Boycott the UK census over links to Lockheed Martin, protesters say

reply to post by johngtr

I am not a expect of law ,nor do i claim to be. Are you a expert of law and if so can you prove it

No I’ve read a few books on the subject but my point is it’s odd that no one who has ever espoused this freeman stuff ever seems to have any relevant qualifications or, in my experience, read anything about law that does not push the freeman agenda.

I believe the person on 2 of those videos is a law student/has studied law thoroughly

I couldn’t find any evidence of that.

They videos show how some police and PCO can/do try to abuse their powers.

That’s irrelevant to whether an act of parliament constitutes law.

Also are you saying you have never used a video on youtube or a link to a forum/blog or a orginasations website to use as some sort of evidence?

I don’t think I have ever used youtube or a blog as evidence or a source of education, except maybe if someone has posted something from a third, more reliable source.

Don’t you think there is a massive reliability problem using sources that can be written by anybody?

Infanticide act as a ACT itself is not LAW but causing harm to some body breaks common LAW.

What do you think common law is?

So yes it is illegal but not by definition of the act, to be prosecuted by a act you have to consent to it.

Do you have any legal sources to back that up?

if you do not consent they cannot prosecute.

Try it.

Well I've just read through the census form and its very bland and boring.

You'll find out more about me off ATS!

reply to post by Mike_A



Ok well you will of most likely seen it on here , but research the man named -- Roger Hayes- he was the man who tried to arrest the judge but actually research him not just that incident. you will find information for him at

He has political knowledge, he also has legal knowledge.

Try www.tpuc.org...
& www.lawfulrebellion.org...

If you want a better understanding there are plenty of websites that describe common law, just type it into google.

There are lots of answers to that question and many others you are directing at me, : )

Peace

reply to post by Essan


it may be bland and boring but is there any NEED for 100 questions or more ?

e.g one question asks, "one year ago what was your usual address" what use is that to anyone seriously?

reply to post by johngtr

research the man named -- Roger Hayes

…

If you want a better understanding there are plenty of websites that describe common law, just type it into google.

Why can’t you tell me? Are you preaching a philosophy that you yourself can’t actually back up?

If you can’t tell me these things yourself then maybe you should question why you buy into them.

And for the record I’ve encountered Hayes before and he can’t answer my questions either.

reply to post by Mike_A


oh ok so if you have encountered Hayes and questioned him personally. do you have evidence of for this also ?
that he " couldnt " answer your questions.

I can explain what i like, to who i like, when i like that is my right. I just feel that you are trying to drag this on now and make it a attack on my opinions and beliefs. i gave you sources for evidence research it yourself. i do not have to tell you why i believe in something or why i have the opinions i do. I am not preaching i was expressing my opinions which once again i have every right to do. You disagree with what i say . I dis-agree with what you say. That is fine.
Our " discussion " has drifted way off topic and im surprised all our posts did not get removed.

Good day

Originally posted by johngtr
reply to post by Essan

 

it may be bland and boring but is there any NEED for 100 questions or more ?

e.g one question asks, "one year ago what was your usual address" what use is that to anyone seriously?

No use to Lookheed Martin, but maybe of interest to geneologists in 100 year time?

To be honest, we find past census return very interesting with regards past occupants of remote buildings now used as open bothies, and knowing how long people have lived there is part of that.

reply to post by johngtr

oh ok so if you have encountered Hayes and questioned him personally. do you have evidence of for this also ?

Of course not, I don’t keep a record of my every interaction with people.

Anyway I’m not asking Hayes, I’m asking you and you can’t answer me.

I can explain what i like, to who i like, when i like that is my right. I just feel that you are trying to drag this on now and make it a attack on my opinions and beliefs.

Excuses; this thread had nothing to do with the whole freemen thing until you made the claim that an act of parliament was not law (that’s a statement of fact not an opinion) and when called on to provide evidence of this you cry foul.

You know and I know that you can’t provide the evidence I asked for; we also both know you’re not going to admit it here so if this is to be the last on the subject then at least ask yourself why you’re buying into an argument that you can’t defend.

Originally posted by johngtr
reply to post by Essan

 

it may be bland and boring but is there any NEED for 100 questions or more ?

e.g one question asks, "one year ago what was your usual address" what use is that to anyone seriously?

it's questions like that, that make me think the main purpose of this form is to expose benefit fraud, illegal immigrants, people who are wanted but have been lost track of, debters, school catchment liars etc.

if you think about the census form along these lines alot of the questions make sense. especially why they want to know who will be staying over as 'visitors'.

think of people claiming benefits who claim they are living seperate but infact live with their partner, think of illegal immigrants claiming they are living with family or their false partners etc etc.

whilst i think it does help to give information that could improve services, i also think there is an other reason for the questions, which is along the lines i said above.

i may be wrong though.

Ha It came through my door yesterday.And my first feeling was to tear it up (Violently) After reading here that you could face 1.000 pound fine,I'll burn it!!!!!! I'm not filling it in!!!!! Burn baby burn!!! Our world is not a fair place right now

reply to post by Mike_A

It’s a census, we’ve had one every so often for quite a while now, they’re useful for doling out services,

Oh? I thought we were cutting back to the bone on services of late?

What's the logic of spending upwards of £250 Million for something that helps to 'dole out services', when there's no money for services?

This may or may not be something to worry about, but usually people do not give 'market research' to a private corporation to scrutinise and slither through, especially some of the very private information being demanded, and especially with all of the above, plus the added bonus, that it is all to be suffered under pain of loss of liberty or livelihood.

It's *not* on.
It's a gross invasion of privacy, it's unwarranted and unwelcome, not to mention the obvious marketing overtones and potential, to the questions being asked.

The vast amounts of information being demanded here, some of it benign, some personal, but some very intrusive and offensive information, which in it's entirety, would be worth more than £250 Million in terms of the goldmine of market research potential dropped into the laps of any multinational corporation on the planet...much more. Certain cola corporations spend more than that per annum, on advertising and marketing alone.

I'd expect most of our fellows would probably agree, British people tend not to like having the piss taken. And this is exactly what this is shaping up to look like.

reply to post by Mike_A

You never gave me my evidence either,



im sorry i wont post before you, with my opinion next time ,

Does anyone know why it is such a crime to not complete the census form?

I don't know what terrible harm it does, and why it should be punishable by a prison sentence.

Anybody know?

reply to post by doobydoll


you have a point, it does not matter what the form is for, i cannot get my head around why it would be a crime not to give the information if you are not on benefits or claiming assylum etc.

if you are working, not suspected of a crime pay your own way etc, i cannot understand why it would be a crime to not give this information, as it should have nothing to do them unless you want to take part.

reply to post by spikey

Oh? I thought we were cutting back to the bone on services of late?

What's the logic of spending upwards of £250 Million for something that helps to 'dole out services', when there's no money for services?

You’re just being ridiculous, public services are still being provided and will be in the future.

This may or may not be something to worry about, but usually people do not give 'market research' to a private corporation to scrutinise and slither through, especially some of the very private information being demanded, and especially with all of the above, plus the added bonus, that it is all to be suffered under pain of loss of liberty or livelihood.

What? Which private company is being given personal information to “slither through”?

The vast amounts of information being demanded here, some of it benign, some personal, but some very intrusive and offensive information, which in it's entirety, would be worth more than £250 Million in terms of the goldmine of market research potential dropped into the laps of any multinational corporation on the planet...much more. Certain cola corporations spend more than that per annum, on advertising and marketing alone.

And our medical records would be worth billions to the insurance industry but we still allow our GPs to hold those records.

Do you have any evidence that this information is going to be used for nefarious means? The fact that we’ve had a census every ten years for a very long time, including times using the same companies involved in the 2011 census suggests to me that there is little to worry about.

reply to post by johngtr

You never gave me my evidence either

Evidence for what?

im sorry i wont post before you, with my opinion next time

Saying that an act of parliament is not law is not an opinion it is a statement of fact, one which you cannot prove. Will you admit that?

reply to post by doobydoll

Does anyone know why it is such a crime to not complete the census form?

Because it is used to plan future services; if large numbers of people do not fill it out then the picture of the UK population is unclear and the need for services could be very badly misjudged to the detriment of those who need them.

For example imagine if the census shows 2 million people reaching the age of 90 in the next ten years and care places and related services are therefore planned to be sufficient to support that number; however ten years later there are 3 million people trying to use these services because 1 million were not declared in the census. The only people that hurts is those people who need these services.

Apologies for deleted post again,

Bad link, Hasty decision

reply to post by johngtr


I can't see your questions live can I? Will you copy them here?

reply to post by Mike_A


No i have decided against it as it requires filling in bank details

Apologies

I think it is absurd to say they need it to plan for the future. Many illegal immigrants will not be on the census. As for everyone else they know when we were born and when we die. They can't say it is to plan hospitals or future care for the old because how do they know when any of us are going to die.

I find many of the questions to be very intrusive. If we all fill them in with out kicking up a fuss how much more intrusive will the next census be.

Why should they need to know your educational qualifications. Or if you look after or help or support family members or friends or neighbours and for how many hours. Or how good your health is and if someone is caring for you.

Are you working or looking for work. Could you have started a job in the last two weeks if offered one.

What about how you travel to work - car, bus on foot etc, how many hours a week you work including paid and un paid overtime. Are you employed or self employed the name and address of your employer, what type of work do you do and what is your job title. Is anyone staying in your house over night.

On the one hand they say this is going to be kept confidential for 100 years and in the next breath they say they need the information to work out what your community needs. Which is strange considering they are cutting everything to the bone and have no money to improve anything.

They will let all authorities look at your information except you and other members of the public.

reply to post by Mike_A



Census Customer Services
Office for National Statistics (ONS)
Room 4300S
Segensworth Road
Titchfield
Hants PO15 5RR

I am going to write to this address and ask for the EXACT LAW that states i MUST fill out a sentence, i do not know how long they will take to respond but i will let you know, when i get a response,