Apparently, the end of America begins in Michigan!

If you watch this - from the two minute mark the reason why there is an economic, budget problem in this town is very, very clearly iterated - and this is FROM A REPUBLICAN -


The whole thing is worth watching - incredible presentation.....blew me away.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Division in ideas and ideals is typically a good thing when all play by the rules. Its when one side (or both sides, whatever) start doing illegal and simply anti-american things is when things need to be resolved in a very different manner.

Agreed. People will always be divided, but should unite under a common cause. The common cause for uniting the people of the USA seems to have been brainwashed out of them.

Will America react...well, the issue is this. The right does horrible stuff...so they get voted out, the left comes in and rarely if ever repeals what they did (corrupted by the new sweet dictator type powers given by the previous administration).

We won't react. Sure, there will be protests and people yelling – but at the end of the day the same smiling face of the politician(s) we voted in will still be there. I think people need to step out of the political paradigm and look at the entire picture – look at both sides. It isn't pretty at all on either end.
Sure, Republicans are seemingly more evil then their Democrat counter parts – but yet, what ever changes under either party? The entire system is an illusion to keep people divided on issues.

We still have the bloody patriot act, we still have prisoners in gitmo, etc...the left may not have done it, but they certainly drag their feet in correcting it..this is not how it supposed to work.

Illusions are pretty neat once you figure out how they work
Seriously – I used to conform to the right, I woke up a bit, went to the left... now I want to go forward.
There is no left and right, there is only progress.
People don't believe in themselves anymore because they have been hammered down and drenched with drivel. 1020i HD TVs make the 'soma' go down easier.

I don't know the solution either...I don't know if there is a solution...perhaps the only thing we the people can do now is just record it. The fall of american civilization. The march towards totalitarianism on a micro scale.

A lot of people don't care – they only see this as a victory for their political party. It gives them goose bumps and makes them feel as if they are right or justified... they get weak in the knees because they believe they have initiated this 'change' – but once everything comes full circle, they will realize how betrayed they really are... but yet, many will still do nothing.

I have very little hope in the people of the country, or the politicians the people they elect. I enjoy parts of this country, but I have been around the world enough to know America is not some great shining example of anything whatsoever..be it freedom, opportunity, or even decent music...hell, its quickly becoming one of the worst straight across the board (except for quantity food shopping..we do make good fat arses). It won't change either, because should anyone suggest we try to improve anything, its met by a bunch of fat cheeseburger eating twits demanding the gub-ment not even suggest that we may need to improve.

grrr...ok, leaving for a bit...anger starting to boil...good luck try to deal with this.

HAHA! I know it is hard – I am fighting the anger raging inside me also. I don't know how to deal with this. I think people are just going to be people... If I have to move to another country hopefully I will have some money to do so... probably not though

Oh, and those fat cheeseburger eating twits... Ever hear of the horse and carrot? Entice them with a bigger cheeseburger damn it!

Just do as Mr. Carlin

reply to post by Aristophrenia


Great video - it is what I have been sayin from day one about these issues.

If people stand together they can not stop us - the banks have killed our country.

in these days i am glad not to be an american citizen but a european. i dont say, we do all right here in europe, but at least we dont press nonsense bills like that trough the legislation. poor USA

Originally posted by loam

I am no Rachel Maddow fan and often I find she distorts the truth beyond belief. But I ran across this today, and even if half of what she says is true, this country really is done.

What a PATHETIC political system.

Welcome to the New World Order

Hi, I live in Michigan and haven't heard one thing about this bill. This thing scares the bajezus out of me! Does this mean that the governor can just kick out my cities elected officials at will and put in who he feels like? Does this mean he can even "sell" the city to a corporation? I really don't know what this means but if it's as bad as it makes me feel what can I as an individual do about it? I voted for the other guy, I just have a lot of questions about what this means for me as a Michigander.

Originally posted by loam
even if half of what she says is true

the other half is still a lie. simple.
do ask her about 9/11. let's see if she tells half of or the whole truth.

oh, ask naomi aboot 9/11 too. now, that would be a fun debate to watch.

I live in Michigan and this is what happens when you vote republican,if you look at what the NAZI's did in Germany in the 1930s basicly this is the same senario except that was on a country wide arena that we are dealing with now here in Michigan and in other states..But still people are sitting on there couches as usual not caring one way or another what is going on..

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by loam

 

isn't it possible that this is just Republican bashing by the extreme left? This is portrayed as a proposed measure. Meaning it hasn't been voted on or enacted yet. I think a bit more verification is needed before panic should set in.

The way this Rachel woman describes it, it's a God awful bill .. but seeing as they were using this topic to try and back up Unions.. it sends off the BS alarms in my head. I'll have to actually read the bill it's self, because I simply don't trust the source. If it is anything like this woman says, it's a horrible, horrible idea.

Unions still suck though.

I don't understand why everybody fear about this bill?
I would say how it looks like from European perspective. In many countries in Europe it's quite normal and even often used that if some city have majors which increases local budget by taking extraordinary large debts the government have right to suspend such authorities and set own governor to stabilize the situation. Of course every time it happened we could hear voices that it is political tool and many other objections but in different way local authorities often have a trend to spend irrational much money because they are fighting for their local votes and don't care what would happened in future. Usually they are just counting on that if the situation would be relay bad the government just give them extra money and would not interfere to their affairs. Sometimes government have to show them that such way of thinking is wrong.

There will be many "creative" solutions to the bankruptcy of the states.

Bottom line though...

There is no money.

The states don't have fiat printing presses.

The game now just plays out.

Too funny, Mr Unon thug, Oh You might claim to have some 'right' to unionize but you dont have the right to limit the options of the taxpayer, to your offer or nothing but broken legs or sabotage. Sure unionize and make your best offer , and if it's rejected pack up and go HOME as a LOSER!. You DONT HAVE A RIGHT TO GET YOUR WAY! Union doesnt mean the other side doesnt have other option. Union as practiced as exclusive franchise where membership is a social malignancy
What part of FREE ASSOCIATION RIGHTS of the TAXPAYER/EMPLOYER dont you agree with?

reply to post by Mr Tranny


I am sort of on the same line of thought as you but only to a point.

Lets say you have a city thats doing at least "ok". Everyone is pretty much fine with the leadership.

There is a "noisy" element in this city that is making waves in washington, alot of state and local folks are taking notice and following suit. Schools have told the feds/stat to "screw off", many business owners are dealing trading in silver, local farmers supply the markets, this sort of thing. They are self sufficient and STRICTLY constitutional.

What would stop the State/Fed forces from taking out this local govt?

While we have some REEEEEAAALLY bad politiicians in Dallas that have been STUPID for the last 25 years or so (Dallas used to be a helluva place), and a lot of these idiots need to be tarred and feathered....
I'm not so sure I want to give that much power to the state and federal. dangerous waters there.

reply to post by loam


This most certainly circumvents the rights of the people, HOWEVER, I must add that the way local governments are running things is NOT much better, Financial waste, corruption, vindictive agendas - I've seen it all especially in small towns where you would think people would pull together. They don't. It's neighbor against neighbor and its sickening.

I got a lovely bunch of titanic deck chairs for youall to arrange as you want, doesnt matter Michigan is dead as a legal entity, all they have left is a need to steal money from anywhere they can, and you know who that is gonna be and you know there are gonna be some, with nothing left but their principles bad OR good, are gonna prosecute their opinions whatever way they have open to them. It will be bad, because of the predatory nature inculcated into the union oriented philosophys that hold sway in Michigan, and nothing spells trouble like clashes of entitlement, where half the population feels an entitlement to the property of others, and the other half feels an entitlement to their own property and labor. Unios pretend they are for the public, but they're only for their own segment of the public. One has to decide if they are for individual rights or group rights. In any event I will tell you blood will flow freely as long as big bad unions point to the public as evil and avoid looking ant the union-govt axis of corruption.
The reason big govt supports union mythology is that it;s by that mythology that the elites protect themselves while union thugs destroy public property to get back at their employers. Elites dont care, they are heavily insured and likey invested to short the countrys future, so agitate away my bulging veined union member, and pretend that it's not your neighbor you want to steal and seek revenge from, Follow your wealthy Pied piper leaders who, having spent your dues on themselves and their future, now tell your money is being held from you by the public and is yours for the taking, just step over this little cliff.
LET THE FESTIVITIES BEGIN!!!

As for circumventing your precious rights, you lost THOSE in 1913, and youre just noticing this NOW?

reply to post by loam



I agree, majority is Mob Rule.

Part 1 is here:

reply to post by MajorKarma


No economic system is self restraining any more than another, no political system is automatically more just than other. These are just tools to be wielded. Whether they are good or bad is simply by interpretation of those that are affected by them. One that operates these things needs to have a functioning moral code to keep the excesses from becoming destructive, and the same code needs to be appreciated by the public. You cant have competing or term limited moral operating systems or different expectations and have things work for long.
Americas/ Michigans problem is that there are competing moral codes in effect, not all of which have as a priority fairness to, or even the survival and equal consideration of infidels or non-tribe members. If you look around who is interpreting what used to be americas moral code you'll see that there are clear cut conflicts of interest, akin to your doctor, who gets nothing for treating you by govt mandate, also having the only funeral home in town where there are no such income restrictions.
What DO you expect will likely happen to your potential longevity in that case?

reply to post by FriedrichNeecher


My grandfather worked at the GM plants in Michigan for his entire working life. When he started there was next to no union representation, and next to no health and safety considerations at the plants. The unions forced GM to clean the working environment and put in health plans. That saved countless lives but anyone out there that had family members that worked in the 20s, 30s, and 40, know why they fought for it. My grandfather died of serious lung and blood issues that were directly attributed to the early conditions in the plants. Without unions forcing the issue the companies would have continued to run these businesses without concern for the health and safety of their workers. Killing unions is the same as killing employees.

Left or Right is not the issue. Its about human rights.

reply to post by Chindogu


Sorry no, the discussion is about public sector jobs, jobs that are offered for maintaining administrations goals as seen fit by the general public for its own needs in order to preserve stability.
There are no public sector asbestos benzene plants so there's not gonna be a discussion at least with me about that. Each sector of public sector involvement needs to be assessed individually and the public is entitled to pursue options with other entities as it sees fit. The ultimate perversity is the union attempt to control both supply and demand, and ultimately having discussions about public service obligations only with itself or its agents.
Nobody is doing anything about commercial unions which are, unless bammy gets involved with them, about contract law subject to real world effects and can go out of business as needs arise.
.