Originally posted by Hawkssss
No one has perfected anything. In fact the japanese were considered to have the best ASW in the world, not the US. Yet, a few months back, a chinese sub surfaced very close to the Japanese space center undetected and this has sent a shock wave across western military world.
[edit on 16-7-2004 by Hawkssss]

Really did not see it in janes, nor in any other news services. Can you please post a link? Also, were are you getting your information on Japanese ASW? Please back up your claims on Japan's ascention to the top of the ASW pyramid. With SOSUS, SURTASS et al, I am skeptical of your claims

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Diesel they have to surface

This is already old story, AIP technology now can let the Sub charge battery
without surfacing, this actually greatly offset-ed the weakness of diesel
sub compare with the nuke sub.

one of the links did say that some diesel-electric subs are capable of carrying ballistic missiles.

Usually diesel sub is used in sea war, seldom any country use it for ground
attack (such mission is assigned to nuke sub). The only exception is Israel,
Israel improved their diesel subs bought from Germany to make it capable
of launching cruise missile. I don't think there is any sub can carry
ballistic missiles, diesel sub weight is limited and purely not worth to do
so.

The U.S. is pretty much number one in every field just because it has the money and resources to be so. Except training, Israel takes the cake on that one.

yes, this might be the case in many cases, like 95%, but not everything. In fact, the US uses many weaponries produced by other countrie. In fact, the russians are ahead of the US in many fields.

Originally posted by Hawkssss
yes, this might be the case in many cases, like 95%, but not everything. In fact, the US uses many weaponries produced by other countrie. In fact, the russians are ahead of the US in many fields.

US small arms are all pretty much foreign made, the big stuff is all Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

And which field are the Russians ahead of us in?

did you hear about the US buying some Russian cruise missiles? Russian air planes are definitely on par or better than US planes, except for the Raptor. Again if Pak-Fa comes out, this can change also. Also russian SAMS are tops..

BTW, Russian space program is also ahead of the US in many regards. Of course, overall no one can match the US.

The latest versions of the MiG-29 are not superior to the F-16. The latest versions of the Su-30 and it's varients are not superior to the F-18s but maybe equal to the F-15s.

Russian naval air is also dead...because it's Navy is dead...like it's space program...for now.

I'll give it to you on SAMs, they are good.

And I haven't heard of the US purchasing Russian technology for another else then testing

[edit on 17-7-2004 by Kozzy]

you are right, US did buy the missile for testing. Also, Russian Yakhund (spelling) cruise missile co-developed with India is more superior to anything the US has.

As for space program, they still have a permanent space station floating while your space ships are grounded.

Have to go.

Ciao

The topic of discussion in this thread is:
China launches new type of sub, American intelligence "suprised"

Try to stay on target, please. Chinese submarines developed apparently under the radar of Western intelligence.

Originally posted by Hawkssss
As for space program, they still have a permanent space station floating while your space ships are grounded.

uh... and that space station would be? mir burned up a long time ago, last time i checked there hadn't been any of the soyuz type (insert actual name in can't think of) stations in years, and the ISS is just that: the international space station.

back on topic now...

Originally posted by xbin
Usually diesel sub is used in sea war, seldom any country use it for ground
attack (such mission is assigned to nuke sub). The only exception is Israel,
Israel improved their diesel subs bought from Germany to make it capable
of launching cruise missile. I don't think there is any sub can carry
ballistic missiles, diesel sub weight is limited and purely not worth to do
so.

apparantly these chinese subs can carry cruise missiles as well. i thought that it said ballistic before. anyway though, with the stealth of these subs and with a good sized cruise missile it could pose a major threat couldn't it?

[edit on 7/17/2004 by cmdrkeenkid]

apparantly these chinese subs can carry cruise missiles as well. i thought that it said ballistic before. anyway though, with the stealth of these subs and with a good sized cruise missile it could pose a major threat couldn't it?

PLAN is always seeking to launch 3 kinds of missiles from Diesel Sub,
anit-sub toperdo, anti-ship missile and anti-air missile. I don't know how
far away can our anti-ship missile reach, but the new Kilo we bought
from Russia has the attack range of 250 kilometers. Anti-air missile is used
to pretect itself from the threat of P3 anit-sub plane. Also PLAN is very
interested in installing anti-radiation missile in the sub so that it can sit
deep in the sea but launch a sudden attack to enemy's AWACS.

I am surprised an expert like you never heard of this

I know our US friends know they are the best, but the problem is they
refuse to understand others. Sometimes Ignorance Can Be the Best
Brave-ness, so they just easily say "war", easily say "bomb" other.
Iraq war also reminds me Bush's ignorance and the brave-ness derived
from his ignorance.

Originally posted by Kozzy
The U.S. is pretty much number one in every field just because it has the money and resources to be so. Except training, Israel takes the cake on that one.

not in military training or tank warfare.

propley no threat
its made out of wood wiht it stuck togeather with blu tack bubble gum chewed and masking tape
depends what weapons its armed with

Its curious that this comes at a time when things in China's corner of the world. Is it possible that because US joins with war games by Taiwan
that this vessel was commissioned now. and what is the crew,weapons and technological complements. are we going to be screwed if it gets deployed against us does it have sister ships just like it that we dont know about yet

This has been blown out of per portion Chinas subs are no match for our sea wolf and Ohio class subs you are getting worried for nothing the US has this covered if the Chinese try attacking our carrier fleet they will be crushed so fast they wont know what hit them its not going to happen. We followed russian subs during the cold war everywhere they went w knew their location and we even went to their ports they still didn't know we were there and now all of a sudden china is a threat with this sub its BS. Also Ohio class subs can carry cruise missiles

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Also Ohio class subs can carry cruise missiles

Where did you hear that from?

They are currently modifying the first four of them to carry tomahawks and are being redesignated as SSGNs. They did not have the ability to carry them before, as that would be a waste.

Where do you get your information from?

west point BOTH sides done that during the cold war. if you didnt know.
also your sea wolf's wont be much good if it makes an ambush.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Kozzy
The U.S. is pretty much number one in every field just because it has the money and resources to be so. Except training, Israel takes the cake on that one.

not in military training or tank warfare.

Thanks for repeating what I said...thank you.

Tank warfare goes to the US because of the NTC and the size of the tank armies.