely concerned about at least the affront of their skies being clouded over, and sunlight all but banished from their lives, as malingerers and frauds!

A common tactic of the guilty is to cast the first stone and blame the innocent, at least to try to buy enough time to shore up their defenses against justice!

As with all other "debunkers", the Air Force proceeds to declare that contrails can be caused to remain for very long periods, based on temperature and humidity. Like the other debunkers, they never once assert that the conditions that would allow contrails to persist - if at all! - are conditions that are likely to, or even possibly can, occur on the earth, at the present! Unlike the other "debunkers", the Air Force, on their site, don’t include barometric pressure in the "explanation", an eminently glaring omission, utterly calling everything they say into question! Also unlike the other "debunkers", the Air Force does claim that "winds" can affect the persistence of contrails.

Too, and indicative of the fact that they may engage in the eminently questionable act of taking it on themselves to term suspicion of chemtrails a "hoax", but they are still bound by considerations of justice and fairness, the Air Force, on their site, declare that contrails can be caused to last long periods of time because of "aircraft exhaust characteristics"!

The nebulous reference is, apparently, meant to downplay the matter, but, technically, "aircraft exhaust characteristics" includes what is being pumped out!

In phraseology evidently intended to gull the unwitting into believing that normal characteristics of jet exhausts can, under the right circumstances, be made to last long periods of time, the Air Force, in actuality, seems to admit that unorthodox materials in their exhaust are what is forming chemtrails!



If conspiracy theories really were untrue, those who subscribed to them would be deluding themselves! They would be genuinely wasting their time. That is a tragedy, and would be approached as a tragedy, by those with genuine honor and the kind of concern and regard for others that would be consistent with telling them the truth! The arrogance and disregard to be seen among the conspiracy theory debunkers is that to be found in those incapable of the truth, or of any display of honor or decency! Their very malignance proclaims their assertions utterly untrustworthy and specious!

There is every reason to believe, indeed, that those who call themselves debunkers are, in fact, quisling shills for government, trying to keep the truth from the people. They willingly admit to being considered that by many conspiracy theory examiners, and just as quickly - and without proof - dismiss the accusation, but it seems very near the truth, if not the truth itself!


The letter is long, I urge you all to read the whole thing in its entirety if you haven't already.
edit on 22-3-2011 by ImmortalIntegrity because: fixed quote



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 


The letter is drivel.

It starts with 2 paragraphs of statements without substantiation, then it puts forth something along theline of a factual snippet - to wit:


Among other things countering the "arguments" of debunkers that chemtrails are only normal contrails, and not some kind of controlled program on the part of government, is that, when chemtrails formed in the Northeast, for at least the past year, cumulous clouds never formed! If chemtrails were harmless and innocuous paths of water vapor from random jets, there would have to have been at least one case when cumulous clouds formed, following such an onslaught!

But they never did!



Well that's jsut plain wrong.

Firstly contrails have no relevance to cumulus clouds.

Secondly there is no invariable cause and effect between contrails and CIRRUS cloud - as with contrails themselves whether they spread or not is determined by atmospheric conditions, and the required atmospheric conditions (supersaturation, wind sheer, etc) aer simply not always present even if the conditions for persistant contrails are.

Later on he says that you can ALWAYS see and hear a/c at cruising altitude - they always "glint" and cause a "low rumble".

That is also not simply true. Whether you can hear an a/c or not is also an "it depends" answer - on height, horizontal distance, flight phase, the aircraft itself, and, yes, those dreaded atmospheric conditions!! eg see www.airliners.net...

All in all his "letter" is jsut another bunch of unsupported assertions, appeals to moral authority, etc.

Like this bit:


If conspiracy theories really were untrue, those who subscribed to them would be deluding themselves! They would be genuinely wasting their time. That is a tragedy, and would be approached as a tragedy, by those with genuine honor and the kind of concern and regard for others that would be consistent with telling them the truth! The arrogance and disregard to be seen among the conspiracy theory debunkers is that to be found in those incapable of the truth, or of any display of honor or decency! Their very malignance proclaims their assertions utterly untrustworthy and specious!


Is that really evidence that conspiracy theories are right? Because people laugh at them??

IMO the reason ppl no longer have the sympathy and concern of which he speaks is that the "believers" persitently refused to accept science and verifiable evidence, and instead give "us" "evidence" such as this!!

edit on 22-3-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


That letter is not proof of anything, nor is it evidence of anything either. It is one person's opinion, one which I thought would fit in this thread. Glad you liked it.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


which is a whole new cop-out for Matty - usually he just ignores awkward questions that he can't answer without making further comment.


I think you might have made him think a little...not so much "Oh I might be wrong" tho - more - "I can't win this"......


Well he's already decided not to attempt to prove that what he and others think are chemtrails are not contrails


No one else seems to be interested either. Odd that.

edit on 23-3-2011 by Essan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Later on he says that you can ALWAYS see and hear a/c at cruising altitude - they always "glint" and cause a "low rumble".

That is also not simply true.


Indeed. It's quite strange when in the Scottish Highlands on a calm day I can hear aircraft flying overhead. Here in England, even when they are low enough to see their livery with the naked eye, I never hear them. Too much background noise for starters.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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aloysiusthegaul.newsvine.com...

Interested in food and weather?



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 



Sorry, what is the purpose of that?



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


To gain knowledge about someone by asking a question.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by ImmortalIntegrity
aloysiusthegaul.newsvine.com...

Interested in food and weather?


Edit again - I had another look & I do recall it - I was making a comment in response to an article somewhere about food prices going up, and noting that as the population increases food has to be grown in more and more places wher it might not have been, and so it is unsurprising that bad weather gets to affect the food supply more and drive prices up

edit on 23-3-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: I remember now.....



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by ImmortalIntegrity
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


That letter is not proof of anything, nor is it evidence of anything either. It is one person's opinion, one which I thought would fit in this thread.


oh it's proof and evidence of something all right!!



Glad you liked it.


you misunderstood my thoughts about it



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by ImmortalIntegrity
 


Oh, WOW!
This letter has so many errors that it rightly deserves it's own thread.

The most glaring one, or at least one of the most glaring, is that someone said it came out of the sea. Your horizon at sea level if you are six feet tall is only about 3 miles. Anything traveling farther away than that coming toward you will appear to come from out of the sea at some point. It's why mountains look small the farther away you are, and planes seem to fly "up" on one horizon and "down" on the other.
Using that as a point of contention alone makes the whole letter look really, really bad.



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



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