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Boycott the UK census over links to Lockheed Martin, protesters say

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posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


QUOTE
"Saying that an act of parliament is not law is not an opinion it is a statement of fact, one which you cannot prove. Will you admit that? "

An ACT of parliament is not a LAW. it is a ACT of parliament.
That statement i do stand by, correct i will admit that.




posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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The thing is though, all the local authorities in the UK already know where everyone is living, and it is updated every year so they can collect their local taxes. Wouldn't this source of population information be sufficient? I would imagine it being more reliable because it is always up to date, whereas the census is every ten years.

And why do they NEED to know exactly where we all are on the 27th March, why do they need to know who is visiting on that day? Why can't it be after that day? Or before? Or thereabouts?
edit on 10-3-2011 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by johngtr
 



An ACT of parliament is not a LAW. it is a ACT of parliament.
That statement i do stand by, correct i will admit that.


And that’s what I want you to prove. I don’t think you can.

reply to post by doobydoll
 



The thing is though, all the local authorities in the UK already know where everyone is living, and it is updated every year so they can collect their local taxes. Wouldn't this source of population information be sufficient? I would imagine it being more reliable because it is always up to date, whereas the census is every ten years.


As has been said the census is there because the information you talk about above is spread over a huge number of departments and there is currently no system in place to bring it all together.

However, as has also been said, this may change and 2011 may be the last census because gathering data from local sources is being examined.

www.bbc.co.uk...

As for the visitors question I think it’s just to ensure everyone is counted.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by johngtr
 



And that’s what I want you to prove. I don’t think you can. .


Ok i will admit you are fundamentally correct and my statement was slightly wrong, although i will admit i am wrong as my wording was off - i did not come across as i meant too

A Act can be a law -

To make it simple and easier to understand, laws exist so that citizens of the public are protected whereas acts exist so that an idea of the government is made mandatory for the public. Before an act is a law, an act is technically called a bill. In order for an act to officially become law a legislature must vote on a bill. If the bill is voted in the bill then becomes an act, thus, becoming a law.

To get across how i meant to sound with the correct wording

A Act Is Not Common Law.

So therefore you need consent to be prosecuted under a act

The law is a very large " gray area " - That is why the best lawyers cost so much money, and i already stated i am by no means a expert of law.

I am not clogging the board up with pages and pages of law information.
more information can be found at www.cps.gov.uk...


If i am totally wrong then i will learn something new but like i said its a large area of knowledge to try to understand fully.

Hope this helps you to understand my point of view, If not that is fine but i still stand by what i say.

Either way im not filling in my census



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 07:02 AM
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To get across how i meant to sound with the correct wording

A Act Is Not Common Law.

So therefore you need consent to be prosecuted under a act


Not from the accused you don’t.

I’m not sure what you think that link shows as it only demonstrates the need, in a limited set of circumstances, to get permission to prosecute from the Attorney General or the Director of Public Prosecutions. This isn’t the same as the old freeman chestnut, “they need your consent to prosecute you.”



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


I am not talking about it any more on this thread if you would like to carry on discussing it please start a new thread.

As i have mentioned before we are straying off topic and i would not like to be banned or given any warning off the site management

Thank you



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by johngtr
 


That is exactly the question that got it ripped up and thrown in the bin !! What the heck has it got to do with them??
I think this country gets worse....

Someone said to me the other day
'oh, dont worry they only want to know who is living in the country that shouldn't be'
WELL DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT PERSON IS GOING TO PUT THERE NAME ON THE CENSUS??? DOH !!!




posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 





By the way, Lockheed Martin was also involved in the 2001 census, this whole issue was drawn out then and nothing came of it. No one does their research any more!


Umm, yeah right. When was the 2001 Uk census taken? Was that before or after the US government/I mean Saudi terrorists/I mean Muslim terrorists flew planes into the twin towers? Hmm...when did the Patriot Act come into effect (the one by which Lockheed Martin is required by law to disclose all info it has to various US government bodies)? Was it before or AFTER that 2001 census?

No one does their research anymore!



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Lucius Driftwood
 


Thank you for that, it seems you are doing the research for me : )



On topic i still have not received response from the Census people about the specific law that requires me to fill it in. SO its still going to sit here unfilled,



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Lucius Driftwood
 


Read the rest of the thread, the patriot act cannot compel LM UK to give the US any personal information from the UK census, partly due to legal assurances received by the UK government and partly because they won't actually hold any personal information.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by iWokeUp
 




Someone said to me the other day 'oh, dont worry they only want to know who is living in the country that shouldn't be' WELL DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT PERSON IS GOING TO PUT THERE NAME ON THE CENSUS??? DOH !!!


of course not, but when people do not include them on the list of persons who live at the address they claim to be living 'whilst' studying etc, well it could cause them some problems. or if they are staying in somebodies property as a lodger then the owner will put them on the form anyway, the illegal immigrant/benefit cheat/ wanted criminal may well of lied to the persons they are staying with about their FULL circumstances, therefore the owner/other persons filling out the form are unaware they are wanted or illegal or doing fraud, and include them on the list of persons.


edit on 17-3-2011 by lifeform11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher
 


Lockheed Martin has the processing contract for the UK Census to make money. They will not risk their reputation in this branch of the data processing industry by messing with the data security, or they would never get such juicy census contracts again in the developed world. The data issue is a red herring.

The real problem is that if you boycot the census, Lockheed Martin will make even more money, because they will have less work to do under the contract! The only solution I can think of is to make a return (NOT on-line) but to make it as time consuming, and thus as expensive as possible for them to process. The most obvious way to do this is to ensure that none of the BARCODES on the form can be read. This will prevent high-speed computer registering of forms and scanning of the answers. All the clerical work of registering the form and keying the data will then to be done by hand for such a form, which is vastly more expensive.

The form carries 3 types of bar codes; A) the big barcode on the front page. This is meant to be scanned by the Royal Mail, to register "form returned" and that is then passed to the census visitors organisation. The Royal Mail is not allowed to open the envelope. If, for whatever reason, the Royal Mail can't scan that bar code, the form will in any case be forwarded to Lockheed Martin's processing centre which will then have to sort that out.
Barcodes B): the little fat ones in the righ hand corner of each page. These are just the page numbers for the computer to read. All forms have idential page-numbering barcodes.
Barcodes C) These are the fainter "wavy" barcodes, on one side of each page only.These ate the same on each page, but unique for each form. They are the form's unique "Identity" barcode.
On arrival at the processing centre, the spines are cut off the form and the ensuing loose pages are , after a brief inspection, meant scanned. Through the combination of barcodes B and C, these pages can be scanned and the information rgistered even if the pages are all mixed up and fed in in complete random order. Without the bar codes, none of this will work.

If the printed numbers under the bar codes are still readable, form identification can be typed in manually. If those number cannot be reead either, the form can only be referenced from its postal address or its personal internet access code (on the front page). All rather time consuming stuff.

The Optical Mark Recognition and Optical Character Regognition (OMR & OCR) software to "read" the ticked boxes and the writing in boxes respectively, also easily defeated (corrections with arrows etc for boxes, upside down writing, joined up writing, writing outside the box, and so on) and woukd esults in manual keying in.

Both Lockheed Martin and the UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) have helpfully put al the info I used for this on line:

www.ons.gov.uk...

The downloadable newsletters "census talk" on this ONS site contain the technical info in plain laguage. See especially nos. 4, 5 and "special issue" (= no. 7)

These 2 describe the process as written by Lockheed Martin:

www.lockheedmartin.co.uk...

www.lockheedmartin.co.uk...

and if you are a really masochistic, try this one to get some insight in the economics and costs of computer-scanning paper questionnaires (it's a trade-off between speed and accuracy) :

www.documentimagingreport.com...



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