i got arrested.. for a belt buckle.

Youy still haven't answered my question from page 1 (i think or page 2) I'll ask again Did the Brass Knuckles Fit your hand? Most of the belt buckle types you are talking about are small and won't fit your hand. If it fits your hand, then you had a weapon mate. But you won't answer me hey. Also was the Buckle on a belt ? as I find it hard to believe you had a whole belt in your pocket. You won't answer that one either will you.

I've been arrested for the same thing in the UK after I was attacked by a group of guys and it was when one of them grabbed me and I got my buckle of on my hand that they then ran away. But they then went to the police who arrested me for possession of an offensive weapon. I was cautioned and let go so it was no where near as bad as what you're being charged with. They are illegal tho, I had to get mine from France.

Good luck tho I hope it works out for you

Originally posted by lastrebel
The crazy thing about the law there....

I sell Knives, swords, etc over the internet and I cant send switchblades, brass knuckles, etc there......but a Viking Battle Ax is fine.................LOL

I had to log in just to say that's the funniest thing I've read in a while.. a viking battle axe lmao

the law is so messed up

reply to post by clintdelicious


i still don't get why people want to own such things.in my opinion a world without this crap would be better. and I really do not understand why people who see themselves as citizens of god given and peaceful country own and use guns.
i think you call that double standards

cryin about a "military-industrial complex" and "fake wars" and criminal "illegals" is kinda silly when I'm a paranoid gun owner.

Originally posted by Slipdig1
Youy still haven't answered my question from page 1 (i think or page 2) I'll ask again Did the Brass Knuckles Fit your hand? Most of the belt buckle types you are talking about are small and won't fit your hand. If it fits your hand, then you had a weapon mate. But you won't answer me hey. Also was the Buckle on a belt ? as I find it hard to believe you had a whole belt in your pocket. You won't answer that one either will you.

im sure the brass knuckles would have fit just as well on my hand as it would yours. there was no reason for my vehicle, or myself, to be searched in the first place.

reply to post by tweakedvisions

A traffic stop is considered a seizure for purposes for the Fourth Amendment. For the stop itself to be a lawful seizure, the officer must have either a valid warrant or probable cause to believe that a law has been violated (observed violations of traffic laws are sufficient). According to Whren v. United States, so long as an officer's belief of a traffic law violation is reasonable, the officer has probable cause to pull the car over even if he might have some other motive for the traffic stop. A traffic stop constitutes a seizure of all occupants of the car: both driver and passengers.

Source

"Probable cause" means that the officer must possess sufficiently trustworthy facts to believe that a crime has been committed. In some cases, an officer may need only a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity to conduct a limited search. Reasonable suspicion means that the officer has sufficient knowledge to believe that criminal activity is at hand. This level of knowledge is less than that of probable cause, so reasonable suspicion is usually used to justify a brief frisk in a public area or a traffic stop at roadside. To possess either probable cause or reasonable suspicion, an officer must be able to cite specific articulable facts to warrant the intrusion. Items related to suspected criminal activity found in a search may be taken, or seized, by the officer.

Source

Once you were pulled over, for a traffic stop, a cursory search of your person, for things like concealed weapons is legal.

~Heff

I have seen these buckles before, and almost bought one for myself except for the fact I would have had to ream the holes out a little so that my fingers would fit. If your buckle is the same as the one I almost bought, then it is also a pretty decent set of knucks. Even though you got the buckle as a present, why would you want to carry it around with you? I hate being hassled by cops as much as the next guy, and I've had my share of run-ins with jerks over the years (mainly because of my biker lifestyle), but in this case getting charged with a weapon is your own fault as far as I'm concerned, and all you have to whine about is perhaps, the cop's reason for pulling you over.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
reply to post by verylowfrequency

 

You missed the whole point of his post.

He is LEGALLY allowed to possess the marijuana he had. That would be like arresting someone who has pills yet are legally allowed to have them. The cop had an obvious chip on his shoulder and used the light and belt buckle as an excuse.

The brass knuckles is a belt buckle. I know many people with them and they are nothing like real brass knuckles, not even close. They are cheap and you can usually get one for about 10-20 bucks...heck even cheaper at the flea market.

That cop is a jerk. He was just fishing for something and he found it. Why brass knuckles are considered a felony is beyond me.

Try getting hit from someone using brass knuckles once and you would know why it's a felony. You can easily kill someone with one punch. Also the reason why the cop saw them as a weapon instead of a belt buckle is because he was carrying them in his back pocket not on a belt. A person carrying them like that is the same as any other weapon.

Well that really sucks...I do not believe that the buckle/knuckles should be a felony, but they are. Hell 30 years ago as a teenager I went to a Judas Priest concert in Massachusetts, and I had on about $500 dollars worth of spikes, both arms were covered and my belt had three rows of them. I was "detained" for the whole opening act, as they are considered a felony weapon in the state. I purchased them in Ma. and not one person ever said that they were a weapon!!! Live and learn...

The officer that got you obviously has a problem with the weed being "legal", and was just looking for something.
I just can't help thinking that if they were not in your POCKET he would have turned a blind eye to them. I am sure that before he searched you he asked if you had any weapons or Sharpe objects or hand-grenades on your person.

Cops DO NOT take lightly finding a weapon on a pat down, lucky you didn't get tased...
Chalk it up to cheap tuition in the school of hard knocks and hope that it's reduced to a misdemeanor!!!

Give this post a read: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cops always make me nervous, and I do my very best to obey the law. I don't speed, and I make complete stops. I don't do drugs or drink alcohol at all. Nevertheless, we all get pulled over from time to time. It happens.

Sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds like you really didn't know that the brass knuckles were illegal. Heck, I wouldn't have known, and I certainly wouldn't have ever imagined that they would be classified as a felony weapon.

The sad fact is this - you broke the law, knowingly or otherwise. It would have been nice if this cop had cut you some slack, but it doesn't always happen that way.

I got my first speeding ticket EVER a few years back, driving through Oklahoma (I'm from Texas). Apparently, the speed limit had changed, but I missed the sign. It would have been nice if the cop had given me a break, but he didn't have to; he chose to write me a ticket. That is his job. It stinks, but such is life.

In your situation, you couldn't have done anything differently. If an officer tells you to get out of your car, you have to comply. Also, the pat down does not qualify as a "warrantless search / seizure". Cops have the right to pat you down for their own safety.

What if you really were a bad guy and the second that this cop turned around you whipped your brass knuckles out and popped him in the head? Don't think it doesn't happen. Cops have reason to be skiddish.

Cheers,
Cody

reply to post by tweakedvisions

last weekend i went camping up in the mountains by my house.driving back that morning i got pulled over by a cop on a motorcycle. he told me that he was pulling me over not because i was speeding or breaking any laws, but because one of my headlights were out. even though it was a perfectly clear morning and the sun was shining bright.

If your lights were on , for whatever reason , and one of them was blown , then he had every right to pull you over for being in violation of California law .

he comes back to my car, sticks his head in the window and asks me "do you have a physicians note for the marijuana in your car?"

How did he know there was MJ in your car ? Did he smell it , or did he see it ? If it was visible for all the world to see , then you were flaunting it , regardless of a script or not . Just because you were legally authorized to possess it , does not mean that it is wise to display it . Most cops would find this "in yer face" type of behaviour to be offensive , regardless of the legality . You could just as well have had a handgun lying out in the open , with a permit to carry it , and been well within your rights . But guess what ? Openly displaying it in such a manner would have also gotten you out of the car , while the cop ascertained what was what . So , the issue of having an MJ permit is moot in this argument .

he instructs me to get out of the car and pats me down.

You were already in violation of the law by having a blown headlight . This is reason enough for him to instruct you to get out of the car . Once you are out of the car , it is standard-operating-procedure for any LEO to pat you down .

in my jacket pocket i had a brass knuckle belt buckle that i had gotten for a birthday present.

And I'm willing to wager that the date you were pulled over was not your birthday , I'll even go so far as to wager that it wasn't even within a week of your birthday . Am I correct ? And I'll also wager that the knucks were not still in the original package that you received them in . Nor were they attached to a belt . Were you wearing a belt at the time ? Was there a belt in your car that didn't have a buckle ? With all of this in mind , it is only fair to assume that you were not using the knucks as a belt buckle . What would you think , if you were in the cop's position ?

apparently in the state of california, that is a felony weapons charge.

And I get a sneaky suspicion that you knew this before you ever placed the knucks into your pocket .

i also am a thousand dollars in debt because of that.

A consequence that was incurred most likely due to you openly displaying MJ in your vehicle , while most likely knowingly carrying an illegal weapon . Nobody is at fault here , other than yourself .

i have court this wednesday so im sure ill be billed for all that too.

Probably .

even if it wasnt on a belt. i dont see how that can be classified as a felony

If you can put your fingers through the holes , it is a fully functional set of knucks . I could solder a clip to the handgrips of a 9mm handgun , so as to wear it as a belt buckle , but it would still be a handgun .

Bottom line , the cop got you dead-to-rights .

Best thing you can do , as others have suggested , is to go down and buy yourself one of them good-ol-boy lawyers and pay him what he quotes you , so he can go entertain the DA with drinks and 18-holes .

Sorry , that's just the way it works .

I hate to be a hater here, but I think the arrest and search is justified. Yes, weed is legal for you there, but is DUI/DWI ? With you driving, and being in possession, that is probable cause for search, and a field sobriety test. On the other hand, why were you driving with your lights on during the day? Most cars, even with daylights that stay on all the time, have an option to turn them off..... Next time dont carry your weed and your felony weapons at the same time. Even if weed is legal for you.

P.S. - I think the brass knuckles law is dumb.

reply to post by tweakedvisions


Sounds like that LEO had it in for you... however I would also have to say that I wouldn't be caught with brass knuckles of any kind, because I realize what a felony it is.

Ignorance of a law is no excuse, and having a pain in the butt LEO search you is no excuse either... he didn't plant it there, so you carry some of the burden on this.

reply to post by tweakedvisions
So you're smart emough to know the marijuana laws and the in and outs, but to dumb to know brass knuckles are illegal? America....what a country! You can be a total dumb# and then run to a forum to complain about it.

Most importantly though, did you get your weed back??

Originally posted by Endure
Most importantly though, did you get your weed back??

no i did not get it back. it was held as 'evidence' so i have to wait a year. i wasnt listening to the cops explanation as to why that was the case because i was busy trying my best to keep my mouth shut. the last thing i would want is any more punishment for something i said out of anger.

reply to post by tweakedvisions


This sucks as i feel that the idea of brass knuckles being illegal is silly at best, it is however the "law of the land" so.....what can ya do?
I do however own a 22 belt buckle and it would be illegal in my pocket as well, but unloaded in full view is quite legal for the moment in Kalifornia.
The best question about these silly laws that is seldomly asked is, who was hurt / physically harmed?
If none then i think said "offenders" should just carry on about their business.
But this machine is like a casino and we all know the house rules are designed to make the house win and not the player.
I want a new shoe.
Best of luck in court, i hope your felonious "Weapon of mass destruction" does not take you down a costly path.

You need a lawyer who is well versed in federal and California state search and seizure law. In Washington, the charge would be dismissed becasue the discovery of the brass knuckles was the fruit of an illegal search. A blown headlight is a civil infraction equipment violation which by itself does not justify the level of search this officer conducted. California may be different.

reply to post by freedom12


How kind of you, adding in your psychological help.
I am sure he will take your chastizing and become a better person for it.
Personally i'd just like to offer some compassion and advice if i can.
I pray you do not treat all of your fellow man with such a disregard, as compassion is what will be needed soon if we are to survive as a species.
Now for the dumb part, there are lawyers that study and practice only 1 form of law, justice, marriage, real estate Etc. Would you think they were dumb for not knowing every law?
Don't be silly.

Originally posted by Hefficide
My confusion is this:

You were in possession of a concealed weapon, admittedly so. All the rest is justification and rationalization on your part in my opinion.

Just the fact that you refer to these brass knuckles as a "belt buckle" shows that you have knowledge of the fact that they are illegal. You are not defending yourself by saying "I didn't know they were illegal.". You are trying to play a legality game by referring to them as a belt buckle that just happens to be physical identical to brass knuckles and is fully functional as such.

Oh, and this "belt buckle" just happened to be in your pocket and NOT on your belt. But it wasn't a concealed weapon... It was a concealed belt buckle.

All other aspects of this are just a smoke screen to avoid admitting to one fact: You broke the law, knowingly and on purpose. You carried a concealed weapon on purpose.

~Heff

edit on 2/22/11 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)

Does anyone know if this is a crime of strict liability? i.e. you are guilty of it by virtue of you carrying said weapon in your trousers? Unfortunately, ignorance of the law will not excuse again though, get a lawyer for god's sake!