China launches new type of sub, American intelligence "suprised"

Following is a good analysis on Chinese MAD capability in the possible conflict in Taiwan strait.

www.wforum.com...

For those contemplating the intervention on Taiwan, better read the above article.

Modern Day: The US Navy forces start the the War on Iraq after giving Saddam a final 48 hours. US Tomahawk missiles strike targets in an attempt to cut the head off the iraqi command structure.

Bush gave Saddam 48 hours to get out of the country, its true. But Saddam was not going and this was an assassination attempt on Saddam not an attack on its counties Armed Forces. Under a US law its illegal unless in war but can you determine if we were at war or not ? This is very different form Pearl Harbor, the Japanese were lying and making the US think that they wanted to negotiate peace. While they just attacked deliberately without any warning and any notification. We gave Iraq 3 months warning and they knew that we had forces in Kuwait and they knew they had 48 hours to end the war.
Japan never gave us a warning never gave us a deadline and sneaked their faces in striking range totally opposite to what the US did.

Originally posted by WestPoint23


Bush gave Saddam 48 hours to get out of the country, its true. But Saddam was not going and this was an assassination attempt on Saddam not an attack on its counties Armed Forces. Under a US law its illegal unless in war but can you determine if we were at war or not ? This is very different form Pearl Harbor, the Japanese were lying and making the US think that they wanted to negotiate peace. While they just attacked deliberately without any warning and any notification. We gave Iraq 3 months warning and they knew that we had forces in Kuwait and they knew they had 48 hours to end the war.
Japan never gave us a warning never gave us a deadline and sneaked their faces in striking range totally opposite to what the US did.

still it was against US law.
and how can u tell the diffrence if tomohawks are landing next to you. also it doesnt need to hit troops,it just needs to hit near them or civiallains
also i dont think you can "sneak" a carrier battle group of the size that attacked u.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
[ This is very different form Pearl Harbor, the Japanese were lying and making the US think that they wanted to negotiate peace. While they just attacked deliberately without any warning and any notification.

- Pearl Harbour is a terrible example to give Westy.

The USA deliberately backed Japan further and further into a corner knowing full well the only likely outcome.

Then there's the fact that Japanese codes were being read.

We gave Iraq 3 months warning and they knew that we had forces in Kuwait and they knew they had 48 hours to end the war.

- 'You' gave Iraq all asorts of conflicting messages pre-gulf war mk1. In view of this, where's the surprise that Saddam didn't believe you/we were serious?

Japan never gave us a warning never gave us a deadline and sneaked their faces in striking range totally opposite to what the US did.

- Well, if you really believe that knowing now what we all know feel free. Personally I think it's an enormous crock.

Japan attacked, that's true. But IMO it was neither really a surprise nor really unprovoked.....and nor were the losses anything like as serious as originally made out.

The nearly 2500 US casualties tragically sustained that morning were IMO deliberately sacrificed to gain the US public's acceptance of entering WW2.

I agree the US should have come into WW2 but it was done in a terrible deceitful way IMO.

.....and to this day 'we' still keep on pulling these terrible 'stunts' and 'games' rather than just being straight about 'our' politics.

Originally posted by Hawkssss
did you hear about the US buying some Russian cruise missiles? Russian air planes are definitely on par or better than US planes, except for the Raptor. Again if Pak-Fa comes out, this can change also. Also russian SAMS are tops..

BTW, Russian space program is also ahead of the US in many regards. Of course, overall no one can match the US.

What a joke.

Is that why during any recent engagement the russian junk gets whooped.
'
Don't forget the F-35.

Maybe they bought those cruise missiles to test their capability.

Where does mother russia get the money to design and test all of these wonder weapons with an economy like theirs?

Until other nations have stealth aircraft speed and maneuverability is not worth much.

Where does mother russia get the money to design and test all of these wonder weapons with an economy like theirs?

Until other nations have stealth aircraft speed and maneuverability is not worth much.

...Oil? Gas?

..They do.

Sorry West Point ,

I am with SminkyPinky on this. THe Japanese got the technology to build carriers , submarines, and aircraft from the Americans and British. Remember the Japanese ..;prior to the influx of Americans and British had only a coastal maritime merchant fleet..not a blue water Navy.

The Japanese did all this at a time when most nations had no blue water Navy. AT best a coastal fleet if that. At a time when most nations could not even afford a carrier..even a conventional one.

We built our own enemy in Japan...Germany too for that matter. It was American and British Industrys and banks which financed the birth of the Nazi government and German reconstruction.

See..."Wall Street and the Rise of Adolph Hitler" By Anthony Sutton

Also...'Wall Street and the Bolshivek Revolution' by same

Also "National Suicide Military Aid to the Soviet Union" by same.

These series of books explain the financing and technology transfers to these countrys to fuel thier war machines and politics.

This is still going on by the decendents of the same groups whos loyaltys are to their profits not to a country, nation, or peoples.

We knew full and well what the Japanese were capable of doing. Their Generals and Admirals visited our industrys and Military Schools.

We provoked the Japanese into war but not before they reniged on the loans granted to them to modernize by Western lending institutions. Reniging on the loans is what put them in a position where we decided to go to war against them. But it had to be made to look like the Japanese started it.

It is one thing to historically spit in the face of the United States. It is another thing enitrely ...to do this to a large commercial bank/banks. Remember ..if you spit in the face of a bank..you are spitting also in the face of a large insurance company... for they insure the loans.
Which do you think has more political clout...the banks/insurance companys or the US Government??
My moneys are on the banks and insurance companys.

Whats more ..find this view in a history book. It wont be there.

China will get into trouble if they renig on the loans...like Japan and Germany. But remember...someone else will bleed for this profit with thier finest blood. This is what the bulk of wars are about today...financial dealings gone bad. Not the reasons given in most of the history books.

Also suggest if you are intrested in what is happening today...look up

"Fourth Generation Warefare."

It is still financial dealings but with a different twist in how and why the wars are carried out.

History is not exactly as shoveled out to us for standard indoctrination. Nor on the history channel either. Lots of holes in their versions on the history channel.

That stuff about what SminkeyPinkey has stated about WW2 is just in the last 5 to 7 years been coming out on the history channel. It has been known in small circles since the late 1950s into the early 1970s by small groups of people in the USA but never let out publically or in outlets like the history channel. This is a more recent revelation to most of the public.

The key is in understanding that Japan has none of this technology after WW1 but quickly caught up and not on her own.

So who is feeding China with all this technology?? Think hard on this one. I dont believe the Chinese are stealing anything. I think they are being quietly fed this technology by political connections....ie...economic dealings.
Politics is economics....always.

The Chinese will have to start at the bottom of the technological ladder and work their way to the top. Good bet that any large leap is fueled by other nations technology. Question is..how did they get it?

Gotta shove off again. Long hours again tonight.
Thanks,
Orangetom