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Is ATS Supporting Ignorance Concerning Chemtrails? I think so.

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posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


I'm one of the 'chemtrailers' that doesn't say that. I'm not in the least surprised that Phage has showed up, for certain reasons.

I believe in contrails, and I believe that 'chemtrails' are a very real possibility. Still researching; despite being 'warned off' (thread to follow soon, describing what happened).

Phage - don't persist in lumping everyone into the same basket - it looks suspiciously like ignorance/ prejudice.

That is all... Carry on with the game.




posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by FlyInTheOintment
 

Ok, fair enough.

Then, if you don't believe that contrails cannot persist, etc. why do you believe that something is being "sprayed"? What distinguishes "chemtrails" from contrails? Why do you believe that "chemtrails" which are said to have suddenly appeared in the mid 1990's, are any different from the contrails which have been observed for almost 100 years.
edit on 2/27/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by FlyInTheOintment
 



I don't doubt the military is actively trying to manipulate the weather. "Normal" contrails are toxic enough, and after 911 when the air traffic was down for three days, there was a measurable change in weather, meaning that contrails DO modify the weather.

After 911, I have reason to distrust anything coming from our criminal government.

After learning about Operation Mockingbird I have reason to doubt everything I used to take for granted as fact...everything from the Moon Walks to Darwinism.

I tend to doubt history as we know it now, because I see history as just a string of self-serving lies propagated by the owner class.

I sincerely doubt the existence of Commercially Viable Nuclear Energy...that one will be a tough one to prove or disprove to myself. I expect to go to my grave doubting that one because I'm pretty sure we'll never witness a nuclear holocaust.

I am an anarchist who firmly believes that any government that puts profits a. of people is your enemy.

I find it very easy to believe some contrails are chemtrails. And I still wouldn't put it past our masters to try something so blatant and in your face as a clandestine weather modification program like that.

However, there are ways to check your suspicions and its not nearly as tough as nuclear physics. I have compared my "chemtrail" photos against the easily available atmospheric records. Each photo was taken on a day when conditions for persistent contrails were optimal. I have to admit to myself at this point I have every right to be suspicious, but I have no proof to sustain the hypothesis that what I've witnessed are weather modification programs.

I have even considered that since contrails are relatively predictable, it would make sense that the military are doing their testing and spraying during those times, which would be necessary in order to fool pilots...but here I stray from Occam's razor just a bit.

Until I can prove otherwise, what I've seen are just garden variety contrails...and you know what, that fits nicely into my belief that TPTB have always inflated the image of their power to make themselves seem invincible. Chemtrails (like nukes) fit that meme...so when I look at this, cui bono points right back to the powers that be. It suits them for us to be squabbling about this. We don't need chemtrails to be outraged that money grubbing governments and corporations are poisoning us and blocking our sun with exponentially increasing contrails.

I say they're using planted stories about their ability to control the weather at will, and create earthquakes at will, and blow up the world a thousand times over. They do this to keep us afraid...their castles are built on illusions.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Quite a difference from "contrails persisting" to that of "one contrail covering half the dam sky".

How do you figure a single contrail can continue to spread and grow for hours on end ??



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by Phage
 


Quite a difference from "contrails persisting" to that of "one contrail covering half the dam sky".

How do you figure a single contrail can continue to spread and grow for hours on end ??


Well it was first noticed in the 1920s

a.imagehost.org...

And a lot of contrails in the sky, from the 1960s
c.imagehost.org...

And from an old weather book
a.imagehost.org...



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by GrinchNoMore
 

You can read about it here. In a paper from 1970.


The spreading out of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent conditions exist from 25,000 to 40,000ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.

journals.ametsoc.org...



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by Phage
 


Quite a difference from "contrails persisting" to that of "one contrail covering half the dam sky".

How do you figure a single contrail can continue to spread and grow for hours on end ??



How do you figure it cant ! or do you have your own weather ballon up there at the time taking measurements?
NO! didn't think so!



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 



and after 911 when the air traffic was down for three days, there was a measurable change in weather....


That is a specious argument, since weather does change, anyway, from day to day. Just this week for instance, after a night of sleet, it cleared up, was severe clear for three days in a row...no contrails, no nothing. Hardly any clouds, except a very few occasional low altitude stratus. Didn't last long. Airplanes still flew, normal as ever, though. SO?? Explain that?

Do you understand the concept of a fallacy, and argument from?



After 911, I have reason to distrust anything coming from our criminal government.


Irrelevant. At worst, the government was incompetent/dysfunctional, in not stopping the plot that was brewing before it reached fruition. Doesn't relate at all to contrails, though.....


edit on 27 February 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 



I say they're using planted stories about their ability to control the weather at will, and create earthquakes at will, and blow up the world a thousand times over. They do this to keep us afraid...their castles are built on illusions.


So what does that make those of us who try to explain why there is nothing unusual about persistent contrails.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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Well I was neither here nor there about Chem-trails until last week. My husband and I were in Brookings OR on business, while I waited for him in the car I looked up and saw the whole sky was lined in huge blocks like game squares! I thought what the hey...and then I saw way high another line being added.

When my husband came out I showed him and he didn't know what to think, there are no large airports around for some weird holding pattern, we .ed So on 101 toward crescent City Ca at about Smith River the high flying jet that was still above made an incredable turn, a tight U like they do in airshows and started another leg of the tic tac toe pattern. the large grid went from the mountains to the beach stopped at the ocean and went from as far as I could see North in brookings Oregon and South to Smith River about a 20 min drive.

edit on 27-2-2011 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by Gerizo
 





Listen here Jester, the only thing funny was you photoshopping a rainbow over a picture which showed one "chemtrail" line and some wispy clouds. What you posted and what I have seen in the sky are in NO way shape in form the same. Unfortunately, the ATS media site will not allow me at this time to upload my picture to post it for all too see. But, I have included a link which shows "exactly" what I was talking about and as soon as the ATS media is working again I will include this picture in a post.


So if your pic is so good then another member would probably post it for you,just ask them. Now to the pic I posted came from a site of contrails from around the world. Take a look. Since the posted pic was from there and you want to say it was doctored by me then feel free to assume. Also you do know that a rainbow effect in the cloud or contrails is caused by water crystals that are in the contrail or cloud.?

Why not post the link then if you have it.
edit on 27-2-2011 by tsurfer2000h because: text



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Char-Lee
 


I'm always amazed at these type of reports! How do you think aircraft route from one area to the other? Air Traffic Control control and separate these aircraft that you see covering all points of the compass. If they cross each other and the conditions are right those patterns will form. Have a look at what it looks like from the Pilots perspective.



In that mix of airliners you will also have military aircraft going about their business. In say a zone going from the mid 20 thousands all the way up to 40,000 feet. The likes of air refuelling tankers and Airborne Early Warning aircraft setting up racetrack routes. Again, if the conditions are right they will produce contrails. No mystery or conspiracy, but just jet engines reacting with the meteorological conditions.

TJ



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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I've come to the conclusion that chemtrails re some kind of religion. No matter how well explained they always go back and worship them as their own.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by tommyjo
reply to post by Char-Lee
 


I'm always amazed at these type of reports! How do you think aircraft route from one area to the other? Air Traffic Control control and separate these aircraft that you see covering all points of the compass. If they cross each other and the conditions are right those patterns will form. Have a look at what it looks like from the Pilots perspective.



In that mix of airliners you will also have military aircraft going about their business. In say a zone going from the mid 20 thousands all the way up to 40,000 feet. The likes of air refuelling tankers and Airborne Early Warning aircraft setting up racetrack routes. Again, if the conditions are right they will produce contrails. No mystery or conspiracy, but just jet engines reacting with the meteorological conditions.

TJ



I have lived here for 15 years....we see very few aircraft in this small coastal area. I am not refering to some random lines this was an evenly spaced grid which was still being built after watching over an hour...none of it disapated or even distorted on a clear windless day for all the time I watched, we have a few coast guard and fire planes choppers if there is a forest fire, and a few small aircraft and a couple of personal jets and small shuttles land in crescent City, twice in these years I have seen military fly over. Think what you want I have a military pilot for a son and he doesn't see it your way!



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Yankee451
 



I say they're using planted stories about their ability to control the weather at will, and create earthquakes at will, and blow up the world a thousand times over. They do this to keep us afraid...their castles are built on illusions.


So what does that make those of us who try to explain why there is nothing unusual about persistent contrails.


I don't know what you mean by that. I don't have any evidence to prove there is anything unusual about the contrails I have in any of my pictures. That would make us in agreement about persistent contrails, but probably in disagreement about other subjects.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Yankee451
 



and after 911 when the air traffic was down for three days, there was a measurable change in weather....


That is a specious argument, since weather does change, anyway, from day to day. Just this week for instance, after a night of sleet, it cleared up, was severe clear for three days in a row...no contrails, no nothing. Hardly any clouds, except a very few occasional low altitude stratus. Didn't last long. Airplanes still flew, normal as ever, though. SO?? Explain that?

Do you understand the concept of a fallacy, and argument from?



After 911, I have reason to distrust anything coming from our criminal government.


Irrelevant. At worst, the government was incompetent/dysfunctional, in not stopping the plot that was brewing before it reached fruition. Doesn't relate at all to contrails, though.....


edit on 27 February 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)


What the heck are you saying, specious argument? It was measurable:

"A team of climatologists presented their work Tuesday, showing that temperatures in the United States fluctuated by 1.2 degrees Celsius more when airplanes were grounded than when normal flight patterns prevailed. That is, planes in the sky dampen the variability between day and nighttime temperatures. More air travel, the researchers suggest, brings less meteorological difference between noon and midnight.

This research provides one of the strongest indicators that air travel itself changes our climate. "

www.wired.com...

We can duke out the 911 topic elsewhere, Weedwhacker. Even barnyard animals don't believe the incompetent\dysfunctional meme anymore. Thanks for helping me see the light about chemtrails; I'm happy to return the favor about 911.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Char-Lee
 


I don't trust the bastards either...but you can check to see if the conditions at altitude were right for persistent contrails for your day.

This says nothing about whether all that traffic was normal or not, only whether the conditions were right for persistence...if conditions precluded persistent contrails yet your sky was a checkerboard of trails, then you might have a case.

I live in Portland, so for you to check, just go to the below link and change the day and time to the date in question. 12Z indicates the early morning of the day you sighted the trails, while 00Z of the next day indicates the afternoon of the day you sighted it. eg. if you saw the patterns in the afternoon of Jan 24, you'd select 00Z from Jan 25...it's based on Greenwich Mean Time, and they're a half day a. of us in the Pac NW.

When you select your date and time criteria, click the map closest to your location to pull up the report. You'll see altitudes, corresponding pressures, temperatures and relative humidity, etc.

weather.uwyo.edu...

Then take your report and compare it to the Appleman chart at the below link..grab the pressure and temperatures at various altitudes and see whether persistence can be predicted. This is a student form...I found that reading the instructions was very informative too.

asd-www.larc.nasa.gov...

Now, as far as volume of traffic...when I've been suspicious in the past it has appeared that the suspicious flights don't follow normally observed flight patterns, but this could just be my suspicious nature making stuff up, so I need to check that too. When I look at my photos, the contrails go north\south..pretty much the flight paths between Seattle and LA. But to be sure, I'm sure someone on this thread can direct us both to a site that will give us the history of scheduled, registered flight-paths which could then be calculated and compared to the Appleman chart.

Using the above method I've been able to assuage some of my suspicions by proving that each photo I've scrutinized was taken when the conditions were optimal at the altitudes where commercial aircraft normally travel. As much as I hate to admit it, I don't have a leg to stand on to suspect anything untoward is occurring, however it is disturbing to see how air traffic can mess up a perfectly good day.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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Hello ATS, I have been a reader here for a long time but this is my first post. ATS is now plus 1!

I highly suspect that Chemtrailing is real and has been going on a long time and I do think that's one reason for the big order for new tankers. But I do not believe the government is trying to poison us. I do believe that we will all soon know that life on the surface has become dangerous and about to become much more so. When this has reached mass consciousness, people will want to know how long the government has known this. A long time. Then they will want to know what, if anything, the government has done to try to protect us. If the evidence is that the government did nothing, we will all cry foul, say that this is the proof that the government wants us all dead.

Then we will want to know why they did not do something with a scientific basis that might create a shield for us. Even if it doesn't work, even if there are some risks. Like Chemtrailing. When treatment is needed and it involves methods not tried before, a risk vs. benefit analysis is done before making a final decision. Perhaps the science says that the stew of toxic chemicals sprayed above dissipates significantly before reaching the ground and that over the time period required to create the shield, toxic effects on the ground will be minimal. Cause asthma in children? Maybe. But we can treat that, we can't help a dead child killed by cosmic radiation.

Before it's over, we may all find ourselves praying to God that the Chemtrailing works and very thankful it was done. Surely at this moment, someone smells a government shill in this, a dis-info op. Plus 1 is not!

But I am something else. Outside of my job to provide psychotherapy to children and families, I am a trained First Responder whose real name is on the FEMA national database of emergency response personnel. I got myself onto that list because I really care about the people of my small town and county and if they are in trouble, I will be there to help in any way I can. We are trained in First Aid and CPR, how the national command structure will work and how to access the national stockpiles.

We are not trained in how to implement martial law or herd our fellow citizens into FEMA camps. Plus 1 is a freedom fighter! If there was any order that smelled of injustice toward my fellow Americans, I would be out of there instantly, to join the ranks of resistance. So would many other first responders, military personnel, law enforcement officers and so on.

I do believe there are many things that we have not been told. I believe that there are some very sinister global conspiracies taking place. I believe we are entering the most dangerous and potentially catastrophic series of events we have known in our recorded history and that humanity is in great peril, along with all the other forms of life here and the earth itself.

But I don't believe our world governments are trying to kill us with Chemtrails and I don't believe that the government is going to herd us all into FEMA camps. I wrote this to share what I do believe and offer some balance to this debate, it may all be untrue, but I hope my opinions are valuable, I am certainly treasuring all of yours!

Love to all of you, Plus 1.



posted on Feb, 27 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by Plus1
 


Well, welcome, and an excellent, thoughtful first post. But, as an EMT surely you will become more acquainted with the actual science of contrails, and aviation and meteorology, I hope soon? Because:


Perhaps the science says that the stew of toxic chemicals sprayed above dissipates significantly before reaching the ground ...


Is really just fantasy. In terms of, any "stew" being intentionally "sprayed".

Use some time to do some math, calculate the surface area of the Earth. Learn about the reality of airplanes' operation, their limitations...and consider the sheer daunting size and scope that would be required of such a (non-existent) "program"!

Along with the fact that it isn't happening, and there aren't any "fleet" of airplanes devoted to (what isn't happening), there also simply wouldn't be enough pilots, either. The man-hours required, AND to comply with duty time limits, and mandatory rest requirements....is simply unmanageable. Further, there are no ground-based locations, facilities, activities that would be needed in order to support such "projects".

NO, it's not in the fuel (has been covered numerous times, you will no doubt see why that isn't feasible, as you read various threads here).

Finally....as is often the case, many "ground pounders" ('landlubbers'??) focus too much on their little few square miles, their locality of residence....and fail to grasp the larger global view and perspective. Like, this; take a look at the way air traffic is heavily concentrated....in areas where people wish to travel, and much less, elsewhere. Such is the modern air transport system, and it is merely TAHT causing the contrials:






edit on 27 February 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



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