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Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From An American Airlines 757

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posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by zimishey
I find your post very interesting. I cannot pretend to know all the details you refer to though I smell a rat--ie., I do NOT trust the official explanation of things. But I am very interested in your also pointing out the 'debnkers' tactics here, and I thought I would link this post/thread to a good video I saw yesterday which shows how disinformation works. And if we could apply it to this question we may not get manipulated away from the essentials. I recommend the watching of this video anyway:

THE TOP FOUR TACTICS OF DISINFORMATION

"Type 1: Provoke people with emotional and personal attacks

Disinformants seek to hijack the main topic and get people to divert their energies in to defending themselves or countering threats to their egoic identity.

Type 2: Introduce irrelevant & dead-end confusion

Whenever possible, the disinformant will introduce new facts or clues designed to conflict with opponent presentations — as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution to establishing the whole truth.

Type 3: Character assassination by association

Disinformation tactic number three associates opponents with unpopular titles such as “kooks”, “radical right-wing”, “loony left-wing”, “terrorists”, “conspiracy buffs”, “radicals”, “militia”, “racists”, “religious fanatics”, “tin-hat wearers”, “sexual deviants”, “crazed lone wolf” and so forth.

Type 4: Argue the details of a different or less important subject.

The fourth and final tactic of disinformation in this article facilitates perpetual application of disinformation even when major truths fail to be suppressed and become well known (such as Iraq WMD’s, The USS Liberty false flag attack, The Lavon affair, etc). Disinformants simply ignore the massive glaring truth in question and try to shift the focus on to a lesser topic or an alternative subject altogether, in an effort to draw attention away from the critical truth which is out in the open."


Oh, surely we're not seeing any of THIS here... /sarcasm

Brilliant post and clearly showing the efforts of some here for what it is. Thank you for posting this.




posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Seriously, They all better hope the American People don't find out it was an inside job.

All this information is a lot to digest. We as a Nation spent millions investigating every

single part of Bill Clinton's sex life. There needs to be a new investigation.

Way too many unanswered questions. The reason people reject it out of hand is

nobody wants to believe our government would be a part of this horrific event.

I really pray it went down like they said. If so, nobody should fear an investigation.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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Title of thread: Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From An American Airlines 757

Evidence:
The evidence the government was forced to give us due to a FOIA request shows it was NOT an American Airlines aircraft. And that it WAS a government aircraft.

does anyone have a comment on THIS!!?





* The initial GPS latitude/longitude data does not match gate D26 at Dulles from where the plane allegedly departed.

* The initial GPS type data showed the ground position as 3,000 feet off. It is American Airlines policy for every flight to manually enter the lat/long. This reading showed during the pre-flight checks so the plane would never have been allowed to take off.

* The flight data shows an in-flight GPS “auto-positioning” which was ONLY available on military aircraft at that time.




edit on 5-3-2011 by Thermo Klein because: changed a word



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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My response is pretty simple. Since P4T have been proved to spend large amounts of time simply making stuff up, I wouldn't trust any of their evidence one iota.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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Government was easy until the public became educated. Education gave us knowledge and understanding so one could think for oneself and worse - voice an opinion! Surely the greatest threat to any public is their own officialdom/government. That is just a group who basically taxes the public, uses that money to put into its laws to benefit the wishes of the powerful lobbyists.

In England our education system was extremely good up till the early 70's. Since then it has been steadily and stealthily diluted down.

I am highly suspicious of the 'terrorist' attack in London and I still puzzle over why the hell in the USA instead of flying into buildings, they simply didn't drop bombs from the planes.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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I propose a fair challenge that will answer this:

We NEED a copy of the FOIA request information - who can get it?

Although I agree with P4T (pilotsfor911truth.org...), on something as big as this I won't accept someone's blogpost or "word" about the flight data until I know for sure it came from the U.S. Government and is being read by people who know about this type of information.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein
I propose a fair challenge that will answer this:

We NEED a copy of the FOIA request information - who can get it?

Although I agree with P4T (pilotsfor911truth.org...), on something as big as this I won't accept someone's blogpost or "word" about the flight data until I know for sure it came from the U.S. Government and is being read by people who know about this type of information.


Anyone who knows how to read an Excel spreadsheet and can plot Lat/Long coordinates can do it themselves.

All this information and sources/footnotes are provided in the OP linked article as well as links to the data, cover letters from NTSB FOIA replies, as well as names and contact information at the NTSB to get your own directly from the NTSB.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
My response is pretty simple. Since P4T have been proved to spend large amounts of time simply making stuff up, I wouldn't trust any of their evidence one iota.


Exactly!




* The initial GPS latitude/longitude data does not match gate D26 at Dulles from where the plane allegedly departed.


Invalid, non GPS equipped aircraft




* The initial GPS type data showed the ground position as 3,000 feet off. It is American Airlines policy for every flight to manually enter the lat/long. This reading showed during the pre-flight checks so the plane would never have been allowed to take off.


Since they probably did full alignment with gate coordinates pushing TOGA at takeoff would trigger fast alignment at the deparure runway treshold (or displaced treshold)

Any other positions are irrelevant and bunk no matter what P4T tell you.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by rjh01a
 


It's actually in binary and needs an American Airlines template to read - although according to P4T the data didn't match AA, or even a Boeing data template. The original data is also password protected, and I don't have the password (might just be a P4T password, I'm not a member).



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by zimishey
 


Spot on assessment.

Excellent post zimishey.

Now, all we need to do is link to a counter-disinformation tactics video clip, and we're all set.

Anyone got any CDT video clips for us to study up on? We've got to do something, this is getting more ridiculous as time drags on, around and around, back and forth.

Real evidence and proof gets painstakingly researched and presented, only for certain cretins to attempt to derail and nullify and around we go again.

Personally, those most vocal on the OSer side of things should be forced to stay on topic or get banned.

BTW, here's a post you and others curious about 'fake' members may be interested in;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's a snippet from the thread:




Using the assigned social media accounts we can automate the posting of content that is relevant to the persona. In this case there are specific social media strategy website RSS feeds we can subscribe to and then repost content on twitter with the appropriate hashtags.

In fact using hashtags and gaming some location based check-in services we can make it appear as if a persona was actually at a conference and introduce himself/herself to key individuals as part of the exercise, as one example. There are a variety of social media tricks we can use to add a level of realness to all fictitious personas


So there you have it...it's here in black and white, *no* ambiguity whatsoever...TPTB are flooding the internet with fake accounts and fake members in order to post disinformation to forums, blogs, social networks, twitter and probably just about everywhere else where people communicate online.

Add to that, an Obama (or was it Bush) White house official said they were planning 'infiltrate conspiracy forums and websites, and sow confusion and division among members', words to that effect. Sorry, can't remember who it was who said that, a Jewish gentleman i believe if that helps rings a bell for anyone, i've searched here, (and i know it was posted here on ATS) but just can't find it.

Not such a 'tin-foil hat' scenario after all then, they *are* here, both real and artificial and their only intent is to confuse and divide, and generally put a cat amongst the Pigeons to thwart any meaningful debate.

Again, it's in black and white, and has been admitted to by the Whitehouse and now DHS security consultancy firms have too.

There's no conspiracy, if they openly admit it, yet still people won't believe their government is capable of crap like this, and roll eyes at the mere suggestion they would do things like this to prevent discovering the truth about 9/11.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Thermo KleinThe flight data shows an in-flight GPS “auto-positioning” which was ONLY available on military aircraft at that time.


Auto GPS positioning of the aircraft (lazy pilots dream)
or auto GPS alignment? We hat that back in 1996, customer option of course.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein
reply to post by rjh01a
 


It's actually in binary and needs an American Airlines template to read - although according to P4T the data didn't match AA, or even a Boeing data template. The original data is also password protected, and I don't have the password (might just be a P4T password, I'm not a member).


The download works for me.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

The above files can be opened in Excel. You need a zip utility to unzip the files. You can get one for free at winzip.com

The other information you seek is under Footnote 3 - [url=http://www.warrenstutt.com/AAL77FDRDecoder/NotesOnParameters.html[/url]

... as well as within the thread itself for another direct link to download the data from the P4T website and the cover letters they received.

@C46

Does this look like the IRS was aligned at the gate with Present Position and then "fast aligned" at the runway?



Perhaps this is the reason Capt Ralph Kolstad and the other Captains from American Airlines have said the aircraft would be grounded. How much time do you have flying an American Airlines 757?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by C46driver

Originally posted by Thermo KleinThe flight data shows an in-flight GPS “auto-positioning” which was ONLY available on military aircraft at that time.


Auto GPS positioning of the aircraft (lazy pilots dream)
or auto GPS alignment? We hat that back in 1996, customer option of course.


I'm going by what was said in the OP's link, here's the paragraph:


AUTO-ALIGNMENT AND GPS

Military aircraft were equipped with GPS (Global Positioning Systems) long before GPS was offered for Commercial use. When equipped, they can auto-align the Inertial Reference System. N644AA (American Airlines Flight 77) was not equipped with a GPS. However, when one looks through the data, it shows a GPS as "OPERational"(12) and an airborne auto-alignment. How can a GPS be "OPER" if the data is reported to come from an aircraft which doesn't have a GPS? The data shows that the Lat/Long plots auto-aligned with Radar plots in flight after departure(9). American Airlines aircraft do not have the capability of in flight alignment nor would such an aircraft depart with such a large error and an IRS as it's primary source for navigation. It is impossible for an IRS equipped American Airlines jet to give accurate position information if the system was not aligned at the gate. The aircraft needs to be stationary for proper alignment or else the navigational device will have large errors and could perhaps be fatal(10). According to American Airlines 757/767 Captain Ralph Kolstad who has actual flight time in N644AA, if the Inertial Reference System (IRS) is lost in flight (or shows large errors), an emergency has to be declared. The aircraft is required to sit stationary for more than 10 minutes in order obtain a full alignment of the Inertial Reference System prior to every flight, according to and as required by American Airlines 757/767 Operating Manual(11). How can an auto-align occur airborne if American Airlines aircraft do not have this capability nor a GPS? This is more evidence demonstrating the data did not come from an American Airlines jet.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by C46driver
Auto GPS positioning of the aircraft (lazy pilots dream)
or auto GPS alignment? We hat that back in 1996, customer option of course.


Yes, and a C46 is a Military version of the DC-3. So it seems you corroborate the OP that the Military did have Auto-Align capability.

edit on 5-3-2011 by rjh01a because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Thats because the windows on this side of the Pentagon had been replaced with blast resistant windows to
prevent shattering in case of truck bomb blast outside

911research.wtc7.net...



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by rjh01aHow much time do you have flying an American Airlines 757?


Zero hours.
However i do have 9200 hours flying the B737, 757 and 767 + a few WW2 aircrafts.

I've seen enough lies from P4T that anything coming from them ends up in the trash bin.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by C46driver

Originally posted by rjh01aHow much time do you have flying an American Airlines 757?


Zero hours.
However i do have 9200 hours flying the B737, 757 and 767 + a few WW2 aircrafts.

I've seen enough lies from P4T that anything coming from them ends up in the trash bin.


I ask again C46.

Does this look like the IRS was aligned at the gate with Present Position and then "fast aligned" at the runway?


edit on 5-3-2011 by rjh01a because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by rjh01aYes, and a C46 is a Military version of the DC-3. So it seems you corroborate the OP that the Military did have Auto-Align capability.


Wrong again, the C46 is a Curtiss-Wright aircraft.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by rjh01a
 


Agreed, and good point. P4T would have no reason to go faking the data. It is counterproductive to getting to the truth. Remember, P4T is driven by the same need we all have to find out the truth given that there are so many things that point to 9/11 not being committed by 19 hijackers. While on the other hand, shills are driven by the need to protect the government.

But what other things are there which would tend to support P4T's overall claim?

Well first of all, it is important to remember who had the FDR before the NTSB ever got it days or weeks later: The FBI. I've always wondered if anyone tried to look at that. Was the FDR's casing identical to the one that was delivered to the NTSB? Or did they use the same casing and just alter the data? There's only a few who would know the answer to that, and they would all be in the chain of custody for those first few days before the NTSB got the FDR.

Then we have to remember the huge story about the serial numbers missing in the FDR records- a bizarre thing still not explained to this day. Does anyone remember if this was the case with 77's FDR as well? I'm not clear on that.

But what bugs me the most is the overall way all the planes that day were able to penetrate their targets. In the case of 77, even moreso. I mean we are talking a section of the Pentagon that had just been reinforced with some pretty serious stuff. And the photos that people present of supposed wing damage on the sides of the hole at the Pentagon may actually support the following:

It makes total sense to me that they might be able to reinforce or build the nose of a plane to become essentially a missile penetrator using alloys such a tungsten steel or even depleted uranium, but that's all the fuselage of the craft would need to do- they wouldn't have to or need to reinforce the wings that way. In fact, that may be counter productive to the desired effect of deep penetration of the fuselage. So it would make sense there would be light to minimal visible effect of wing damage against such a hardened target- cause it probably wasn't the wings that were reinforced or built from one or more of these heavy metals- it was the nose/fuselage.

This situation would also explain how "11" and "175" were able to penetrate so far into the towers, before blowing up.

And furthermore, it may also explain why most of "93" ended up so deep in the ground: military project planes painted to look like commercial airliners, but really just special penetrating missiles with unreinforced wings.

So with P4T presenting what could be evidence of a plane swap on the ground or in the air, it does start making more sense. The jigsaw puzzle is coming together, one painstaking piece at a time.

And there also is the investigation that the guys at pumpitout did, calling into serious question the origin of the engine found at Church St.
edit on Sat Mar 5th 2011 by TrueAmerican because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by C46driver

Originally posted by rjh01aYes, and a C46 is a Military version of the DC-3. So it seems you corroborate the OP that the Military did have Auto-Align capability.


Wrong again, the C46 is a Curtiss-Wright aircraft.


But it is Military, is it not?

It sure looks like the Gooney Bird though.

What airline did you fly for which had 737, 757 or 767 in flight auto-align capability in 1996?

Anytime you wish to answer my above question, we're waiting.

Does the above lat/long plot look like the IRS was aligned at the Gate with Present Position and then fast aligned at the runway?







 
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