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reply to post by Mapkar
I also wonder, when will it be illegal to take pictures of flying aircraft?...
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
Regarding the one that looks like it is spraying from the tail - hot air coming out of the engines takes a while to cool and condense - that is why there is always a gap between the engines and the contrails they generate. contails spread out and form clouds because the ice crystals they contain are good nucleation sites for other ice to form if the air is supersaturated - ie ice requires something to actually form on down to -42 deg C (ie at -42 water will spontaneously freeze without a nucleation site) - so without nucleation the atmosphere can actually contain a lot more moisture down to -42 than it can if there is nucleation - eg see the Wiki page on cloud physics - en.wikipedia.org... especially the section on supersaturation, and the Bergeron process the difficulties of photographing a/c and guessing heights are covered on this page - if you know sufficient data about your camera you can use image size as a rough and ready guide to altitude.
Those are all perfectly normal contrails and cirrus clouds.
This is what I am thinking too bm2, nothing intentionally nefarious, but this is my hypothesis in it all:
I think there are efforts to influence weather and/or climate. with good intentions, BUT, what worries me is that some chemical co. has worked their way into this issue, and sold something to a developing geo-engineering industry, convincing them that their product is beneficial. Now with any industry these days this concerns me.
Why? Because within that paradigm is where I start to worry about the effects of any chemicals used to "help" human kind/planet in any potentially dire climate challenges. Safety guideline compromise, chemical identification and cost cutting or lucrative profit margins is what worries me. I have seen, too often, profits come before people, and/or plain laziness too. I am thinking of the Gulf spill and the safety negligence involved with the alarms being disabled because they were disturbing people's sleep, or the acoustic monitors were passed up because of costs, AND how Haliburton used chems for fracking that were not okayed for safety because they were never disclosed due to trade secrets, what a fine loophole.Thread
So I think the chem ind has seen an opportunity to sale massive amounts of chems under the premise of being beneficial to us and the planet. Think of the money that could be generated. If we can think of it, you bet someone else in the industry has too. With some of these industries, it is almost as if they begin their designs or technology and think they can just deal with any problems as they arise, instead of waiting or determining the effectiveness and safety of what they are using. To reiterate my position, I don't think someone knows they are hurting people necessarily, but there are those that follow orders, thinking that what they are working with has been approved and is fine, effective and necessary. Right? Most employees aren't going to question the scientific validation of their company's product, that's what their scientists and, managers are for.
So my HYPOTHESIS regarding this matter is that the military and/or commercial airlines have been convinced(sold) of the notion that we must address climate issues, but the public need not know because of potential panic reactions. Lucrative contracts between military and chem co's may have occurred, because you know how aggressive marketer's can be, sell sell sell! The people involved with the dispersals, have been convinced they are harmless, but necessary.
Does this make any sense? I don't mean to veer off topic, but I felt compelled to respond to your comment because it resonates with my premise.
ETA: I feel I should include why I think anything unusual is occurring. I have seen the old footage/pics of contrails, but the only multiple ones that made criss crosses were groups of military planes in flight. I apprecite the notion of memories being fuzzy, but surely full sky criss cross patterns would have remained a childhood wonderment, just as clouds themselves have or the blue sky. You know how as a child you see your first few spider webs? Well you never forget that pattern, and I feel the full sky criss cross patterns would be permanently imprinted when I was a child, and I do not recall any, Additionally, I have wondered which came first, the multiple trails or the consp theories. I started noticing these things in 2000, 3 years before I ever even considered any conspiracies at all, other than the Kennedy Assassination and cannabis/hemp issues. So for me, it was the observation first, not the theory. So, how much has airplane traffic increased this century compared to the last decade of the last century? I am sure there has been an increase, but not enough to fill the skies. I have asked everyone in my family, particularly the elders, and none of them ever recall full criss cross patterns filling the skies, or watching a trail expand for hours to cover the sky.
Whew, finally got to make a full statement on my position...for what it's worth, there.
Last year, authorities ordered a record 840 flights in efforts to increase rain in 1.39 million square miles (3.6 million square kilometers) — roughly one-third of Chinese territory. They also fired 116,000 rockets and 890,000 artillery shells.
The materials used in cloud seeding include two primary categories, tied to the type of precipitation process involved. One category includes those which act as glaciogenic (ice-forming) agents, such as silver iodide, dry ice and compressed liquid propane or carbon dioxide, which are appropriate in cloud systems where the precipitation process is primarily cold (colder than freezing). Of the ice-forming materials, the most commonly used is silver iodide. The second major category is focused on cloud systems where the warm (coalescence) process predominates. In those environments, hygroscopic (water attracting) materials such as salt, urea and ammonium nitrate can be utilized. Of the hygroscopic materials, the most commonly used are salts.
What's the question??
Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
I think most of us know the difference between a perfectly clear day beginning to fill with natural cirrus clouds, versus clouds that form directly from contrails.
The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside.
Originally posted by Stewie
Let me just ask this simple question.
Do you think that the chemtrail skeptics here on ATS, I assume including yourself, provide a credible argument to the scientists and other professionals that put their NAME to their work while asserting that chemtrails exist?
Originally posted by gemineye
I do have a decent video camera with twice the zoom of the camera I used to take the pics. What I lack is a GOOD tripod, but that may change soon. I may even pick up one tomorrow. I have recorded planes before... back before I even started questioning the whole chemtrail thing. The vids were shaky as hell though, and I'd really like to prevent that. I'll see what I can come up with.
reply to post by NewlyAwakened
No, the latter wouldn't convert anybody who elevates the ego of "skepticism" to the level of religion.
Sure - but clouds forming from contrails is normal