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China launches new type of sub, American intelligence "suprised"

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posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
I don't have a link right off hand, but the japanese has the largest fleet of P3 anti-sub planes simply because china has the most number of subs in the world and japan does regard china as a main threat. Oh BTW, US is not automatically No. 1 in every field.


Ummmmm According to the 2004 AWST Aerospace Source Book Japans Inventory of P-3's are as follows

P-3C's 100
EP-3C's 4
UP-3C 1

The US Has:
NP-3C 1
NP-3D 11
P-3B 2
P-3C 177

But mere numbers do not make you an effective ASW force. Also, the most effective ASW platform is the SSN's that will saturate the area anyway with 688I's and The newer Seawolf subs.

Thanks for the article on the sub surfacing. As we say in the medical field "S%$^ Happens". Also, if tension were higher, Im sure they would have more assests out keeping an eye on things.

The P-3 was a great plane. I grew up in the SF bay area, and Moffet Field was a major center for training. For most of my childhood there wer always P-3 in the Air circling the field doing touch and go landings. The new MMA will be a great replacement for it though....




posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by xbin
Till now most effective way to handle sub threat is still using sub vs sub.
so it is LA sub's mission to clear the route for carrier.

But possible scenrio will be LA sub face a group of diesel subs, it is like
a tiger face a group wolves, hard to bet which one will win last.


Xbin, your analogy may be correct, buts its like Pride of Lions facing a pack of Wolves. i doubt that there will just a few 688's floating around.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
The P-3 was a great plane. I grew up in the SF bay area, and Moffet Field was a major center for training. For most of my childhood there wer always P-3 in the Air circling the field doing touch and go landings. The new MMA will be a great replacement for it though....


Oh men, that is in Moutain View, I know there is a base there, but don't
know what they are doing.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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FredT you are right each carrier group has about 3 subs per group so its 21 subs Vs. 2-3 Chinese subs plus the US can always call more subs if it needs them but I doubt it.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 08:47 PM
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nuclear subs may win every time in a convenginal battle but not always in a unconventional battle.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 11:48 PM
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yeah, the US has more P3s, but they are scattered around the world while all japanese planes are around their little territory so the answer is obvious. But you are right, the US has more P3s.

Here is another link to P3.
www.naval-technology.com...

Your "shiiiit" happens argument isn't really good enough because you can simply dismiss anything you don't agree with as shiiit.

ciao



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
nuclear subs may win every time in a convenginal battle but not always in a unconventional battle.


Uhh...Devil unconventional warfare what are you talking about with subs the Chinese cant even detect our subs let alone them trying to fight in unconventional what are they going to do launch torpedoes at imaginary subs if they do that they are dead. And hawks minus our 21 subs there are still 56 left and they are not all around the world.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:44 AM
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Uhh...Devil unconventional warfare what are you talking about with subs the Chinese cant even detect our subs let alone them trying to fight in unconventional what are they going to do launch torpedoes at imaginary subs if they do that they are dead. And hawks minus our 21 subs there are still 56 left and they are not all around the world.


westpoint , how do you know they cant hear you ? you actually got proof of this? no is the answer. no one know whether or not US subs are undetectable. you can still hear a nuke's pumps sometimes its just real quiet but no where near as quiet as a diesel/battery operated sub.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 10:22 AM
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Westpoint likes to make things up the way he likes and seldomly ever provides any sources for backup. Empty rhetoric isn't really hard to come by, you know.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:23 AM
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Sure it may be a bit quieter but that doesn't mean the Chinese will be able to pick out where our subs are and sink them we have numbers and technology to make up for our SSN's being a bit louder plus in the cat and mouse games that go on under the sea the diesel/battery has to surface for a while every 2 weeks so the only thing the Chinese can do with their subs is a one way mission to try and sink a US SSN if they try and we use counter measures and they fail they will be sunk.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:29 AM
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oh, sure sure. You acutally have backup for what you say and have first-hand experinece with sub warfare?



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
oh, sure sure. You acutally have backup for what you say and have first-hand experinece with sub warfare?


Dude, if any of us had first hand experience with these systems, would we really be here discussing these systems in depth???? Doubtful unless we liked spending time in leavenworth.....



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 01:22 PM
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but at least we all try to find some backup for our arguments, like I did with the P3 and the sub surfacting incident. He never does and everything coming out from him is empty rhetoric and propaganda.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:28 PM
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The US having more subs than china and better tech also the US subs having countermeasures to confuse torpedoes is empty and false? If you think that you need some education on US nuclear subs



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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What people need to remember is that the Navy fights as a carrier group. Can these Chinese subs get close enough with helicopters with MAD gear all over the place, surface ships with towed arrays, and US subs? If the Chinese manage to fire off torpedos or missiles at a US carrier group, which if there was a war they could probably do they would be immediatly found and destroyed.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
The US having more subs than china and better tech also the US subs having countermeasures to confuse torpedoes is empty and false? If you think that you need some education on US nuclear subs


countermeasures dont always work, and thier a last ditch effort.
anyway whats to say china doesnt have a nuke sub?
it could be topsecret you know how easy it is to hide stuff there.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
countermeasures dont always work, and thier a last ditch effort.
anyway whats to say china doesnt have a nuke sub?
it could be topsecret you know how easy it is to hide stuff there.


Its not top secret. China has:

Type 92 Xia Class SSBM: 1
Type 09-1 Han Class : 5
Type 093: 1 in 2005

www.globalsecurity.org...

The Type 93 is expected to be in the same class as a Victor III



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
Your "shiiiit" happens argument isn't really good enough because you can simply dismiss anything you don't agree with as shiiit.


Im not dismissing anything. However, you have to look at things from all angles. Why did the sub surface? To let the Japanese know that they got in? Doubtfull, recall that the Russians got subs real close to the US during the cold war and the debate in the Military at the time was to let them know or not let them know that we knew that they were there? If China got in that far, why let the Japanes know they were penatrated???



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 07:19 PM
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They don't work like once in a million uses plus countermeasures are a good defense if you are caught by surprise and if china has nuclear subs then they would be as loud or louder then ours and we could track and hunt them down



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
They don't work like once in a million uses plus countermeasures are a good defense if you are caught by surprise and if china has nuclear subs then they would be as loud or louder then ours and we could track and hunt them down


dont think your subs are invinceable. cause they sure as hell are not,also counter measures wont stop a wire guided torpedo or the new versions of torpedo'.



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