Fallen Marine's father says anti-gay pickets will draw gunfire

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posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by SMR
It becomes harassment when you have WBC shouting in the faces of passerby's when someone asks them to stop. Rather than walk away and not have an issue, they continue, which is harassment.


So if I’m walking downtown and there’s a group of people singing, if I ask them to stop and they don’t, that makes it illegal for them to sing? If I don't want to hear what they're singing, can't I just walk away?



WOW ... wasted huh. Such a waste to try and protect others from the same vile people so they don't have to go through what he did. Such a waste that he tried everything he could for the love of his son ... yeah, such a waste.


It’s a waste when it’s obvious that he was going to lose. He knew they were perfectly in their right. He knew the supreme court would never uphold such a restriction on free speech. He knew that when it comes to law, feelings don’t weigh nearly as much as rights.

He put himself through unnecessary stress. His funeral was uninterrupted. He was not harassed at his funeral. He could have continued with his life unbothered. But no, he decided he wanted to take from these people the freedom that his son supposedly died for.



SMR

posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by Epiphron
 


So say I am sitting having lunch with my kids at a park table. Say WBC members set up shop and do their thing.
They saw me there first but refuse to move and carry on with their chants, screaming all the hate while my kids are sitting there. If they continue to spout hateful crap after being asked to stop, that is harassment. Why should I have to move. I was there first. They "Target" groups and/or people. That's harassment.


Originally posted by Epiphron
It’s a waste when it’s obvious that he was going to lose. He knew they were perfectly in their right. He knew the supreme court would never uphold such a restriction on free speech. He knew that when it comes to law, feelings don’t weigh nearly as much as rights.

He put himself through unnecessary stress. His funeral was uninterrupted. He was not harassed at his funeral. He could have continued with his life unbothered. But no, he decided he wanted to take from these people the freedom that his son supposedly died for.

Again. No matter what he thought would or wouldn't happen, saying it was a waste is sad. I would do anything in the memory of my son when it came to scum like the WBC All the effort I made win or loose helped bring needed debate on whether it is lawful or not for what they do.
Is it a waste when someone goes through cancer treatment knowing they may not make it or is there that chance something could happen ?

Waste is something like frivolous money spending. Not standing up to hate driven mongers.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by SMR
reply to post by Epiphron
 


Who said anything about it being directed to just dead soldiers ? They protest and speak to and about others, living and dead.

Protesting on a street corner is fine. But watch the videos. People pass by and they scream their chants. Again. Not fully directed at their "Targets". They want to get their word out to everyone in the vicinity.
It becomes harassment when you have WBC shouting in the faces of passerby's when someone asks them to stop. Rather than walk away and not have an issue, they continue, which is harassment.


Originally posted by Epiphron
The father defamed himself by wasting 5 years of his life only to pay $100,000 to people that are glad his son is dead.

WOW ... wasted huh. Such a waste to try and protect others from the same vile people so they don't have to go through what he did. Such a waste that he tried everything he could for the love of his son ... yeah, such a waste.


It was actually worse than a waste because it was an attempt to take away freedom of speech. Of course we should feel sympathy for his son dying, but trying to take away peoples' rights will not bring help his son whatsoever.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by SMR
reply to post by mattdr
 


I never said they cant have "Free Speech" on public property. The "Illegal" part comes from harassment regardless if on public or private property.
The defamation part comes from words, spoken or written, that they use. Im not talking about the opinionated stuff like "God Hates Fags" and all that crap. I'm talking about the stuff they spew while holding those signs.

When does their "opinion" become something that they feel is fact and it ends up having negative affects on the other person.
People have had their businesses run into the ground because of these people. They protest businesses and customers have enough of it and never come back. They end up closing because they don't have enough business to keep open.

As far as "opinion" goes. They believe what they say to be "Fact", not opinion. Who decides what is opinion or not ? If they say it is fact, can we say, no, that's your opinion ? If they say their words are facts, then there is your defamation case. They say it is fact when it is not (opinion)


I don't see much of a difference between what is on their signs and what they are spewing to people while holding those signs. Both are forms of expression.

Opinions are often what people believe to be facts. When it is disputable I suppose it is an opinion. It's irrelevant what the Westboro people regard what they are saying because what it comes down to is that it cannot be proven one way or the other. So I don't see how it could be defamation.

The business owners should hold counter protests- that is the appropriate response. With a little creative thinking maybe they can figure out a way to counter protest which actually hurts the Westboro people financially as well.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by mattdr
 


You know what counter protests will do? Just bring WBC more publicity. Its a win-win for them. Going to these funerals is a waste of time for them and their cause and they know this, they go for two reasons, to get publicity and or try to instigate someone to assault them so they can sue.

The only way to defeat them is to get the media to totally ignore them, fat chance..

Freedom of speech doesn't mean jack when your six feet under and the father called it right. One day they are gonna picket the wrong funeral and end up on the receiving end of a bullet or azz whooping.

Let me dress up in a KKK uniform and go into Compton on a street corner with a sign saying N####$s are worthless.

Would i be allowed to do that? And how long will it be before im shot or beat down? hmmmmm
edit on 5-3-2011 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by ker2010
reply to post by mattdr
 


You know what counter protests will do? Just bring WBC more publicity. Its a win-win for them. Going to these funerals is a waste of time for them and their cause and they know this, they go for two reasons, to get publicity and or try to instigate someone to assault them so they can sue.

The only way to defeat them is to get the media to totally ignore them, fat chance..

Freedom of speech doesn't mean jack when your six feet under and the father called it right. One day they are gonna picket the wrong funeral and end up on the receiving end of a bullet or azz whooping.

Let me dress up in a KKK uniform and go into Compton on a street corner with a sign saying N####$s are worthless.

Would i be allowed to do that? And how long will it be before im shot or beat down? hmmmmm
edit on 5-3-2011 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)


Well then why not just start working on not getting offended. Really they are not harming anyone. It is more of a problem that we get offended by them than that they are trying to offend us. Maybe they are a good thing for society. I would like it if society became desensitized to all things offensive. Then we could all stop worrying about it and start working on important things like preventing people from getting killed in wars or starving.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by mattdr
 


I agree but its a matter of respect and honor. I just wouldn't picket at someones funeral even if it was someone who stood for something I didn't like. Its in poor taste and pretty classless imo.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by mtnshredder
reply to post by muzzleflash
 

One of the biggest problems with this country is "Political Correctness". To say it nicely Westboro needs a butt kicking. There's a place and time for everything, this isn't it! I could care less about their freedom of speech, how about a little respect for the one's that have fallen for their Right to protest and hold up their hate signs.



You are contradicting yourself.

The way to respect the sacrifice the soldiers made is to respect the freedoms they died for.

Gagging protesters is the exact opposite of what they fought to defend.

Please think about this.

I'm not contradicting crap. I will though, stand up for my falling bros and those that want to defame them. These people need to be treated as they treat others, an eye for an eye. This is my way of respecting them and their service not your way. You can keep silent about these idiots, I choose not too.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by mtnshredder
 


Ahmen.



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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I agree with the dad. I myself stated if i were properly armed (tazers, paintballs, bb pellets, etc...) I would give it right to the face of ANY male or female standing there with a SMILE on their face, while they are holding a sign that says "Pray for more dead soldiers" Honey you better pray that I never see you doing that kind of # because you dont even deserve a fraction of the freedom our SOLDIERS are dying for, to provide to you. Un-gratefull motherF%*^rs. I just cannot tolerate it. Disrespectful.



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by NerdGoddess
I agree with the dad. I myself stated if i were properly armed (tazers, paintballs, bb pellets, etc...) I would give it right to the face of ANY male or female standing there with a SMILE on their face, while they are holding a sign that says "Pray for more dead soldiers" Honey you better pray that I never see you doing that kind of # because you dont even deserve a fraction of the freedom our SOLDIERS are dying for, to provide to you. Un-gratefull motherF%*^rs. I just cannot tolerate it. Disrespectful.


The irony is that this type of attitude undermines our freedom more than the Westboro people. You are saying that you would resort to what amounts to assault, while they have not ever said that. What is worse- words/ expression, or actual violence? Tazers have a slight chance of harming or even killing someone, whereas expression does not. Expression can only harm those emotionally who allow it to affect them.

There might be pro-freespeech people who are extremely offended by your call to punish expression- as offended as you are by what the Westboro people do. The difference is that the people who are for free speech would tolerate your speech calling for restrictions on free speech and not try to punish you physically or try to outlaw your speech calling for restrictions on free speech.



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by SMR
 

This sounds a little juvenile but a volley of well thrown water balloons filled with urine and such would do the trick. They should take their political protest to the politicians and let the dead rest in peace.



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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Yes I would, its a private event. if your tresspassing on a funeral and disrespecting someones life, im going to give you a taser shot as a warning. Assuming I had one. Since I wouldnt, I would go with a stick but none the less, yeah. If they have the freedom to just spit on your dignity and that of the ones you love they deserve a little pushing back. Its standing up for what you Believe in. If they can do it so can the rest of the american public. So do you see where thats going? no where good.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by NerdGoddess
Yes I would, its a private event. if your tresspassing on a funeral and disrespecting someones life, im going to give you a taser shot as a warning. Assuming I had one. Since I wouldnt, I would go with a stick but none the less, yeah. If they have the freedom to just spit on your dignity and that of the ones you love they deserve a little pushing back. Its standing up for what you Believe in. If they can do it so can the rest of the american public. So do you see where thats going? no where good.


Well, if they are trespassing that is a different scenario, but the Westboro Church does this on public property.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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If another group decided to hold a vigil for our troops the same day, could they rent out the public space? If they got the permits before WBC, would them crashing the vigil be disturbing the peace? I was thinking maybe hold the opposite type of event. A silent one where we just hold candles and say prayers or sing hymns. Would this work? At least it would keep them away from the immediate area. No rights would be violated. The quiet group would just simply take up the space, beat WBC to the punch so to speak. At least a silent vigil would keep the wild counter protesters away too.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Just a hypothetical but forget about our Rights and the Constitution for a min. The way I feel about it is.... with respect comes freedom of speech but freedom of speech does not guarantee you respect. I'm my small little world Respect trumps Freedom of Speech any day of the week, especially at a funeral for christ sakes. Just my twist on it.
Phelp's and his idiot followers days are numbered anyway and I have a feeling it will be ten fold of what he's dishing out, karma can suck sometimes.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by quber
If it was my son's funeral they were protesting it would be their last, Freedom of speech or not. and when their church was burning down I wouldn't even shout fire. somebody will do something I am only surprised they haven't done it already.

Protest outside Government or outside Army bases but not at Funerals


I'm with you guber.

The SCOTUS has basically put a target on these SOBs now that all legal means of redress have been officially ended. It is time for illegal means; Law seldom equals justice.

WBC has played the law card to their advantage, but that can not shield them from true justice now. They have no idea what they have done with this "victory" in the Supreme Court: they have brought people to the end of their ropes, people who will not talk but instead will act.

I just wonder how long it will take. Maybe they do have a clue, and that's why they've canceled appearances.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Would my Freedom of Speech include running into a Crowded Theatre and shouting FIRE. Or when a plane is in the air and shouting BOMB. Or going into a Catholic Church or synagogue and shouting Anti-Catholic or Anti-Jewish Slogans. Or going into a NAACP meeting dressed as a Klansman and singing Racist songs. Or going into a hospital where a boy is dying because he was raped by a pervert and wearing a NAMBLA teashirt while singing boy love songs and shouting that the little bitch asked for it because he had blond hair and blue eyes. What a crock of #e.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:29 AM
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Hi guys, haven't posted for a long while however this has annoyed me to the point of posting. How westboro have got away with this for so long ASTOUNDS me. Everything they stand for, everything they spout, screams mental illness and brainwashing. They are scum. If they keep to their own little inbred community, then fine. But to preach it publicly is disgusting. Phelps clearly had inadaquacy issues as a young man, and it is a small mercy that this morally corrupt and disgusting waste of sperm is nearly dead. Anybody using or condoning "freedom of speech" as a guise to preach hate is either attention seeking or someone with a severe mental abnormality. If this happened in the UK i know where i would be and what I would be doing, they would need to pray to Gods supervisor. Now to those who will say "well you are preaching hate now, youre a hypocrite" lets bare in mind that its due to youre views that i am "allowed" to type this. America is becoming alot like the UK in pandering to the minority. To the poster who said "violence never solves anything", If Britain had stood with painted signs saying " stop it hitler" instead of shelling the sh*t out of him, how would the world be? Westboro are so deluded that words arent going to stop them, perhaps they need a universal language....rant over





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