I've been watching planes lately

reply to post by gemineye


s&f for some great pics..
If you see that last plane again please zoom in for a better pic if you can..
It does look like something on the tail but not enough resolution to be sure..

reply to post by observe50


Completely making stuff up, again....pulling it out of your nether regions???

....you will notice that normally the air traffic is always within the same path's and on spray days totally different.

Nope. Since, when talking about CONtrails, we are referring to the airplanes at altitudes of 25,000 feet and ABOVE....this means they are in cruise flight, or just beginning a descent (for a destination over 100 miles away) ...or, just about finished climbing to a cruise altitude (because they took off about 60 - 70 miles away from where you see them overhead). Typical final cruise altitudes in the range of 31,000 to 39,000 generally.

At those altitudes, the routes are just about the same, day in, and day out.....

SO.....although this is true:

You might even notice that your airport changes the traffic (take off and landing a wee bit differently...

...you apparently don't understand the process, and the why. Firstly, though....it has NO relevance to CONtrails....the direction the airports are using for takeoffs/landings.

Secondly, the only reason that drives the changes in runway direction is wind direction. In some specific airport situations, the direction of landing in particular might be dictated by the types of Instrument Landing facilities available. This will be in the case of bad weather, low ceilings and visibility (fog) and otherwise crappy weather....when you won't see any CONtrails anyway!!!

You don't have to take MY word for it, about the usual routes, between cities. The flight plans of every airplane on an IFR flight in the USA are available, if you just bother to look.

For instance, follow this link:

flightaware.com...

You can either input a specific flight number, or as I did, click on "Forgot Flight Number", and input two cities, departure/destination. Here, I used KEWR/KIAH (Newark, NJ and Houston, TX).

As you see, there is a list of many flights, to include those from "today" and "yesterday" (that range is selectable, too)...

Click on the flights, for their info. For example, Flight 481, a B-777, on 4th March, 2011:

Route: BIGGY J75 GVE J37 SJI WOLDE3 (Decode)


Date: Friday, March 04 2011


Duration: 3 hours 33 minutes

In the "Route" line, that decodes as a waypoint (an "intersection") near the airport (EWR), which is located along a Jet Airway (J-75). That Airway continues for a distance, until it reaches a VOR (GVE), which is the "Gordonsville" VOR, in western Virginia. Then, it branches to J-37, to another VOR (there are many others, located on same Jet Airway...read the "decode") (SJI). SJI is "Semmes", near Mobile, AL. From there is a published Arrival Procedure for the routing and descent info into IAH.

It is really pretty simple, once you learn how to read it. (AND, after years and years of practice!!).

You can see all the charts, the "High Enroute" charts, at www.skyvector.com...

IN addition, loads of info at www.airnav.com...

Airports, Navaids, and Waypoints (or, "fixes").


Have a look, at either that same flight, over a large range of dates....or, look at other flights, same city pairs, different times, different days. You will see the routings are almost always nearly identical. Most changes will be seen on East/West bound cross-country flights, due to the strong winds usually encountered in those directions....Routings more North/South sometimes, in order to minimize impact, or take advantage, depending.....

reply to post by GenRadek


I have researched it, and i AM denying ignorance... those engines were filthy emitting masses of crud into the skies,, so if these engines now are so much better why has it gotten WORSE lately.

Flat out facts are that these things have increased in an incredible fashion and happen every day, when i never saw ONE before in these parts.

Air traffic not much higher, I have been witness to many airshows, hung out at airports, been an avid skywatcher, nothing matters but the fact that these trails have now decimated the sky , and i cannot see the stars, and i CANNOT see them on clear nights in the goddam mountains either.

I don't care about what you think , i care that the skies are destroyed, and that your type will do anything to deny conspiracies, you guys show up in any threads that actually matter to the populace.

The idea that 9/11 is all figured out, that the skies are NORMAL , trails are cool...nothing AT ALL is anything other than the world view of the governments, makes me sick lol.

I have good reasons to doubt what most people are led to believe, and soon i the truth will out...and I will be there.

reply to post by GrinchNoMore


Its a simple study of engine mechanics and chemistry. A cleaner burning engine produces more water vapor. More water vapor = more contrails.

And no they are not "increasing" everyday. Some days the atmosphere is ripe for persistent contrail to form (ie weather front, low pressure system, etc). Other days its not. Most contrails form when a front is coming and there is moisture in the upper atmosphere.

Also, more airplanes are in the skies now than before. Maybe you never noticed them before, until this stupid chemtrail crap floated up online and TV, an then all of a sudden, you "notice more of them" than before. I'm sure I can have you notice more cars of a certain make and model if I tell you to look for them, or mention them A LOT. I think there is a psychological term for that, I'm not sure.

Also I dont see how the stars have been decimated. I live in Chicago, right near O'hare, but with enough lights from the city all around to have a perpetual twilight. I can see Saturn's rings with my cheap telescope on a good night, and Jupiter's moons with my binoculars. I watched falling stars, the space shuttle fly by, ISS, even satellites going by. Hell I've even seen the aurora borealis from Chicago once. So I really dont know how you cannot see them well in the mountains, if I can see them smack dab of a major metropolitan city. Oh, and there are a LOT of contrails over my house here too. They just show up when there is a change in the weather coming. There are no chemtrails whatsoever. I recommend you check the weather data for you area the moment there is a large number of contrails persisting around you. If there is a weather front coming or something, you will see the results or hints from the contrails

From my observations at home, I think they only really need to spray about once a week, in my area, the air is not conducive to contrails, so its only once every few days that I see a chemtrail in the sky. Most of those are just condensation, and perhaps chemtrails are only sprayed once every few days. Most of the time that I have seen chemtrails, were on especially clear days. Its one of those things that is difficult to prove, because if they were spraying a chemical from planes, it would be almost indistinguishable from regular contrails, and since they would be military planes, their activities would be classified from public eyes. What is needed are some government officials/military personell to step forward about the issue, however, if they really are spraying chemicals, I would imagine that the individuals who are flying the planes would have to have undergone strict psychological testing to ensure that they would not leak the information the public.

reply to post by GenRadek

Ha HA, Radek.
If you live in Chicago, you don't see the stars.
Go to Big Bend, and SEE the stars.
Of course, if they are not chemtrailing...
BTW, you should copy, cut and paste. Your comments haven't changed in about a year. Must get old for you.

reply to post by Stewie


Ahh Stewie, its just too bad that you dont step away from the conspiracy sites once in a while and geta breath of fresh air and see the real world.

Yes, even for Chicago standards, I can see stars. And yes I have seen the previously mentioned heavenly objects. And yes its no comparison to what I saw in Minnesota (Milky Way, tons of stars, etc) however, its still pretty damn good for a city.

And what copy and paste answers? Oh you mean the same answer about contrails? They are facts. They dont change. What I typed hasnt changed since. Just because you dont understand meteorology, and refuse to learn something new, doesnt mean others cant learn it and help dispel this chemtrail BS.

I have been noticing that there has been an extreme increase in the amount of planes flying in the air just over the past year or so and most of them have been passenger planes but honestly is there that many people that they need to fly in and out of these airports this steadily, i bet there passenger planes not to hold passengers but to hold tanks full of the chemtrail content so they can disperse alot more of it alot longer

flogging a dead horse here but what the heck vapour trails off of the back of aircraft form at a small distance behind due to turbulance off said aircrafts wings .. whereas the one that purports to be a chemtrail doesn't form at a small distance but DIRECTLY behind.. ( turbulance dissipates vapour trails, whereas if coming directly off the tail would ignore/avoid turbulance off wings) but!! you'd think that they would camoflage better....

reply to post by believer74


Corrections:

...vapour trails off of the back of aircraft form at a small distance behind due to turbulance [sic] off said aircrafts wings ..

No, not "turbulence", per se.

IN cases of VERY humid air (high relative humidity, for the temperature) some short-lived vapor condensation may appear, due to both the extreme compression, and/or rapid expansion of the heavily water vapor-laden air as the airplane disturbs it. In actuality, this is how Nature makes clouds, too....air moves either due to heat temperatures ("thermal activity") or orthographic lifting (wind blowing over hills, and mountains lift the air-mass).

BUT, all of those cases from liquid water condensation.....and that will usually tend to evaporate much faster than the sorts of "contrails" we normally talk about --- which are ICE crystals. Formed by the compression, heating and rapid expansion of the air...and the added elements form the combustion of fossil fuels. The water vapor that condenses out from its gaseous state freezes instantly, forming contrails. Sometimes, when conditions are favorable, those contrails can remain, and will either join existing CIRRUS clouds produced naturally, or more CIRRUS will be encouraged to form, by the existence of the contrails.

....whereas the one that purports to be a chemtrail doesn't form at a small distance but DIRECTLY behind..

Again, not entirely accurate. "DIRECTLY" behind the engines, yes....but always a certain distance...which varies according to conditions, and engine type. The "wet" condensation (I'll call it) may appear to "flow" briefly off of many different parts of the airplane's surfaces. One of the most extreme visual examples (and not seen each time) is when breaking the sound barrier. The shock-wave is compressing the air to a great extreme, very briefly. A quick shutter speed can capture the instant:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/17900ccac703.jpg[/atsimg]

See here --- Foggy, misty weather (hence, VERY humid) and if you understand aerodynamics, you know how the air is affected as it moves over the tops of the wings. You can see the effect of the vapor is brief, and irregular....because the air is not homogeneous, but varies greatly as you move through it:




Engine CONTRAILS....that can persist, because they are ice crystals, in extreme sub-zero temperature air (filmed from the vantage point that I am most used to seeing them from):

Great pictures!! To me, all of those pictures aside from the last ones look like airliners. But that last one there is no gap between the trail and the plane.

What worries me is that it looks like the trails are coming froom an external pod on the tail section of the plane, not the engines. Which makes sense, I just don't see those. But hey who's to say they aren't similar to a crop-duster :p

reply to post by Sforscott


I presume you are referring to the last photo, from the OP?? (Opening Post)?

....it looks like the trails are coming froom an external pod on the tail section of the plane, not the engines.

NO, you are mistaken. DO you understand perspective, and angles?

LOOK again....the contrails have formed a fixed distance AFT of the engines...the horizontal stabilizer is just "appearing" to have the contrails emanating from it, due to the angle of view, when the pic was snapped.

IF you took that same snapshot, and could move it in 3 dimensions, you would see. (Try it with a model airplane...something you can move around, view from different angles, to see for yourself...)


Here....a video example. @1:00, due to the angle, one plume of contrail SEEMS to be coming directly from the A380's vertical tail...see? But, watch as the airplane gets closer, and the angle changes....:

reply to post by weedwhacker


wind rushing over wings creates turbulance( or wild air) behind the wings.. I used to be in the Air Training Corps so am familiar with this principal..

reply to post by believer74


You are probably thinking of "wake turbulence".....

Maybe you were in the "Air Corps"...but I was an airline pilot, major US airline, for about 24 years....smaller commuter airplanes before that...Flight Instructor before, that, etc. About 20,000 hours total time. I kinda know a bit about flying.....


As those videos show.....it isn't "air turbulence" but the compression and rapid expansion effects that will cause the "momentary" water condensation to appear. Only when conditions are humid enough. The wings (and other parts of the airframe too) have the affect on the air, as the airplane moves through it.

Remember that contrails, as defined, are different. THEY are water vapor that has condensed out, but in temperatures SO cold that it freezes into tiny ice crystals, instantly...forming what are, to all intents and purposes, cirrus-type clouds. The air that has been "processed" through the heat and combustion of the engine undergoes a lot more changes, than the air merely being disrupted by the airplane's passage. And, the fuel itself contributes, making more H2O through the heat and chemical recombination, from the basic elements that make up the fuel.