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China launches new type of sub, American intelligence "suprised"

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posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
WAR MONGERING!
frankly no offence to the GREAT US of A but you cant say anythng about warmongering!
this is a dispute between china and taiwan NOT THE USA they should keep thier noses out of it.


Exactly. US should stop supporting Taiwan Independence, and interfering the Internal affairs of China.




posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
Exactly. US should stop supporting Taiwan Independence, and interfering the Internal affairs of China.


Thats the whole point I think people are trying to make ZCheng, Taiwan and more importantly the people of Taiwan already feel that they are independant of China. hence It not an internal affair of China.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 11:00 AM
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nno but it IS an affair between china and taiwan not americas problem BUT if taiwan asked for thier help thats ok but frankly supplying them weapons to use as a political and military pawn against china is not right.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 12:17 PM
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YOu know what: NOt ALL PEOPLE OF TAIWAN WANT INDEPENDENCE!!!! 15% wants independece, 15% wants unification and the rest and the majority want status quo. And that is why Chen Shuibian has to play a fake assassination and temper with the votes to get reelected and that's why the vote trying to reduce Chinese missiles aimed at Taiwan is defeated by the majority of Taiwan residence.

So please at least try to understand the history of this issue before you sling out all the propaganda!

thanks



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
umm dude whats wrong wi comunisim?


What wrong with it? It does not work. Period. Show me an example? Right or wrong, you can never overcome human nature. Most (Note Most) people will not bother to spend the time to say become a doctor when you can say collect tolls for the same amount of money.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
YOu know what: NOt ALL PEOPLE OF TAIWAN WANT INDEPENDENCE!!!! 15% wants independece, 15% wants unification and the rest and the majority want status quo.


Hmmmm polls are really accurate when you are threatend with the destruction of your home. Take away all the chinese threats and you have to wonder what the polls would say. Really, just because we don't support YOUR point of view does not mean we are unaware of the issues



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by bigrain
It is ture that MAD. I know u have more nuclear missles than us. But what is the difference, you kill me 100 times and I kill u 1 time? We don't like to get a war with usa, but if u assist Taiwan, you'll know the result. If u are so confident with ur NMD, why not just launch a nuke attack against us now?

Theres a lot of reasons why were not already at war. The first reason of course is MAD. I know for sure you guys have enough nukes to get the job done. Second of all its not really our policy to start unprovoked wars unless the other country has lots of oil. Personally I don't really care if you guys take Taiwan. I think we have the right to sell arms and trade with them but there not worth military support. But I'm saying taking Taiwan will be extremly costly. Its not worth invading or defending really.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by FredT


What wrong with it? It does not work. Period. Show me an example? Right or wrong, you can never overcome human nature. Most (Note Most) people will not bother to spend the time to say become a doctor when you can say collect tolls for the same amount of money.


woh there buddy, your toll collecters earn as much as a doctor?
ok you must have too many doctors. or just a lousy health service.
comunism would work with a good group of people its the perfect idea for peace but it wouldnt work your right there but that doesnt mean its wrong or there is something wrong with it.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 01:10 PM
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YOu know what: NOt ALL PEOPLE OF TAIWAN WANT INDEPENDENCE!!!! 15% wants independece, 15% wants unification and the rest and the majority want status quo. And that is why Chen Shuibian has to play a fake assassination and temper with the votes to get reelected and that's why the vote trying to reduce Chinese missiles aimed at Taiwan is defeated by the majority of Taiwan residence.

So please at least try to understand the history of this issue before you sling out all the propaganda!

thanks



And you got any links for these polls or do you dream them up. Also the US is selling arms to Taiwan how is that meddling with Chinese affairs we have the right to sell any country arms so china can cry all it wants the US is not going to stop selling Taiwan arms because its not a violation of anything.

Have a nice day.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 03:11 PM
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@Cyberdude,

Yes, the US does have the right to trade and sell arms to Taiwan but since the US and almost all countries and the UN in the world recognize "one China" and recognize PRC as the sole sovereign government so by selling arms to Taiwan is in fact against your own national policy.

The reason the US hesitates to sell arms to Taiwan is because 1) pressure from China 2) fear that it escalate tension in West Pacific which is a vital part of the global economy and if it is destablized, US economy will suffer and the president in office will get the boot. 3) your own promise of the one-china policy



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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@westpoint,

So why doesn't the US sell anything and everything to Taiwan then; afterall, they are rich and has a lot of cash? You know why because those folks in Washington and New York are much more mature than you and they know WAR IS NOT THE FINAL SOLUTION.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 03:23 PM
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Perfect Communism is indeed a Utopia but is an impossible outcome in the real world.

Planners just dont have the cognative ability to manage resources on a national scale. Also the utility of the planners are imposed on the citizens.

Devilasp - "comunism would work with a good group of people"
no such thing as a good group

Such things as opportunism, shirking, assymetric information.

Were talking about the real world not some poorly constructed facet of your imagination.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 03:42 PM
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Conflict is inevitable - if China dont step up, it would be a sign of weakness.

I doubt such a "proud" country as China would sit back and choose not to exert power. Most countries have their problems, in China's case i feel they are "too proud", parading arrogance and over-confidence (evident in most of the 'up the Yuan' posters here - even quite condecending at times with accomapnied hehe's). The levels of which is remenisant of Japan pre-pearl habour. Their current military build up is a sure sign of their intentions. China are starting to impose power on their neighbours.

Progress through conflict - i want to see it kick off now rather than later



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Vanguard
Progress through conflict - i want to see it kick off now rather than later


What if the conflict will both US and China to stone age? When it comes to defend the core interest of China, all options are on the table.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 06:57 PM
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zcheng enough with your stone age thing china has 20 ICBM's and I doubt that nukes would be used in this war unless china is getting its arse beat really bad.


The reason the US hesitates to sell arms to Taiwan is because 1) pressure from China 2) fear that it escalate tension in West Pacific which is a vital part of the global economy and if it is destablized, US economy will suffer and the president in office will get the boot. 3) your own promise of the one-china policy


Uhh...hawks the US is selling arm to Taiwan so what hesitation are you talking about even though the chicoms are whining and crying about the US selling arms to Taiwan the US government has no plans to stop so I don't know what hesitation your talking about.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 07:09 PM
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lololol The most absurd thing I have so far heard on this forum: china has 20 ICBM.l1ol11o1l China had its first nuke in 1964 and just sent a man into space and completed our own GPS (I know not that great by US standards, but nevertheless our own GPS system) and you believe the propaganda that China only has 20 ICBMj .lol1o1l1ol

Oh boy, I think everyone should stop talking to this west point guy... he is hilarious.ll1o1l1o1l1o1l1l



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 07:12 PM
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Westpoint

yeah, so can you tell me what top of the line weapons the US has sold to Taiwan??? I believe Taiwan had to get the Mirages from France and its subs from europe too... The US is talking about selling some Kidd DDGS to Taiwan for years and it still has not materialized. Kid, can you please first do some research before you sling out your propaganda??/??? Your misinformation or lack of any relevent info wrt to China and Taiwan is really making this thread and this forum look bad. Sorry kid, but you have to learn the facts first.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
yeah, so can you tell me what top of the line weapons the US has sold to Taiwan???


I could not agree with you more. The US should sell Taiwan any and all weapons systems they want for defensive purposes:

Arleigh Burke Destroyers
PAC-3
M1A2 Abrams
MLRS Systems
F-16 Block 60
F-15E's
SSN's

For political reasons they have not as of yet, but with China becoming more and more beligerent, its only a matter of time.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 07:57 AM
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The most absurd thing I have so far heard on this forum: china has 20 ICBM.l1ol11o1l China had its first nuke in 1964 and just sent a man into space and completed our own GPS



Hawks I don't make up numbers those are the figures that are on prominent websites if you want to make up more numbers go ahead but im not going to speculate until I have credible proof china has more than 20.
Also even private companies sent a man to space its not that hard anymore. Your own GPS system? you have 3 satellite up there way to go now all you need is 24 more to catch up to the US



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 08:47 AM
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yeah i just had a quick check and found about 5 sites confirming what West Point Said -

"According to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists and the SIPRI Yearbook 1999, the size of the Chinese nuclear arsenal is about 400 warheads. The Bulletin estimates that 20 nuclear-armed missiles are deployed in the intercontinental role, and another 230 nuclear weapons on deployed (or can be deployed) on aircraft, missiles, and submarines with regional capabilities. The 150 remaining nuclear warheads are believed to be reserved for "tactical" uses (short-range missiles, low yield aircraft-dropped bombs, and possibly artillery shells or demolition munitions)

www.cdi.org...&f/database/nukearsenals.cfm#China



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