Is ATS Supporting Ignorance Concerning Chemtrails? I think so.

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posted on May, 26 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


so basically you won't comment because you can't argue with what is said and to cover that fact you do the usual attack the source of the information as you have with any source of information that our side have brought to the table perhaps there are items you are not allowed to comment on personally i use the same premise you used there whenever i read one of your posts.


Yes, we can.

Notice that one part of it talks about airliners having "canisters", and then in another paragraph, its about how its in the fuel?

If it was in the fuel, it would not just be making trails during only when the conditions would be favorable for it, and then aircraft flown for passenger transport dont just have all these empty space to stick random containers around in
edit on 26-5-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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- If ATS can ban ANW from being linked then can we ban "contrailscience.com" from being linked? As that is the most ludicrous website concerning Contrails/Chemtrails. Full of half truths & the domain goes through a private proxy making you unable to find the owner of the site. (yes I know the "about" tab on the site claims to give the owners name and etc..)

You mention Contrail Science. So you know Mick West aka Unicus runs the website along with website metabunk. (If thats his real name!!) I agree with what you say and Ive had unicus trying to debunk what I say about Chemtrails. He is a shill because how can a trainee pilot spend so much time creating these websites and spend so much time trying to debunk chemtrails. I believe Francis Mangels, a professional soil conservationist of 35 years, over what a trainee pilot would say on the subject. Who's the best person to hire to debunk chemtrails? Someone who works in Avionics, which he doesnt mind you knowing because he can fool you into thinking he would know best. He also has a guide on debunking!!

I mean what is the point of a debunker? Realy, no sane person would do this, if they thought it was rubbish then just ignore it and dont spend so much time trying to change peoples minds. No debunker can make a truth seeker change their minds. Chemmies want to spread the truth so more people are aware. Truth seekers are good people who will not lie down and let them do this to us!! Chemtrail debunkers are shills and are being paid to debunk, they always say show us your proof!! Theres a lot of chemtrail debunkers on ATS.

There are too many people who are aware of chemtrails and are suffering with ill effects, too many people see many lines in the sky on a warm clear sunny day. There have been tests on water and soil on Mount Shasta on the film what are they spraying? The geo-engineers on the video who admit spraying stuff on us. There has been an ex government employee on you tube who tells us the airport its shipped in to, its been on the news a lot, celebs talk about it and even I noticed some kids on you tube have even made a song about chemtrails!


You usually see the criss cross lines, like a marker point in the sky, I see a lot of 6 point markers in the sky, so 3 flight paths intercept at the same point in the sky. You can roughly work out by the width of the chemtrail, how long they have been up there and which flight path came first. I have photos to prove this but I dont know how to add pictures on here. If anyone could tell me, please do and Ill add them on. These flight paths do not match with the flight paths of commercial aeroplanes that fly over my location (which can easily be checked on flight path websites). It happens too often and everyone knows what a normal contrail looks like, chemtrails are too thick and white and no way would normal contrails stay in the sky all day spreading out, no ice particle could float up there for so long and not melt.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


1.why are they doing it?
Its to reduce the amount of uv radiation reaching the earth's surface.


the question presupposes that there is something being done in teh 1st place.

It has never been established that there IS anything "being done", therefore anything that askes "why" or "who" is necessarily begging the question of whether anything is being done.

therefore your question is completely meaningless until you can establish that ther is somethnig being done.


2.how can it be a worldwide project?


Ditto.

Had you phrased this "How COULD it be a worldwide project?" then there could be reasonable speculative discussion.

but you chose not to.



3.how can such a project be implemented {ie no. of planes worldwide}

No. Several types of craft are used. Commercial jet airliners are used and they are not diverted from their flight paths to do so. How the canisters and the spraying is done on this kind of craft is unknown to me exactly. I do have my suspicions.


Exactly - he has no evidence only suspicions. Unless you are going to provide some checkable evidence ther is nothing here that can be examined.


All those who know are expected to remain silent.


Well I would have to know, and no-one has ever told me to be silent - and I have never seen anything that supports his ropositions.

Let me say this again - his idea of tanks, etc on airliners could not POSSIBLY exist without me knowing about it - and millions of other mechanics worldwide.

And I have never seen anything that remotely supports his idea.


All of those who suspect are either faced with trying to prove the virtually unprovable


completely false from his own article - he has described the existence of polymers, of large qwuantities of materials on board airliners - these have to be made, transported, held on board aircraft in some way - this is all easily proveable.


i would like you to prove to me why the answers given are scientifically wrong after all there are 4 answers to questions often asked of us chemmies


they aren't "scientifically wrong" because they are not science - they are hearsay. I have given such answers as to why they are wrong as hearsay that I am able to give.

If you want scientific proof for or against somethign then come up with some science in the first place.



Ah I see another serial debunker of chemtrails... Aloysius the Gaul


In a post on 25th May 2011 at 5.32pm, He replies ....
' Let me say this again - his idea of tanks, etc on airliners could not POSSIBLY exist without me knowing about it - and millions of other mechanics worldwide.

And I have never seen anything that remotely supports his idea'


Someone else who works in Avionics, who of course knows best!!



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


so basically you won't comment because you can't argue with what is said and to cover that fact you do the usual attack the source of the information as you have with any source of information that our side have brought to the table perhaps there are items you are not allowed to comment on personally i use the same premise you used there whenever i read one of your posts.


Yes, we can.

Notice that one part of it talks about airliners having "canisters", and then in another paragraph, its about how its in the fuel?

If it was in the fuel, it would not just be making trails during only when the conditions would be favorable for it, and then aircraft flown for passenger transport dont just have all these empty space to stick random containers around in
edit on 26-5-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)


Yes your another one Firepilot! Do you work in Avionics too??



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by spooky1973
- If ATS can ban ANW from being linked then can we ban "contrailscience.com" from being linked? As that is the most ludicrous website concerning Contrails/Chemtrails. Full of half truths


Well then you shuld be able to point them out and show their inadequacies, shouldn't you......so why haven't yuo??




& the domain goes through a private proxy making you unable to find the owner of the site. (yes I know the "about" tab on the site claims to give the owners name and etc..)


It's not a proxy tho - it's a company that provides website - jsut like hundreds of thousands of such companies world wide.

Do you really think that using a hsting site is evidence of using a false name???

BTW why are you using an anonymous name on here if you're so hot on knowing who everyone is??!!




You mention Contrail Science. So you know Mick West aka Unicus runs the website along with website metabunk. (If thats his real name!!)


And do you have any actual evidende that it is not? Have tried, for example, to look him up in hte telephone directory, or the FAA's Airman Certificate database?

Or are you jsut slinging mud because yuo can't actually find any credible information to post??


I agree with what you say and Ive had unicus trying to debunk what I say about Chemtrails. He is a shill because how can a trainee pilot spend so much time creating these websites and spend so much time trying to debunk chemtrails.


why wouldn't he have enough time?? How much time do you think it takes to train as a pilot as a hobby??



I believe Francis Mangels, a professional soil conservationist of 35 years, over what a trainee pilot would say on the subject. Who's the best person to hire to debunk chemtrails? Someone who works in Avionics, which he doesnt mind you knowing because he can fool you into thinking he would know best. He also has a guide on debunking!!


Why would avionics be the best profession?? I would have thought someone with atmospheric qualifications would be better - avionics is pretty much completely unrelated to engine exhaust!

And while avionics mechanics may work with weather radar and pitot/static system and the like, that isn't something I'd see as making them an authority on the atmosphere!


I mean what is the point of a debunker? Realy, no sane person would do this, if they thought it was rubbish then just ignore it and dont spend so much time trying to change peoples minds.


well there's several reasons:

1/ "we" just hate stupidity
2/ I, personally, am apparently part of this conspiracy, since I, personally, have worked on aircraft Ithat I have seen leave persistent contrails. These aircraft have not had any strange systems fitted, they have not used different fuel from any other aircraft, they weer not part of any conspiracy.

Therefore, for me debunking is self defence agaisnt slander.


No debunker can make a truth seeker change their minds.


no - but we can help chemtrail hoax believers realise thy have been scammed - and there's more and more such people realising it and getting angry about it all the time.



Chemmies want to spread the truth so more people are aware.


I haven't seen chemmies spread anything except bad science, disinformation, lies, unsupported assertions and mistakes.

And then people like you get all angry when the truth of all this is pointed out - so I don't think there's any truth in your asertion that chemmies are seeking to spread the truth at all.

In fact the evidence all around is exactly the opposite.


Truth seekers are good people who will not lie down and let them do this to us!!


I am sure plenty of chemmies are good people who have been sucked in by teh hoax.

the mere fact that you cannot even clearly identify what "this" is that "chemtrails" are "doing to us" is an obvious pointer to the nature of the delusion.


Chemtrail debunkers are shills and are being paid to debunk, they always say show us your proof!!


Heck even credible evidence would be good.

Like, for example, what is the evidence that chemtrila debunkers are being paid to debunk?


Theres a lot of chemtrail debunkers on ATS.


yes it has made it a lot easier for us



There are too many people who are aware of chemtrails and are suffering with ill effects, too many people see many lines in the sky on a warm clear sunny day. There have been tests on water and soil on Mount Shasta on the film what are they spraying?


and the tests on the soil found the levels were jsut fine - a little low in aluminium if anything.

And in WITWATS the tests on soil were put forth as tests on water - an outright lie - and you tell us thsi is hte truth??


Tests on actual water from Mt Shasta found no aluminium at all



The geo-engineers on the video who admit spraying stuff on us.


Aer you talking about David Keith's bit in the video?

He is the only person I can think of you might be referring to as a "geo-engineer", and he said no such thing at all. He said that spreading platelets in the upper atmosphere could be a method combat global warming - he thinks it would be cheap and effective.

He said nothing at all about it being done now, let alone for the last 15 years!!

Didn't you say you aer interested in hte truth?? So why would you make such an obvious mistake that anyone can see???



There has been an ex government employee on you tube who tells us the airport its shipped in to,


I haven't seen this - can you link to it please??


its been on the news a lot, celebs talk about it and even I noticed some kids on you tube have even made a song about chemtrails!


yep - none of which is evidence at all.



You usually see the criss cross lines, like a marker point in the sky, I see a lot of 6 point markers in the sky, so 3 flight paths intercept at the same point in the sky. You can roughly work out by the width of the chemtrail, how long they have been up there and which flight path came first. I have photos to prove this but I dont know how to add pictures on here. If anyone could tell me, please do and Ill add them on.


Go to the tools menu, then pictures - upload the picture, then go to it and copy the line of text that says "link to embed in ATS" or something like that - post that text between the image tabs & voila!

To see how it looks quote someones message with a picture in it & see how it works.



These flight paths do not match with the flight paths of commercial aeroplanes that fly over my location (which can easily be checked on flight path websites).


Sure you can - here's one for the USA - www.flightradar24.com...

And for all those that you can't see & want to get proof of all thsoe unmarked flights - here's the sort or pictures you can get if you're prepared to spend a little money - www.skystef.be... - this guy's telescope retails for US$600 in hte USA - a slightly smaller 8" version for $400 - so it's not all that expensive.

with the 10" scope he can get good h\photos from over 200km slant range!!



It happens too often and everyone knows what a normal contrail looks like, chemtrails are too thick and white and no way would normal contrails stay in the sky all day spreading out, no ice particle could float up there for so long and not melt.


ROFL - no ice particle could stay up there and not melt?? At betwen -30 and -40 deg C they won't melt??

Sorry dude - this last sentence of your is pretty bad.....



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by spooky1973
Ah I see another serial debunker of chemtrails... Aloysius the Gaul


In a post on 25th May 2011 at 5.32pm, He replies ....
' Let me say this again - his idea of tanks, etc on airliners could not POSSIBLY exist without me knowing about it - and millions of other mechanics worldwide.

And I have never seen anything that remotely supports his idea'


Someone else who works in Avionics, who of course knows best!!


no I don't work in avionics - I was an engine and airframe mechanic - not an avionics one - avionics is instruments, radio and electrical.

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you!!


And I know exactly what I have worked on and seen - I have crawled through aircraft fuel tanks, overhauled fuel pumps and burners, also watermethanol systems particularly injection units and metering valves (by way of knowing about something that WAS added to aircraft combustion....), planned maintenance and performed quality assurance on multiple types of airliners, for coming up to 40 years (I started an apprenticeship in 1976).

And I have never seen anything in that time that would be remotely indicative of a conspiracy to "spray" anything. Are you saying I did see something along those lines?? If so what was it????


If you have evidence otherwise how about you actually present the evidence, instead of indulging in all these ad hominem attacks?? All they really tell us is that you don't know much about aviation or the atmosphere!!

Ice will melt at -40 degrees....that's the best one yet....
edit on 17-8-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

And I know exactly what I have worked on and seen - I have crawled through aircraft fuel tanks, overhauled fuel pumps and burners, also watermethanol systems particularly injection units and metering valves (by way of knowing about something that WAS added to aircraft combustion....), planned maintenance and performed quality assurance on multiple types of airliners, for coming up to 40 years (I started an apprenticeship in 1976).


You don't actually expect a lifetime of experience to change their minds, do you? lol

I loved that the crashed Omega Air tanker the other day, instantly became a "secret chem-trail plane". lol



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by dpd11
 


No of course not - ther's more than just 1 lifetime of work gone into atmospheric sciences to create a vast amount of verifiable data - and it's all ignored by the hoax believers.

but I do insist in telling my story every time someone asks "why do you debunk?"!

Of course if chemmies WERE interested in the truth they would study hte atmosphere and realised it's all nonsense long ago and we woldnt' be having this conversation!

The Omega tanker thread was good work!



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by spooky1973
 





I mean what is the point of a debunker? Realy, no sane person would do this, if they thought it was rubbish then just ignore it and dont spend so much time trying to change peoples minds. No debunker can make a truth seeker change their minds. Chemmies want to spread the truth so more people are aware. Truth seekers are good people who will not lie down and let them do this to us!! Chemtrail debunkers are shills and are being paid to debunk, they always say show us your proof!! Theres a lot of chemtrail debunkers on ATS.


The point of a debunker? Seriously? Let me ask you this, would you rather have someone challenging the beliefs that you hold so dear or would you rather continue living in your fairy tale world where no one ever dissents and all agree with this hoax? If you really think a debunker cannot make a 'truth seeker' change their mind than you probably do not care about the truth. However, what you do care about is the intrigue of this conspiracy. You like to feel inside that you are uncovering some deep dark secret while fighting the power, viva la revolucion, right?

The first thing a truth seeker should do in a discussion is realize their own fallibility. That is something that many who cling so tightly to the 'chemtrail' faith cannot fathom. They can't imagine that they are wrong about contrails and the science behind them. Hell, the majority of them can't even state what causes contrails or how they think they can tell the difference between a plain old everyday contrail and their ominous air poisoning 'chemtrails'.

'Chemmies' are not spreading the truth. They are spreading a hoax and relying on the ignorance of others to become indoctrinated in this nonsense and in turn validate their own beliefs. If enough people believe than it must be true, right? They can never consider the fact that they might be wasting their time and distracting others from issues that are real and truly matter. The most laughable part about 'chemmies' is they think that they actually have some form of evidence. If 'chemtrails' were real they should be able to be verified scientifically, correct? Why haven't they? Why does the 'chemtrail' conspiracy rest on nothing but speculation, misunderstanding of science, misunderstanding of the scientific method, anecdotal evidence, and thoroughly debunked websites and movies? If you are a truth seeke' get out there and find some evidence.

There are proven tools for finding the truth of matters. Tools such as science, logic, and argumentation. My suggestion to you, if you really care about the truth, is pick up a book on one of these subjects and learn the priniples of these valuable tools. You could start with this website Rational Discussion

One more thing. They always say show us your proof because evidence is what matters when seeking the truth. Evidence, not speculation, intrigue, fairness, or emotions.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by dpd11
 


No of course not - ther's more than just 1 lifetime of work gone into atmospheric sciences to create a vast amount of verifiable data - and it's all ignored by the hoax believers.

but I do insist in telling my story every time someone asks "why do you debunk?"!

Of course if chemmies WERE interested in the truth they would study hte atmosphere and realised it's all nonsense long ago and we woldnt' be having this conversation!

The Omega tanker thread was good work!


I actually know a guy who's flown with them. He got a big kick out of the 'chem plane' thing. They were taking off for an evening of night ops off the coast, with one of the carrier groups... So they were full of fuel. Just glad nobody got killed. If you want to drive people nuts though, just show them the Flight Aware track for one of the NASA SOFIA flights. lol





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