Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural?

Originally posted by scifi-dude
it´s 21 century slavery, things like the water that you drink, you should never ever have to pay for it, same thing with electricity, why pay for absolutely everthing that is invented, except the air? it is called CONTROL OVER THE POPULATION, IF YOU DO NOT THINK THE SAME WAY, THEN EXPLAIN THIS SO CALLED WORLD ECONOMIC CRISIS.. all because of our own ignorance.. plus now everthing costs more, if one opens his/her eyes they will see. it is un natural to get up at 8 am TO GO TO WORK, I´ll say it again TO GO TO WORK . for what?? almost 7 billion people get up at the same time, yet another day to do the same lame ars thing over and over and over... and this is "natural"? I think not

If anyone who is reading this thread and reads this post please go at 6 A.M. (in U.S.A) and stand/sit at a freeway overpass and spend a couple of hours there. Observe the traffic. Then do the same around 4 P.M. You will see many hours of behavior that we can witness in two places in the natural world. Those of ant and bee colonies. Although they are highly organized but their daily gyrations are the same day in and day out. This is what we have become. We have become a matrix, a collective. Only to serve the needs of a queen (Boss, Corporation, Government). You will see a multitude of polluting vehicles going in opposite directions in a frantic frenzy to get to "work". Every morning you will witness the occasional fool who wasn't paying attention and cause a car wreck. Then you have a back up of cars going back miles, and every one of those individuals is getting mad. Then they get to work distressed, and messes up everybody's day.

Just adding another observation...cheers.

Yes, having to work, in the sense that modern man understands it is TOTALLY UNNATURAL.

We have been rendered slaves to a machine that we didn't build or consent to and we were given no choice in the matter.

Those who can see it, see it. Those who can't are just too brainwashed by the system and have succumbed to a kind of 'Stockholm Syndrome' where they defend the abusive slavery system and even attack those who dare to talk of freedom.

But the good news is that more and more people are waking up every day to the shocking reality.

Work in itself is not unnatural..obviously we have to pull our own weight, provide for ourselves and family. Any able bodied person needs to contribute to society (positively) in one way or another.
But I think the problem is that the majority of jobs today are very tiring, unrewarding and downright damaging.
Another misconception is that a job is something that you leave the house, go into the corporate grind and then come home at the end of the day.
As an example, one day at the neighborhood park, a woman asked me what I did for a living. I told her I was a stay at home mom. She actually asked "You don't have a job??" I looked at her in disbelief. Raising your own children is about the most important job I can think of on this planet. I have never worked harder in my life then as a stay at home mom. From cooking to planning meals to doing all the grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning, fix-er-uppers, bills, etc. etc... I think I was actually less busy at my old job!
The thing is, I worked my ass off at "regular" jobs since I was 19 years old. Even before that age, we grew up in a single-mom family with very little to go around and definitely did not have the luxuries of sitting on our bums waiting for our mom to give us every new hot item that came out. I had a daughter at 17 (this was in 94) and when she was 2, I had to work. It stayed that way and I had my son 4 years ago, too. After all these years of degrading my health and exhausting myself to the core to meet the necessities of living, I was laid off from my long-term job last January. Initially I was terrified. But to my surprise, I have never felt more liberated. I was actually able to stay at home with my kids and discovered so much about them and myself I had never time for before. Sure, money has been tight and collecting unemployment not the easiest thing to do. I still have to look for jobs fulltime which have grown scarcer in this economy and in Southern California. I have been looking for a new job for a year now and despite a really strong resume and background, I rarely get even to the interview stage because there are lots more like me..
I think the whole point is, the entire system needs an overhaul. A lot of people are miserable in their jobs even when they have them and that is not a surprise, considering how you are basically devoting your entire being to a system that doesn't do much for your natural talents and drains your life energy. You are basically spending your life putting money in someone else's pocket. Let's face it..how many of us are actually "well off"? Very few. And the few that are..well, many times they got that way on the back of someone just like you.

Ok, I only read the first page of comments, but I just wanted to state my opinion on this subject.

It seems the root of the whole problem, to life's problems, to every single problem on this planet, is MONEY.
we work for money. We have to BUY food, shelter, clothing, materialistic things. We live and breathe money. Without those little pieces of paper, you're worthless. So, yes, work is most definitely unnatural in todays world. When you can take all of lifes essentials, and turn it into a piece of paper, you know there is something terrible wrong with this world.

When you look at starving countries, because all of their resources have been raped from them, to make a profit in a different country, by turning it into paper, you know there is something definitely wrong with this world.

When your car gets broken into, because there is 3 dollars in change in the dash board, so someone could buy themselves a sandwhich. You know there is something wrong with this world.

When you find yourself down and out, after having a bit of bad luck on an investment, and everyone around you, looks at you like you're scum of the earth because you are poor, you know there is something wrong with this world.

When you have to get up everyday, and go to work, working 8 hours day, doing a mundane job such as waiting tables, and you're stuggling to pay the rent and live healthily, every month, you know there is something wrong with this world.

When you pay your cell phone bill, and realize that you get charged for text messages, when on the internet, you can communicate for free anywhere in the world, using text, voice, and video, and having to pay for data packages at 10 dollars a GB, you know there is something wrong with this world.

And lastly, When you look back in history, you come across a man named NIKOLA TESLA. A man who invented a tower named WARDENCLYFFE TOWER, which was capable of supply WIRELESS electricity around the globe, and not only that, capable of sending radio, photos, and text messages wirelessly. Was funded by JP morgan, who suddendly realize that he would not be able to make money off such a thing, because everyone would be able to tap into it for free, without being metered. He pulled the funding and the tower was destroyed in 1917. JP morgan then went with thomas edision's wired electricity, where they could monitor each and every persons usage, and bill them accordingly. You know there is something wrong with this world.

If Tesla had won, the world could currently have free electricity for everyone, and OIL, would not be needed for many things we use it for today, as electric cars would be powered for free, 24/7.

When we live on a planet with finite resources, and we use them like they are infinite, being a wasteful, non caring society, out of touch with nature, claiming ignorance is bliss, you know there is something wrong with OUR world.

Deny Ignorance.

reply to post by Kratos40

Yeap, from monkey to a human, from human to an ant . Did you know that a total mass of all ants on the planet is not smaller than total mass of all humans?

Originally posted by Malcram
Yes, having to work, in the sense that modern man understands it is TOTALLY UNNATURAL.

We have been rendered slaves to a machine that we didn't build or consent to and we were given no choice in the matter.

Those who can see it, see it. Those who can't are just too brainwashed by the system and have succumbed to a kind of 'Stockholm Syndrome' where they defend the abusive slavery system and even attack those who dare to talk of freedom.

But the good news is that more and more people are waking up every day to the shocking reality.

That is the term I was struggling to look for. The "Stockholm Syndrome". We have become so "symPATHETIC" with our corporate and governmental captors that we don't know what is right and wrong anymore and we are brainwashed into believing their corporate nonsense such as Six Sigma training and other corporate training nonsense.

reply to post by GeminiSky


We have the technology for machines to work for us. We just don't use it because people are the machines.

You should check out the new Zeitgeist "moving forward" on Youtube.

This society is so backwards! As for me as a designer I only work 4 days a week and have 3 day weekends every week. Yeah i'm not the richest girl and I do live paycheck to paycheck. But the fact of the matter is that I have balance in my life. I have many days to myself instead of wasting them but exhuasting myself to make more money. I guess its all about your lifestyle and what works for you.

I believe that the dollar will soon collapse and things ARE going to change. So don't get attached to your job because once the wave of revolutions hits America what we know as work will be a thing of the past. Just trust that things are going to get better and nothing is permanent.

I never thought that this thread would receive so many responses.....I guess im not the only one who feels this way.

--GS

Originally posted by GeminiSky
I never thought that this thread would receive so many responses.....I guess im not the only one who feels this way.

--GS

A lot of us have seen the light recently. We are tired of this same ish! View the new Zeitgeist video and it pretty much addresses the emotions and wants of a lot of people. Especially here in the U.S.A. The whole SYSTEM is unbalanced. We as a people have to attack and repeal stupid petty laws that erode our freedoms and our income. Go personally to your representatives/ senators office and tell them to repeal the "stupid" laws or go home! Emailing them or calling them wont work. Go directly to their offices and overwhelm their staff.
Otherwise we will see another million man march upon the National lawn in D.C.in the following year. Seeing what the Egyptian people did gave me hope that we can turn the United States of America around.

I hope President Obama gets the NSA security brief about my displeasure of the status quo.

Originally posted by GeminiSky
I would like everyone on this thread to understand that by posting my OP, I am in no way looking for an excuse to be lazy and sit around the house all day playing video games. I am a hard worker and very dedicated to whatever it is im doing at the moment. It just feels that working most of the day is not how my life was meant to be lived.....

--GeminiSky

Those saying work is "unnatural" do not understand that life in and of itself is work. For example, it takes work to have any kind of relationship, even a bad one. It takes work to get showered and dressed and make coffee and eat. You could even say getting up out of bed is work. So work is natural, it's the attitude behind the work which can make it disastrous, or enjoyable.

I do want to say though, that in my experience, those who do not like to "work", are lazy people, and they are generally people who end up taking advantage of others willingness to try and have a meaningful life.

Understand I am not talking about those who find themselves in a form of employment they are not meant for, but I think everyone could find a type of employment they at least don't "hate".

Basically LIFE is work, goodness just breathing is "work" if you stop and start to break it all down.

By the way, playing video games is work. Think about how your hands and body feels after a jaunt of a few hours playing video games. Basically even "play" takes a lot of hard work. Ever had to get ready to go rafting? Ever had to get everything ready for a BBQ for your friends? Or how about getting ready to go out? That is work, like I said, it's the attitude behind the work which changes something from "work" to just what is needed to be done.

Harm None
Peace

The idea of working a menial job and participating in this corporate culture disgusts me. The individual's goal in our culture is to become as rich and successful as possible, no matter who you step on to get there. And the idea of participating in that just to make money is depressing.

I'm gonna be lame here and totally bring up Star Trek: In that world, the individual's goal is to improve themselves and improve humanity. Money isn't an issue, so people can do whatever they want with their lives: create art, write, learn, etc. Obviously that is a Utopian image, but damn it's a nice one.

As for whether human beings are supposed to work all their lives or not - We are. At least according to Genesis. And all religion aside, Genesis is basically just a collection of 'tales' explaining why the world is the way it is. The inevitability of working is addressed in Genesis after the fall. We were expelled from paradise for being ungrateful little sh*ts and part of our punishment was that we would have to work for everything. Of course, at the time it was written, or rather, at the time it was collected (since it wasn't exactly written in one sitting, or even one generation)... humans did have to work for everything: their food, shelter, defense, etc. And now that we live in this modern age, we don't have to work to get food or to have shelter or to be protected. So, if anything, it means that work isn't as essential for survival anymore. But I digress.

I know in my personal life, the idea of working a 9 to 5 repulses me. But I'm also aware of the inevitability of having to work. I've been putting it off with schooling - educating myself about things that I feel are relevant, rather than educating myself on a trade. Majoring in business or marketing or communications would have probably been the most practical thing, and would most likely help me make money after college. But that shouldn't be important. Improving your mind is what is important. And sitting in a class to learn about a subject that I have no interest in, despite the fact that I would need the knowledge to make money, would be torture. So I ended up majoring in philosophy and theology... because they are the most relevant to life. And at least I'm enjoying what I'm learning.

But, inevitably, I'll be graduating this year. And the need to work will be looming over my head.

Unless...

Grad school!

reply to post by GeminiSky


Is this a trick question so you can call me a 'Lazy Liberal'? LOL!
Seriously though,
I've read countless times that Hunter/Gatherer tribes actually work far less than the average person of an industrialized society. I think in America it is especially bad....not for the amount that you have to work, but I know so many of my friends that are completely trapped in the one Good Job they have ever had....the ones that gives them enough money to get by, and covers things like Health Care, for them and their family. They are TERRIFIED of losing it, because not only of their own health problems, but knowing that their kids are sick (or in some cases just always hurting themselves and getting broken legs and such LOL). So they end up trapped in something they hate just because they know they could never leave it without risking financial ruin. Its not like that in other countries, where you can do whatever you want (job wise I mean) and not have to worry about Health Care.

Work is not un-natural. Having a job is un-natural. There's a big difference, and the problem lies in our societal structure revolving around money. I second whoever recommended Zeitgeist: Moving Forward. Great doc. Do watch.

But there's good news. You don't have to work, or need to have a job. You need food, water and shelter. I'm getting ready to publish a book on this subject. A key point of the book is what I view our needs to be.
1) Survival Needs- Food, water, and protection from the elements
2) Relative Needs- Any comfort, luxury, or convenience that goes beyond survival needs. This is what our society focuses on and why we feel we need to make lots of money. This is how our society views success.
3) Integrity Needs- Defined by the individual. Usually just not doing what we will feel guilty for.
4) Legacy Needs- Also defined by the individual, what I believe to be the only way to achieve true success. For the poster on GLP, sounds like his legacy needs are walking a mountainside in Tibet, visiting a coffee shop in the Netherlands, and enjoying the natural beauty of New Zealand.

90% of the jobs out there contribute very little to society. Ironically, these jobs are usually the ones that pay the best. My advice- focus on what you truly value, cut out the crap you don't, and spend some time really determining what your legacy needs are. Good luck my friend, and good post.

reply to post by GeminiSky

It's natural to work, but it's not natural to not mostly enjoy it or not feel rewarded and self-satisfied as a result of it. Work is just an expression of a persons need to expand and learn and accomplish. It gives a feeling of self-worth. Work is really the wrong word. The right word is career or passion. We want to accomplish. If you're a slave, that's not natural. Work shouldn't make you feel like a slave. If it does, then by all means, quit and complain. But people without work will never be happy or accomplished. We can't exist without it. So after you quit the job that makes you feel like a slave, attempt to change or find something else. Maybe your place in life is in a union fighting for workers rights. If not, you're going to have to find something that works for you. There's a happy inbetween.

I live with my parents and am a failure by all accounts. I haven't worked for years. And I can tell you without any doubt that living without work won't make you happy. Furthermore, I spend most of my time figuring out how to occupy myself which usually revolves around programming or reading or surfing or playing a game where I do pretend work. All the while I want to make money somehow. In all cases, you may as well call it work it's just not as satisfying or effective at improving my self-image because I'm not making an income on what I do. Where there is no stress, the mind makes it. Where there is no work, the mind makes work. You can't live without it, I think. There's the need to always be busy whether you're unemployed or not simply because the mind wants stimulation. My presnet situation doesn't eanr me an income and thus leads to a lot of unhappiness. There's a lot of soul searching. I want to be a better person. I want fulfillment. We all do.

Work isn't the enemy. Slavery is, but sometimes a specific line of work can be too hard for one person and easy for another. This might lead to people misidentifying some kinds of work as too slavish or too brutal. Not everyone responds the same way to particular types of work. So be careful in labeling something as slavery. You really have to look at it from many different angles to determine whether it's exploiting people in a criminal manner or not before jumping to conclusions about it.

reply to post by GeminiSky


I feel that it is completely natural.

I could see in a sales position how you might feel this way..

But getting up and doing some sort of manual labor seems 100% natural to me. Of course I know this from periods of employment and un-employment. It feels terrible not working, like ones pride is removed..

reply to post by Amaterasu


You have to explain why it's not. I have. Statements alone are not proof.

Logic demands humanity be destroyed. We are a viral species. God hasn't done that. Also logic is a concept, not a thing. Logic governs the universe. But man's logic is not that logic.

No one has succeeded at life, seeing as no one has not died. Well technically if you want to go biblically literal, then about 3 people have succeeded at life. Enoch, Ezekiel, and Jesus. That's because they did not die/ die permanently.

Oh yes. The internet destroys the need for government. but people haven't realized that yet. Just wait.

I didn't read any comments, with that said, I've had a job since I was 16, I'm going to be 22 in a few days, and I quit my job last December. I saved up a bunch of money and I live with my parents, so it's a much more viable option. I've actually quit before, I ended up going back to work after a month. Work is nice for killing time, it makes you appreciate your free time a bit more, but when you're working you wish you had more free time. Also, unnatural is sort of a vague word, I would definitely say that our form of work is unnatural, people who have professions who love their jobs are a bit more natural, artists and musicians certainly have natural jobs. In a galactic society, we have free energy, extremely high tech robotics and AI, and we can basically create anything we want with our mind, so yes, going to work at a gas station is extremely unnatural. But if we're comparing things to a galactic society, most of our planet is unnatural, even the indigenous and stuff still deserve more of the ease which comes with advanced technology and fifth dimensional style abilities, like the gods of old. Here are some quotes I love, it's from Wiki's Buddhism Deva page:

From a human perspective, devas share the characteristic of being invisible to the physical human eye. The presence of a deva can be detected by those humans who have opened the divyacakṣus (Pāli: dibbacakkhu), an extrasensory power by which one can see beings from other planes. Their voices can also be heard by those who have cultivated a similar power of the ear. The term deva does not refer to a natural class of beings, but is defined anthropocentrically to include all those beings more powerful or more blissful than humans. It includes some very different types of being; these types can be ranked hierarchically. The lowest classes of these beings are closer in their nature to human beings than to the higher classes of deva. The devas fall into three classes depending upon which of the three dhātus, or "realms" of the universe they are born in...The devas of the Ārūpyadhātu have no physical form or location, and they dwell in meditation on formless subjects. They achieve this by attaining advanced meditational levels in another life. They do not interact with the rest of the universe. The devas of the Rūpadhātu have physical forms, but are sexless and passionless. They live in a large number of "heavens" or deva-worlds that rise, layer on layer, above the earth. The devas of the Kāmadhātu have physical forms similar to, but larger than, those of humans. They lead the same sort of lives that humans do, though they are longer-lived and generally more content; indeed sometimes they are immersed in pleasures. This is the realm that Māra has greatest influence over. The higher devas of the Kāmadhātu live in four heavens that float in the air, leaving them free from contact with the strife of the lower world. Humans are said to have originally had many of the powers of the devas: not requiring food, the ability to fly through the air, and shining by their own light. Over time they began to eat solid foods, their bodies became coarser and their powers disappeared.

To sum it all up:

A deva (देव Sanskrit and Pāli) in Buddhism is one of many different types of non-human beings who share the characteristics of being more powerful, longer-lived, and, in general, living more contentedly than the average human being.

I actually named one of the chapters of my site: Living More Contentedly Than the Average Human Being. But I don't think work in general is unnatural, it is a very important part of an evolving society, but no, taking movie ticket stubs doesn't exactly flow with the universe, but it's also completely perfect and appropriate at the same time, so you could still call it natural, since it's very much a part of the bigger plan. But at the same time, an advanced society meets it's own needs so easily, that everyone focuses more on bettering themselves and evolving, to be like all the great polymaths we've been blessed with. We're meant to be with our families and explore as many activities and hobbies as we like, we're not supposed to come home angry and tired, eat dinner, watch TV, go to bed, and start all over. But at the same time, this was the crap we were supposed to fall into, this is our 3rd dimensional reality at it's apex, preparing to destroy itself or take a quantum leap forward. We have to experience all of this material western crap that's been force fed on us, it's what makes us stand up and realize how terrible it is, it's just that we have a group of monsters who have been running this planet into the ground since we were created added to it. But if we were to naturally evolve, we most certainly would have been far far away from our current job situation, we discovered free energy almost a hundred years ago, that itself would have changed this current situation greatly.

reply to post by GeminiSky


Yes if u went out in the boonies and built a house, farm etc...wanted to be away from everything u cant. You would get a little visit from the IRS wanting their money for living on THIER (as they claim) land, just about every single piece of land is owned by governments or billionaires. We all work to make a living but to also make our country better if no one barely worked our country would be lookin like india with beat up shacks but on that note i havent seen anything great come out of this country (usa) in the last 10 years its like were stuck with wars/economy crisis' ...doesnt seem like america is moving forward in the world as we used to

The human mind, uncultivated, deals with its own fragmented perception of existence by posing as (and thereby draining) the true Self, thereby maintaining its false identity, and consequently deals with the continued drain by seeking external things in an effort to re-validate itself. Take a moment of absolute silence and absolute stillness. Cultivate it over and over, and begin to see the wider picture emerging one tiny bit at a time, along with its emerging possibilities. There's no going back, ever.

It is those possibilities that I propose will help return us (or at least those who resonate) to what is natural, in life and work, even if the System will not change.

It's a complex question you rise, and the answers more so. But I think most people would agree that most work would probably feel like it's meaningless. As long as one feel that they're serving a purpose, work can be pretty rewarding.

However, I don't think the way our system is built up is the best way to do it. The newly released 'Zeitgeist Moving Forward', proposed an alternate way of building and structuralize a society which would probably feel much more rewarding for the mind and soul. According to the movie, most of the work done today could be replaced by some sort of automatisation done by machines.

At the very least, I think it's an interesting intellectual exercise to contemplate different and better ways to do things.