Are They Spraying Anything?

just wondering, how much exactly does it cost for you to sell out all of mankind? because they couldnt pay me enough to knowingly make a life of deceiving everyone else for the benefit of a few rich monsters...

reply to post by HenryPatrick

Can you tell me what you find problematic with the OP?
That would leave some room for discussion.

reply to post by Phage


What about the endless soil sample results that seem to point to an over abundance of aluminum changing the pH of the soil? Those soil results aren't just in that documentary but I've seen many from Canada and many other countries, and not all of these test results are published online.

I still haven't heard any good counter arguments about why Monsanto developed aluminum resistant crops? There's so many arguments pointing to chemtrailing really happening than the counter debate that it isn't and would never happen. We know they do whatever they want whenever they want and tell us about it later.

reply to post by Phage


Probably the same reason that you think all contrails are just vapor trails and nothing more than a little exhaust,

Gotta latch onto something.

By the way do you like "contrails" ? Even if they ARE only exhaust and vapor reactions that can spread across hundreds of square miles from just one trail alone...do you think these do NOT affect the environment, pollute the skies and allow the earth less sun ??

I wish you would focus your studies on something on the lines of... HOW CAN WE ELIMINATE CONTRAILS.

Surely the tech is available so that this abomination in the sky does not need to happen !!

reply to post by JibbyJedi


Aluminum in the soil has been a problem for many many years.

Please take a look at this snippet The Botanical Gazette, vol. 71, published in 1921.




Link

reply to post by JibbyJedi

Yes. When aluminum is present in acidic soils it can cause problems for crops. That has been true since long before the "chemtrail" phenomenon. Some places have more aluminum in the soil than others. That's sort of the point of the section of the book I linked in the OP.

Mention has been made before that aluminum is present in the soil as an oxide, hydrated oxides, hydroxides, phosphates, and silicates. But which of these compounds breaks up so readily in the soil to form soluble salts that proved injurious to crops in some soils

Soil Science

reply to post by GrinchNoMore

Where I live (in the tropics) there are few contrails because the conditions do not favor them often.
The effects of contrails on climate is a topic of a good deal of study. If we want to eliminate contrails there are two choices:
1) Ban air travel
2) Force aircraft to fly at altitudes which are very inefficient and thus burn even more fuel than they do now. Thus dumping more exhaust into the atmosphere.

Once again, Phage tells it like it is. Once again, the chemtrail aficionados come in calling names and present zero hard evidence to refute the OP presentation.

Phage

reply to post by Phage


If you lived somewhere that gets alot of cloud, and when the sun comes out it gets completely blocked by these "contrails" and they did NOT appear anywhere in the region before,,man i have talked to THOUSANDS of people here in Vancouver, Canada who all know they did not happen before... you would be pissed as i am.

I love the sun, i do not wear tanning lotions, no hats, just inhale the sun when i can, and then a jet flies by ... i am NOT lying when i tell you that these did NOT happen !! I have been a skywatcher for my whole life and in the last 10 years suddenly they overtake everything , the stars, the sun, the weather...

Flying at a level that produces contrails to save money ?? Maybe... How is it they did not know of this before ??

Are there a lot of literature out there pre-industrial age regarding aluminum in soil levels?
That article seems more like they were testing the soil in Illinois and were stating the results. Was the soil near any aluminum production facilities? How many industries have been polluting the soil for decades? What happened to acid rain? No one ever talks about that anymore.

Even if they are spraying, there are so many other possible causes for soil and water samples being off, it is nearly impossible to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt where the pollutants came from for sure.
I really would like to see a fresh contrail sample from a plane producing a sustained contrail to be 100% certain one way or the other.

It is a good idea to have aircraft fly at altitudes that aren't conducive for contrails, who is going to bring this up to Congress or the EPA?

reply to post by GrinchNoMore

Flying at a level that produces contrails to save money ?? Maybe... How is it they did not know of this before ??

This has been known to pilots as long as there has been flight. The reson they do not fly at lower altitudes is mainly economical and range.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
There is no lack of evidence that something is being released as in geo-engineering going on.

where is this evidence then? Why is the "evidence" that IS being released such piss-poor quality??

Not too many people can tail gate one of these planes and take fresh, untainted samples from the plane's exhausts, so this merry go round argument of lack of evidence can go on forever until that happens.

It doesn't take "too many people" - it only takes one, properly carried out.

There are air-air videos of contrails - even one where a jet passes through another contril, so it is clearly possible.

If is really so worried about what is being sprayed then I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to get this done!

then we for get things like this www.abovetopsecret.com...

Deadly Chemical and Dismal Safety Records Put Millions Living Near Refineries at Risk

text from article but the thought is if this is in the air would that not add to ground soil samples, just be cause i am all for chem trails that is if it vapor of jet exhaust it should dissipate,not linger or from a cloud. but if that be the case then that is the case or cause but i am not convinced that is just jet exhaust.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Are there a lot of literature out there pre-industrial age regarding aluminum in soil levels?

What would you expect? Here's teh wiki article on teh history of it - en.wikipedia.org...

Given that it is the 3rd most common element in teh earths crust I suspect there are billions of tons of it.

and given that it couldn't be isolated industrially until 1825 I'm unsure how those billions of tons would ahve gotten into the soil, or where they would ahve been obtained from in teh first place, in the 190 years since it was first produced in pure form.

It is a good idea to have aircraft fly at altitudes that aren't conducive for contrails

Why? Jet aircraft fly as high as possible for economic reasons - it uses less fuel.

reply to post by bekod


Yep - well that's nt really news to anyone - not sure what your point is tho??

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Not too many people can tail gate one of these planes and take fresh, untainted samples from the plane's exhausts, so this merry go round argument of lack of evidence can go on forever until that happens.

why? Couldn't a few people who care deeply for the earth and post often on ATS pool their money and rent a test flight to go up and take air samples? Or is that too much work. Maybe it's not that big of a deal.

(that wasn't directed at you per say, it was at the whole chemtrail crowd) full of talkers.

reply to post by epicfail


You'd think people like Cliff Carnicon would get some financial backers together and make it happen to prove their claims.

About time they put their money where their mouth is.

Thanks for addressing this one, I was curious about the accuracy in the vid. I am still convinced of the geoengineering efforts and weather modification experiments. I don't necessarily think anything nefarious is going on, but I also feel like they are not telling the whole story, as in genuine concerns for climate change that must be addressed or we could all suffer. I understand the hysteria factor too though, I just want to know as much about the issue as possible, and how many safety guidelines are being followed/created with any dispersals. Or, as the doc indicates, we are spraying first and worrying about any potential negative side effects later. That is what bums me out....

Just ran across this thread and am curious to your take on it. It discusses the use of sulfur clouds in the skies and iron shavings in the ocean. www.abovetopsecret.com...
I know, another doom n gloom video, but still, is there anything of concern in this one? Seems the sulfur is a new element in it all.

Peace,
spec

ETA: epicfail, I have wondered the exact same thing! Why hasn't anyone gotten any samples? I suppose that could be an enormous feat, but possible, no? Maybe a helicopter or something?

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

Just about every document (article, patent) concerning geoengineering proposals includes clear caveats about the possibility of unforeseen consequences. The UN recently passed a resolution (for whatever that's worth) prohibiting the unilateral implementation of large scale testing of geoengineering techniques. Everyone involved is fully aware how little is known about the full effects of such efforts. There is no "spray first" attitude shown in any of the literature. We are not yet at the point in climate change where the panic button is pushed but if and when we reach that point we can only hope that consensus can be reached as to how to best deal with it.

Sulfur injection is actually one of the earlier proposed methods of geoengineering. It is just as problematic as the others. Iron fertilization of the ocean is a terrible idea.

I was enjoying the discussion going on in the other thread phage. I question your motives for switching. There is a lot of good information in the other thread to which you didn't answer. Both before my post and after.

I invited both the movie producers and the experts from the movie to the other thread. Your switching threads could be viewed as an underhanded tactic and frankly I'm a little miffed. I respect you and your skepticism and logical arguments to frankly dissect this information. Switching venues negates the hours of research already presented in the other thread. Also it undermines my efforts to get the movie producers and scientists to come contribute to the discussion. If they see a dried up thread they are less likely to contribute.

Why phage?

You leave me shaking my head sadly.

Please address the issues in the other thread, thank you. I have asked several questions which have not been answered. Sadly my respect for you just went down a notch with this underhanded move. I invite all of you to contribute to the ongoing discussion of this topic already started in BurnTheShips thread (not mine) here:
Burntheships ATS thread on this topc with discussion already in progress.