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Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From An American Airlines 757

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posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Lynda101 I still puzzle over why the hell in the USA instead of flying into buildings, they simply didn't drop bombs from the planes.


Eh? You're suggesting that the terrorists should or would have captured the aircraft, modified them so that they could drop bombs, and then used them as military aeroplanes until they got shot down? An odd stance.

And government may occasionally be pretty awful, but what do you think funded the pre 1970 school system? Not to mention street lighting, rubbish collection, the police, the army and a million other things?
edit on 5-3-2011 by TrickoftheShade because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by rjh01a


Originally posted by C46driver
Auto GPS positioning of the aircraft (lazy pilots dream)
or auto GPS alignment? We hat that back in 1996, customer option of course.


Yes, and a C46 is a Military version of the DC-3. So it seems you corroborate the OP that the Military did have Auto-Align capability.


The C-46 hasn't been in use by the military for some time. Built by the Curtis Novelty Company, it sported a Avgas-based cabin heater that would explode with regularity and convince all aboard that they had been hit by AA. You might want to look into whether the C46 was equipped with Autoalign during the Viet-Nam war. That should keep you busy looking into long-term anticipatory conspiracies.

ETA: The C-47 was the Douglas DC-3; the C-46 was the Curtis-Wright CW-20
edit on 3/5/2011 by pteridine because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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Hi C46 driver,

I haven't noticed your posts before, always great to have someone on board who has personal experience!

I recognize there is open posting on P4T so the information could be just as skewed as anywhere else. I'm curious about your overall opinion of 9/11 though - inside job or Original Story? Do you get the feeling the NTSB data was faked, and how do you rectify that it was provided by the U.S. government and doesn't corroborate with the expected flight data?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by rjh01a

Originally posted by C46driver

Originally posted by rjh01aHow much time do you have flying an American Airlines 757?


Zero hours.
However i do have 9200 hours flying the B737, 757 and 767 + a few WW2 aircrafts.

I've seen enough lies from P4T that anything coming from them ends up in the trash bin.


I ask again C46.

Does this look like the IRS was aligned at the gate with Present Position and then "fast aligned" at the runway?


edit on 5-3-2011 by rjh01a because: (no reason given)


It seems C46Driver doesn't want to answer the above question as he has evaded it twice now. Weedwhacker evaded it as well when asked.

Oh well, I guess they prefer character assassination attempts instead of answering the tough questions.

For those reading, Capt Ralph Kolstad and other American Airlines pilots statements are also supported by pilots at pprune who have no affiliation to P4T.

It's all well sourced in the OP.

So the question now becomes, who to believe? The actual data if you are able to plot a Lat/Long combined with verified pilots who have flown the actual aircraft in question... supported by pilots without any affiliation? Or "C46Driver" who evades questions with the sole retort of, "P4T are liars, so don't listen to them".

Hmmm... difficult choice. ./sarcasm

You can read more here of P4T addressing the arguments from "debunkers". with respect to the OP article.

C46Driver, have you confronted P4T directly?
edit on 5-3-2011 by rjh01a because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by rjh01a
 


Agreed, and good point. P4T would have no reason to go faking the data.


Are you serious? P4T thrive on the oxygen of publicity and sell stuff on their website. You'd have to be particularly naive to think it impossible that they might have reasons to fabricate evidence.

Anyway, it doesn't particularly matter, since it's a simple fact that they have lied in the past.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by General.Lee
 



2) The walls of the Pentagon are made of 18" of steel reinforced concrete. There was a nearly perfectly round hole at the inside of the 3rd ring. That's 9' of steel reinforced concrete that this aircraft penetrated. Really? An aluminum airplane pierced through 9 feet of steel reinforced concrete and was still intact and strong enough to leave a nice, neat hole on the inside wall of the 3rd ring?


Total lie. Did you make this up yourself or just parroting idiotic conspiracy site ?

Pentagon walls were brick inside a concrete frame . The exterior was covered in white limestone casing


The extensive use of reinforced concrete and non-reinforced masonry was one concession. Certainly the threat of any kind of terrorist attack on the building was far from the thoughts of the original designers. As a result, the Pentagon was constructed with a thin limestone facade over a brick infill between reinforced concrete floors, structurally supported by a reinforced concrete beam and column frame. Enough to protect from the elements but not from the potential forces of significant blast events. 2


The only steel reinforced concrete was in the support columns which were 15 inches

Scroll to bottom to see picture of wall construction

Note where the outer limestone casing were dislodged exposing the brick underneath

911research.wtc7.net...

In addition on the 2 lower floors there are are no interior partition walls between the exterior (E ring) and the
C Ring wall at the interior roadway (A-E Drive)


This argument is based on a misunderstanding of the Pentagon's design. In fact, the light wells between the C- and D-ring and D- and E-ring are only three stories deep. The first and second stories span the distance between the Pentagon's facade and the punctured C-ring wall, which faces a ground-level courtyard. There are no masonry walls in this space, only load-bearing columns. Thus it would be possible for an aircraft part that breached the facade to travel through this area on the ground floor, miss the columns, and puncture the C-ring wall without having encountering anything more than unsubstantial gypsum walls and furniture in-between.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
You'd have to be particularly naive to think it impossible that they might have reasons to fabricate evidence.


And you'd have to be particularly naive to believe P4T would alter data obtained from a FOIA request in the face of so many who have checked it.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by rjh01a
 


Agreed, and good point. P4T would have no reason to go faking the data.


Are you serious? P4T thrive on the oxygen of publicity and sell stuff on their website. You'd have to be particularly naive to think it impossible that they might have reasons to fabricate evidence.

Anyway, it doesn't particularly matter, since it's a simple fact that they have lied in the past.


Are YOU serious?
The only pilots in this thread can be found here pilotsfor911truth.org...

The Official Story is a lie, and you know it all!!!



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
You'd have to be particularly naive to think it impossible that they might have reasons to fabricate evidence.


And you'd have to be particularly naive to believe P4T would alter data obtained from a FOIA request in the face of so many who have checked it.


Apparently those who make such claims that P4T altered the data, do not know how to plot a Lat/Long.

It's easy Trickoftheshade. you can do it yourself!. Since the people who claim to be pilots here refuse answer this question, perhaps you might?

Does this lat/long plot look like it was fully aligned at the gate and then "fast aligned" at the runway?



Do you think P4T "altered" the above lat/long plot? Do you know how to plot a lat/long?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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Wow, funny how are the conspiracy simpletons "truths" are based upon internet postings and no physical observable fact (they called that the scientific method when I was a Physics major). But deficient minds always feel the need to feel that they "know" something that everybody else is just missing. It makes them feel smart, though they never accomplished anything intellectually in their lives, and makes them feel special. It's a basic example or narcissism. If these wastes of lives spent half the energy moving out of their mothers basements that they did reading hoaxes on the internet they might learn what it is to live the life of a true human being. Sad.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by thedman
 


Here's another link that shows what you're describing, that the walls were brick, and much less dense than reinforced concrete.

www.911review.com...

Now, not getting into too many details here, but when I look at the photo of the punchout, I see twisted re-bar, which is used to reinforce concrete. Scratches head.

My next observation is that, even if they were just brick walls, there is not enough density in carbon fiber and aluminum, even at high momentum, to pass through one brick wall, not to mention several, while maintaining enough of its integrity and mass to create the punchout hole. There would be a comparably sized chunk of something more dense than the concrete and twisted rebar on the outside of the hole.

Since there is nothing in any of the photos that can account for the hole, the more likely explanation is explosives.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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THIS is my only question, and is for the pilots in here:


could YOU fly that course in that (or any) aircraft, then find the pentagon, or even washington dc, after deviating from your original course without the aid of all your sophisticated technology and control centers?

think about the question. Supposedly, someone who had never been in the cockpit of this aircraft or flown one, managed to alter the flightplan, maintain the correct headings, and hundreds of miles later hit his mark WITHOUT THE AID OF AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS. How? did he read roadsigns?

is it really that easy?


cos if it is, you guys get paid WAY too much



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by nexusferox
 


Beyond the absurdity of the scenario, there is little tangible proof to support even the existence of the allegedly hijacked planes. We know damn well there should be conclusive security camera footage of the jet from many angles, and that if there were such records in existence we would have been shown them repeatedly on TV.

That there are none speaks volumes; that the footage that DID exist at the time has been confiscated and classified speaks louder.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


Aluminium what? If talking about the aircraft skin would be right, but just under skin are heavy substanial
structural pieces - ie the keel beam which is the largest part on an aircaft and supports the cabin floor and cargo
hold. Landing gear is made of high strenght steel to support 300,000 lbs of aircraft slamming down on runways at 150+ mph. Wing spars and ribs to hold fuel tanks and the engine mounts and jet engine themselves

In the alley outside the C ring were parts of landing gear truck which would have sufficent mass to punch thru the
wall. Also remember at Empire State Building in 1945 a motor from the B25 which hit punched completely thru the building to come out on opposite side and land on roof of adjacent building. This from an aircraft which
weighed 1/10 of 757 and was traveling at 1/3 the speed



The "rebar" looks to be wires pushed out by the impact



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by nexusferox
THIS is my only question, and is for the pilots in here:


could YOU fly that course in that (or any) aircraft, then find the pentagon, or even washington dc, after deviating from your original course without the aid of all your sophisticated technology and control centers?

think about the question. Supposedly, someone who had never been in the cockpit of this aircraft or flown one, managed to alter the flightplan, maintain the correct headings, and hundreds of miles later hit his mark WITHOUT THE AID OF AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS. How? did he read roadsigns?

is it really that easy?


cos if it is, you guys get paid WAY too much


It's not that easy. It's simply impossible. pilotsfor911truth.org...



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


no no i think i have it....from 30,000 feet the major cities have glowing yellow pushpins above them to help pilots find their way if they get lost. I've seen it personally in Google earth.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by zimishey
 


Spot on assessment.

Excellent post zimishey.

Now, all we need to do is link to a counter-disinformation tactics video clip, and we're all set.

Anyone got any CDT video clips for us to study up on? We've got to do something, this is getting more ridiculous as time drags on, around and around, back and forth.

Real evidence and proof gets painstakingly researched and presented, only for certain cretins to attempt to derail and nullify and around we go again.

Personally, those most vocal on the OSer side of things should be forced to stay on topic or get banned.

BTW, here's a post you and others curious about 'fake' members may be interested in;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's a snippet from the thread:




Using the assigned social media accounts we can automate the posting of content that is relevant to the persona. In this case there are specific social media strategy website RSS feeds we can subscribe to and then repost content on twitter with the appropriate hashtags.

In fact using hashtags and gaming some location based check-in services we can make it appear as if a persona was actually at a conference and introduce himself/herself to key individuals as part of the exercise, as one example. There are a variety of social media tricks we can use to add a level of realness to all fictitious personas


So there you have it...it's here in black and white, *no* ambiguity whatsoever...TPTB are flooding the internet with fake accounts and fake members in order to post disinformation to forums, blogs, social networks, twitter and probably just about everywhere else where people communicate online.

Add to that, an Obama (or was it Bush) White house official said they were planning 'infiltrate conspiracy forums and websites, and sow confusion and division among members', words to that effect. Sorry, can't remember who it was who said that, a Jewish gentleman i believe if that helps rings a bell for anyone, i've searched here, (and i know it was posted here on ATS) but just can't find it.

Not such a 'tin-foil hat' scenario after all then, they *are* here, both real and artificial and their only intent is to confuse and divide, and generally put a cat amongst the Pigeons to thwart any meaningful debate.

Again, it's in black and white, and has been admitted to by the Whitehouse and now DHS security consultancy firms have too.

There's no conspiracy, if they openly admit it, yet still people won't believe their government is capable of crap like this, and roll eyes at the mere suggestion they would do things like this to prevent discovering the truth about 9/11.


Thanks. A counter to disinfo is really to recognize what is being done and ignore It, dont take the bait. At that DISINFO site I linked you to here there is a survey of the tactics of disifno-agents---they're main advice or solution is to ignore. Admittedly this can be hard to do because they will provoke you to address their diversive tricks, especially if they are insults---and you tend to think you must 'safe face'---but really it takes away from the THREAD--the focus of investigation. So I recommend you totally ignore the schlock and IF they have any elemnt that belongs to the actual investigation to address that and ignore the rest----as hard as that often is, because you often wanna give back the same dissin you get lol



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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A couple reference photos from the IAD website:





Link to alleged offical NTSB data points plotted on map
Plotted data points from alleged AA 77 flight






edit on 5-3-2011 by Thermo Klein because: changed picture size



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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hey pilots i'm still waiting for an answer....

maybe WW is too busy on a nibiru forum destroying schitzophrenics, dunno.


cmon WW you seem so outspoken can you answer my question please sir?

how could you fly for hundreds of miles and find your destination so well unaided?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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If talking about the aircraft skin would be right, but just under skin are heavy substanial structural pieces - ie the keel beam which is the largest part on an aircaft and supports the cabin floor and cargo hold.


Where are the structural pieces that punched the hole? Where are the multi-ton titanium engines? There should be two holes for those, complete with engines sitting nearby. Why have none of the planes been forensically identified at any of these crime scenes?




The "rebar" looks to be wires pushed out by the impact






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