Oh Muslims, how much longer?

Originally posted by infiniteobserver
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

For the thousand time, it DOES NOT MATTER WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING. What I mean by that is, two wrongs don't make a right.

Just as you have just done, the problem isn't that it's a minority, it's that it's justified by the majority and they don't stand up and condemn the actions of that minority. It DOES NOT mean every Muslim beats his wife or blows himself up, that is just the way the apologist like to frame the argument to draw attention away from the real problem. They are blaming everyone else for a problem that is solely their own...

I'm not a Christian but I was originally raised as one. Watch this. The guy who shot the abortion doctor, nut job. The Westboro baptist group, attention seeking religious retards. None of these people represent what the Bible teaches. How hard was that?

edit on 16-3-2011 by infiniteobserver because: (no reason given)

When that abortion doctor was shot, did you denounce it publicly in a manner that allows others to look up your statement? I've been to Saudi Arabia (Jeddah) during Ramadan and met thousands of pilgrims. During dinner, every single one told me they hate the terrorists because they give them a bad rep and make travelling hell for them. So you claiming the majority condones terrorism just goes to show what a bigot you are

According to you, if a Christian does something bad, he's a nutjob. But if a Muslim does it, it's obviously condoned by the entire Muslim community. What a hypocrite you are!!

PS: I was the only white atheist dude in Jeddah as far as I could tell, and I openly admitted that to people...for some weird reason I'm still alive. Must be a miracle and I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that most muslims couldn't care less about what I believe

With all the turmoil going on in Libya we now just have to wait to happen it also in Ethiopia.
Here is an article wich explains it all.
I hope people can see what happened in Egypt and why it was so bad for the EU and the rest of the world.

And I don't think it will take long.
Hundreds of Opposition supporters arrested in Ethiopia

Why do some hate Islam so much? Islam is not what the Mass Media wants you to believe it is. Islam is not what some so called 'Muslims' want you to believe it is. Many call themselves "Muslims" when they're not even close. Many don't even practice it. Many do but not the right way. Many are hypocrites. It is the same with every religion. Many belong to a religion only by name.

Before criticizing another religion, ask yourself this, am I a good follower of my religion/belief? Am I really in a position to criticize? Who am I criticizing, the religion or the perpetrators?

For example, how can I call myself a good Christian/Jew when I don't fully practice it? How can I judge others when ain't exactly practicing enough myself? How can I criticize someone/something without knowing much about them/it?

I suggest people should read and learn about something first before criticizing it, else how can you criticize something you don't know?

If I call myself a Christian but do something that is against my teachings then I should be criticized for what I've done, not my religion.

reply to post by DutchBigBoy

I hope people can see what happened in Egypt and why it was so bad for the EU and the rest of the world.

What a dumb comment! They just had DEMOCRATIC and free elections that allow a new government to form...how on earth you can claim this is bad is beyond me. So those people aren't entitled to freedom and democracy? Wow, what a bigoted view of the world

reply to post by DutchBigBoy


I think you are right about Turkey's aim of a revival of the Ottoman Empire. Dominant western media have under reported the Islamification of Turkey. Turkey is no longer secular, helped in large by the Fetullah Gulen Movement.

This movement has "educational" operations around the world. They also operate over 120 Charter Schools in the United States. The movement has infiltrated Academia, Government and other institutions on the platform of Tolerance and Inter-faith dialogue.

More people need to be aware of the danger that Turkey poses. Ex-FBI translator turned whistleblower, Sibel Edmonds has documented much about the Gulen Movement and Turkey's role in Central Asia, in conjunction with the CIA.

I am not a religious person however, I am fully aware that certain groups have a vested interest in seeing that events from the Bible occur and this puts Turkey in the frame. Gulen, as the anti-christ!

reply to post by deessell

Gülen condemns any kind of terrorism, and supports interfaith dialogue among the people of the book, and has initiated such dialogue with the Vatican and some Jewish organizations.

As for those schools, some seem to be really good...and often place within the top 2.2% of schools in terms of science.

On February 5th, 2011, Harmony School of Excellence MATHCOUNTS Team participated in Greater Houston Chapter Competition. The team placed first in one of the most competitive chapters in the nation.

Doesn't look evil or bad: LINK

reply to post by MrXYZ


Whether the schools are good or not is not particularly important. What is important is that NO WHERE in any of the schools, mission statements does it mention that they are connected to a Turkish Islamic Cult [AKA The Gulen Movement]. To not disclose this information is deceptive and fuels the controversy. I'm sure you would agree. If we are to believe that they represent modern, moderate Islam, as they say, then they should proudly boast this in their communications. They certainly love publicity yet fail to publicize this crucial piece of information.

The Gulen movement are also working in collaboration with the creationists. One must ask if these are the right 'guys' to be in charge of our Youth? Children should not be involved in geo-politics. Research indicates they are highly controversial in their native land.

Maybe MrXYZ is the recipient of a Gulen Movement propaganda tour of Turkey?

reply to post by deessell


Where does it say religion plays a role at any of those schools? If they were centres for creationism, it would be kinda hard for them to win science contests

And if religion doesn't play a central role at those schools...why would they advertise it? All it takes is 1 Google search and you get the Wiki article that tells you who the founder is. Either way, I'm still waiting for proof that Gulen did anything bad.

Charter schools are nonsectarian, secular public schools of choice that operate with freedom from many of the regulations that apply to traditional public schools. Charter schools, like other public schools, do not teach religion.

LINK

Just because the founder is Muslim, doesn't mean their Muslim training camps

reply to post by TitaniumL


it is clear you didn't read all the posts. I don't hate the muslims or the islam

reply to post by MrXYZ


read the article in the post above about their "democratic view" of what they want.
It is not anything like the western way of democracy

Originally posted by deessell
reply to post by DutchBigBoy

 

I think you are right about Turkey's aim of a revival of the Ottoman Empire. Dominant western media have under reported the Islamification of Turkey. Turkey is no longer secular, helped in large by the Fetullah Gulen Movement.

This movement has "educational" operations around the world. They also operate over 120 Charter Schools in the United States. The movement has infiltrated Academia, Government and other institutions on the platform of Tolerance and Inter-faith dialogue.

More people need to be aware of the danger that Turkey poses. Ex-FBI translator turned whistleblower, Sibel Edmonds has documented much about the Gulen Movement and Turkey's role in Central Asia, in conjunction with the CIA.

I am not a religious person however, I am fully aware that certain groups have a vested interest in seeing that events from the Bible occur and this puts Turkey in the frame. Gulen, as the anti-christ!

Turkey is also an ally of Iran.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by deessell

 

Gülen condemns any kind of terrorism, and supports interfaith dialogue among the people of the book, and has initiated such dialogue with the Vatican and some Jewish organizations.

As for those schools, some seem to be really good...and often place within the top 2.2% of schools in terms of science.

On February 5th, 2011, Harmony School of Excellence MATHCOUNTS Team participated in Greater Houston Chapter Competition. The team placed first in one of the most competitive chapters in the nation.

Doesn't look evil or bad: LINK

It is not the common people where I am afraid off.
The new governments that are being chosen will be against the westerns nations. Turkey had a referendum last year which aloud the muslim party to have much more influence then they had ever before. That referendum was aproven and since then Turkey is an alley of Iran

meaning that the head of state (the Caliph) and other officials are dicate to the people according to Islamic law

these are the heads you were supposed to cut off... When they led you astray... You have perverted your own beliefs and place blame where it should not be. look back in time and be honest with yourself...

Originally posted by DutchBigBoy
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

read the article in the post above about their "democratic view" of what they want.
It is not anything like the western way of democracy

Well, they now get to vote their head of state and vice president...if they vote the "wrong" character, it's the people's will, aka democracy. You might not like it, but you have NO RIGHT to dictate to them what they should do in their country. At least now it's the people voting in presidents instead fo some dictator grabbing power by force.

It's pretty clear you're incredibly biased against all Muslims...which makes you a racist. You are condemning an entire people based on your bigotry.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by DutchBigBoy
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

read the article in the post above about their "democratic view" of what they want.
It is not anything like the western way of democracy

Well, they now get to vote their head of state and vice president...if they vote the "wrong" character, it's the people's will, aka democracy. You might not like it, but you have NO RIGHT to dictate to them what they should do in their country. At least now it's the people voting in presidents instead fo some dictator grabbing power by force.

It's pretty clear you're incredibly biased against all Muslims...which makes you a racist. You are condemning an entire people based on your bigotry.

I am certainly not a racist. I have many friends of different races and religions. I just want to make people aware of the coming dangers.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by deessell

 

Where does it say religion plays a role at any of those schools? If they were centres for creationism, it would be kinda hard for them to win science contests

And if religion doesn't play a central role at those schools...why would they advertise it? All it takes is 1 Google search and you get the Wiki article that tells you who the founder is. Either way, I'm still waiting for proof that Gulen did anything bad.

Charter schools are nonsectarian, secular public schools of choice that operate with freedom from many of the regulations that apply to traditional public schools. Charter schools, like other public schools, do not teach religion.

LINK

Just because the founder is Muslim, doesn't mean their Muslim training camps

edit on 21-3-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

What is your connection to the Gulen Movement? Maybe you should disclose this.

"Charter schools are public schools," he said. "We follow the state curriculum." But federal agencies - including the FBI and the Departments of Labor and Education - are investigating whether some charter school employees are kicking back part of their salaries to a Muslim movement founded by Gulen known as Hizmet, or Service, according to knowledgeable sources.

articles.philly.com...

The Controversial Muslim preacher has now extended his tentacles into schools in the United States, where he controls and operates more than 100 charter schools within a calculatively set up maze of dubious NGOs. Fethullah Gulen, whose organizations’ net worth is estimated to be somewhere between $22 billion and $50 billion, owns and operates over three hundred Madrasas around the world, including Pakistan, Central Asia, and the Caucasus. While Gulen’s suspicious and secretive Madrasas have been shut down and or restrained in countries such as Russia, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan, based on these governments’ justified suspicions that his schools had more than just education on their agendas, his rapidly and secretively expanding charter school empire here in the US has gone quite unnoticed and unacknowledged. In less than a decade Gulen’s Islamic network in the US has established over 100 publicly funded charter schools in 25 states. What makes this eyebrow raising phenomenon a very disturbing case is the fact that despite official documents and publicly available data Fethullah Gulen is going out of his way to deny his connections to these schools. The question is why?

www.boilingfrogspost.com...

1- In Central Asia, within Gulen’s Islamic schools, the CIA operatives worked under the guise of ‘American Teachers teaching English.’ Okay, the Washington Post article, going through the exact same publications/articles forgot to add these crucial details, which would have paved the way for journalistic investigation(s) leading to either confirmation or denial. The following is the only detail the article provided: In the 1990s, Gundes alleges, the movement “sheltered 130 CIA agents” at its schools in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan alone In this case, as others had done already, the existence of mysterious American teachers teaching English in Gulen’s schools in Central Asia has already been confirmed. 2- The American Teachers working at Gulen’s Islamic Schools in Central Asia possessed US Diplomatic Passports.

www.boilingfrogspost.com...

Though U.S. officials perceived the community as adhering to a “moderate Islam” model, they expressed concerns in the cables, the first documents released by WikiLeaks’ new Turkish partner, about its perceived infiltration into the Turkish police and accusations of “brainwashing of students” at the community’s schools around the world. The confidential cables released by daily Taraf focus on U.S. diplomats investigating and analyzing the religious community and its actions, Gülen’s meeting with the pope in 1998 and his stay in the United States, according to reports in the Turkish media Thursday.

www.charterschoolwatchdog.com...

The May meeting is part of a growing battle for the hearts and minds of Turkey's youth. In fact, conference organizer Mustafa Akyol told ISN Security Watch, in Turkey the creationism-evolution debate is more extensive than it is anywhere in the world. Akyol is also a member of the Journalists and Writers Foundation, established by Fethullah Gulen, leader of a wealthy Islamic sect that bears his name, the Gulen Movement. Gulen lives in self-imposed exile after fleeing charges of subverting the state, or more specifically, of attempting to "undermine secularism" in Turkey. After long trial, he was acquitted in 2006 but the case has since been reopened, despite the fact that he is said to actually be in the good graces of the current government. Gulen has an influential network of TV and newspaper interests in Turkey along with close ties to the government. It is rumored he even has the ear of Turkish President Abdullah Gul. The Gulen Movement, along with other creationist advocates, has been lobbying with increasing success for school textbooks to put creationism on equal footing with Darwinism. Their efforts are causing increasing concern among Turkey's academic community. Last year, 600 academics presented a petition to the Education Ministry citing alarm over the growing presence of creationist ideas in biology text books.

www.isn.ethz.ch...

Why is it wrong?

Teachers are often the next most influential adults in students’ lives after parents, and students naturally trust their Gulenist teachers and administrators. Some Gulen charter school students have posted favorable comments about their school online, or have praised their school when interviewed by journalists. These students may have no idea of the school’s connection with the Gulen Movement. What could be more natural and harmless than showing school spirit and pride in a public school? Yet these students are in fact advertising for the Gulen Movement. Students who participate in the Turkish Olympiads are told by their school that this is a way to enrich their lives by learning another language and culture, yet in fact they are involved in a nationalistic pageant that has political and religious significance. Some students have even recited poems by Fethullah Gulen himself. It is wrong for students to be placed in a position of supporting the Gulen Movement when they and their parents are not fully informed about it. Students’ statements in newspaper articles, their online comments, their photos posted on school websites, and the youtube videos of their Turkish Olympiad performances will live on forever in cyberspace and can never be erased from the public record. In the future, when public awareness of undesirable aspects of the Gulen Movement is greater, students may regret that they cannot free themselves from all these digital traces. Attendance at a public school should not come loaded with any hidden geopolitical baggage.

gulencharterschools.weebly.com...

People around the world are discovering the truth about the movement!

reply to post by DutchBigBoy


I don't make it long and hard to understand.

Iranian nation had a revolution about 32 years ago. they wanted to establish an Islamic republic dominion .

they did and then the war was imposed on Iran for 8 years.

may be this dominion is not doing as people predicted because may be every one is not acting according Islam's rules but it is better than a country ruled by conspiracy theories. who ever wants to expose these theories is killed simply. we do not pay our government to kill other people in other countries and then the multinational corporations get the beneficiaries.

The nation still wants the dominion . as Iranian people are looking at their gov they have not seen our government doing wrong foreign political issue. IRI G has not invaded any country and has not threaten any country.

The IRI G is protesting this unfair and non-humanistic way of governing the universe. so do we.

reply to post by MrXYZ

It's pretty clear you're incredibly biased against all Muslims...which makes you a racist.

How so? Religion is not a race. Bigot is probably the word you were looking for.

reply to post by deessell

What is your connection to the Gulen Movement? Maybe you should disclose this.

Take off your tinfoil hat

FBI and the Departments of Labor and Education - are investigating whether some charter school employees are kicking back part of their salaries to a Muslim movement founded by Gulen known as Hizmet, or Service, according to knowledgeable sources.

First of all, the FBI seems to investigate certain employees, not the schools as a whole...just like they investigate other teachers/professors at other schools too.

While Gulen’s suspicious and secretive Madrasas

You might wanna visit the websites of those schools again...they're anything but secretive. Furthermore, they're secular schools, so I'm not sure what your issue is. And lastly, no wonder you're so misinformed, getting your "information" from such ridiculous blog websites such as boilingfrog.

Look, when it comes to those charter schools in the US, you have to look at the facts:

1) He hasn't been convicted of any crimes relating to the schools. I hope you see the difference between investigation and conviction.

2) The schools in the US are secular.

3) The students won numerous science contests...something that's favorable for the schools.

I don't even care about those schools, but how about you post some hard objective evidence showing how they're evil. Because all you posted so far is nothing but "they've been investigated" or "potentially they could be evil" lacking any objective evidence to back up the "evilness" claims.

@Maslo, yeah, he's a bigot, not racist...doesn't make it any better though