Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural?

Originally posted by HomeBrew
Regardless of how you go about it, one must always 'work' for food, shelter, safety, ect. It's as natural as breathing. So, no. I do not feel it's un-natural in the slightest.

This is not so... Look at the Cherokee

And there is a huge difference between putting effort into your existence as opposed to trying to support yourself and your employer at the same time.

It doesnt take quite as much to feed yourself, if you don't have to carry someone else on your back at the same time (i.e. your employer)

I have found that the harder someone works the less they are successful...

Unless of course all of that energy is put into their own business....

I realized a long time ago that when you have the mindset of "Where is the job" then you have the mindset of a slave.

You can only NOT be a slave if you take full control over what you believe and what you do with your life, with all others be damned.

Otherwise, welcome to the shackles.

reply to post by GeminiSky


unnatural is not having to work since you would always have to something for food and for surviving in general... irrational animals work too, they hunt all the time, and some build nests and holes...

unnatural is the push for consumerism. you end up working for what you don´t really need, like this laptop I´m using right now

I am glad there is a thread like this. I am 38, going on 39. I started working at the age of 16 at a movie theatre. At the age of 22 I was working in the IT department as a technician, at around the age of 27 I was working at another corporation as the Network and Telecom administrator.... Where am I now? I am in a labor union building the city and surrounding area because of the decline of the dot coms, and also because the acquisition company I worked for overstepped it's bounds and purchased (and destroyed) too much of their competition.

Let me tell you, I have worked my butt off - have had nearly no vacations because of the need to keep myself in any work force that I have become a part of, including the current construction trade. Sometimes people in my trade poke a bit of fun at me because I have a collage education, but yet I do manual labor. Little do they realize, work everywhere has the same ethics... compliance to a broken system.

No matter how hard you work, no matter the quality of your work, no matter who you work for and no matter how quickly you do your job - you, or your work will never be good enough for 'their' return profits.

This thread really hits home for me, because I have seen the decay from many perspectives. The cogs in the wheel of the machine are becoming broken. More and more people are becoming aware. The more people that become aware - the faster you and I can change things.

Peace.

reply to post by illusion987


100% agree

I work EMS and I love my job. I work 12 hour shifts as well, usually 3 1/2-4 days a week.
I can nap, the station is about a mile from my house and still in our coverage district, so I can go home for something if I need to.

Do something you like and then it is not work.

I sure do. In fact, I believe we'd all be better off if we still lived in a world without technology. We're too reliant on it. If we end up having to go back to basics in some kind of desolate world scenario, 90 percent of the worlds population is screwed.


-B

reply to post by GeminiSky



I think your exactly right on starred and flagged.

Our system is in decay, and we need a whole new approach to how we live and work. The current system is miserable at best and the choices are limited.

Even though we can create our own niche, it's difficult to enjoy when you see so many other people suffering in the world.

I wrote a short story similar to what you speak of here, but with a different twist.

A Plea For Help

reply to post by GeminiSky

I too felt this way at about the same age. One day I met some traveling kids who told me about train hopping and rainbow gatherings and dumpster diving and living a very fun life. So i paid off my debts, saved up a bit of cash and hit the road for three years straight. It was the best time of my life. It was the mid 90's and I lived on about 3000 a year.

Check out WWOOFING opportunities in your area www.wwoof.org...

www.welcomehome.org...

I have since returned tot he 'working world' feeling like it is my choice, and not someone elses. That makes the biggest difference.

Originally posted by GeminiSky
How in the world am I supposed to live my life when I get home late, only have a few hours for myself to eat, wash up, and before I know it Im falling asleep only to repeat the process all over again the next day.
---GeminiSky

edit on 11-2-2011 by GeminiSky because: Added additional content to summarize my thoughts.

I know exactly how you feel. Although I have nowhere near the work experience you do, I've worked in warehouse jobs that completely suck the life out of you. The last one I worked in, people were working 12 or 14 hour days EVERY DAY with no days off. These hours/days were not optional, it was a work or be fired kind of deal. I didn't even know that was legal. It seems like these companies take advantage of people who are disadvantaged or low-income individuals/families who don't have other income options at their disposal. They become dependent on working for so-and-so company, making someone else rich, just so they can barely afford their home and food. That's not life, that's LEGAL SLAVERY.

OP, I have a book I'd like to recommend to you, but I'm not exactly sure how the linking rules work, so I'll just explain where to get it.
The book is called "Days of War, Nights of Love", from Crimethinc. Ex-Workers' Collective. They have their own website, you can buy it on there or probably elsewhere online.
Large parts of it deal with materialism, work, true freedom, etc etc. I have a feeling you would enjoy reading it, so check it out.

I think the intense competition of capitalism and having to work 40 hours a week just to pay bills and taxes is exactly what IS unhealthy/unnatural. The western workforce ethic means you get much less than what you put in. Why should the minimum wage be less than $10 an hour? Why should we pay local, state and federal taxes with an out-of-control beuracracy that routinely under-performs and does not listen to the will of the people?

People are part of the problem because they have sacrificed free will for materialism and greed! People want a BIG car, a BIG house, a LONG vacation, an EXPENSIVE watch, a TOP NOTCH education for themselves and their children, a power-boat with a 200 hp engine, an expensive computer, expensive and top-notch everything...

The problem is multifold as I see it. We are overworked, we are underpaid, we have high expectations for ourselves and each other, the government does not care about its citizens, corporations buy politicians come election time, an out of control military industrial complex, pseudo-journalism, out-of-control pharmaceutical companies, out-of-control petroleum companies.

Everyone looks out primarily for themselves and god for everyone? Not good!!!

I agree with you on this. Life is far too short and precious to spend such a huge amount of time making other people richer and fatter by working as their employee.

If anybody likes reading then I recommend looking into several books written by Daniel Quinn, more specifically, Ishmael, My Ishmael, The Story Of B, and Beyond Civilization. These are all great books and actually cover the OP's topic very well in my opinion.

Originally posted by baked
I sure do. In fact, I believe we'd all be better off if we still lived in a world without technology. We're too reliant on it. If we end up having to go back to basics in some kind of desolate world scenario, 90 percent of the worlds population is screwed.


-B

That's only natural... because there's no possible way we could support the population we have now without technology, without our medicine, the ability to mass mine minerals from the Earth.

Which, again, is fine if you want to live without it. Just don't expect ANY convenience in your life, with a LOT of mundane tasks you need to do and a lot of standing around. Oh, and a lot of ignorance. Without technology, you sure would be happily existing, sure. But what's the point of just existing?

I'd rather struggle a little bit (like having to eat just ramen for 3 months after getting laid off, been there done that), and be able to strive for my maximum capability and learn as much as possible than live simply.

How do you feel about Egypt right now? In 'your perfect world of unicorns and candy' where you don't have to work, don't have technology, just have you and your chickens you'd be... sitting there, asking "what's an Egipt?" You wouldn't have any possibility to travel, to see the world. To see a different landscape, to meet different people, to feel romance... that's certainly worth giving up.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
I worked a part time job at ten dollars an hour, four hours a day, up to twenty hours a week. I bought little, and could still pay rent (living with a roommate). I bought entertainments in bulk, got food from the food bank, purchased in bulk from grocers, and learned how to cook. It is incredibly cheap to survive in a modern society, if you can resist meaningless materialism and meaningless luxuries like television and such.

P.S. I can pay for high speed internet too!

edit: I quit that job because it was a telemarketing sales job and I was so depressed that I almost walked in front of a truck.

edit on 12-2-2011 by SmedleyBurlap because: (no reason given)

this guys got the right idea.....I'm almost 30 and worked since I was 15 I dont make much but I live well by most standards..I rent rooms instead of renting apartments I go to food banks and volunteer my 2 hours a week for all my basic foods so I can save money for other things.. I live in California so the cost of living here is outrageous but it's doable if you know how to budget and be happy with maybe not the freshest phone or car..sounds funny but I learned how to live a simple life and be happy from doing time in Prison... Recently I worked 7 days a week 10 hour days at $15 an hour under the table for 3 months straight and was killing myself in the process but i saved as much as possible quit my job and went to Panama and Costa Rica for 2 months for Vaacation/Mental Healing....I totally agree if you get trapped in materialism and work your whole life away to get yourself outta debt just to die young is unnatural.. We as people need time to enjoy the world we live in...and despite what people may think about how hard it is to live off the land it's really pretty easy if you use todays technology to make it easier and like real estate it's location location location...If you were to set up camp by a river and have a in line filter for water thats your drinking source...A good bow or crossbow for reusable ammo in hunting a canner and a smoker with a garden set up for winter and summer crops. After about a year of staging your base camp you would have tons of time to do what ever it is that makes you happy.. but chances are in going that route you'll never see the world and experience things outside of your residence so thats why I keep working but not because I have to its because I want to...

Working for the wrong things is unnatural.It is definetely unnatural to want to drive a 50k car,wanting a huge diamond ring...These wants are created by giant thinktanks who bombard you with commercials and advertising.90 percent of moms are driving around in expensive suvs.Whats wrong with them.They could be driving a used ford pinto station wagon with the round window on the side.They wonder why they are broke.

I believe that everyone has to do their bit to progress, but most of humanity is slave to the monetary system and it is the cause of many of our stresses, woes and problems in the world today.

reply to post by GeminiSky


Ahhh....the world of work. The world will always need workers. How would you enjoy going on vacation if there were no hotel workers, airlines, restaurant workers etc.... How would you get food or shelter? Someone has to provide you with these services. This world would be going backwards and boring without the worker. The perfect world would have all workers making a comfortable wage and everyone doing a job they enjoy doing. Machines or robots would do the jobs nobody wants to do. The "key" is doing something you enjoy doing. If you're always looking at the clock, you're in the wrong job. If you wake up in the morning and dread going to work, you're in the wrong job. If you find yourself working beyond your scheduled work hours because "you want to," than you're in the right job. There are many days I work extra hours for free! I just get so focused on what I'm doing I lose track of time. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that have jobs that don't feel that way. It took me a few years and a few jobs to find exactly what I was looking for.

Just my opinions here, though they echo sentiments of some others.

I don't think 'work' is a bad thing, the problem is that we don't have 'work' any more. Instead, in America we have a system of free range slavery. Toil away for a pittance and have no life. Put in just as many hours as the Big Boss who is getting a $1,000,000 bonus when you're lucky to be getting $30,000. Pay it all back in taxes and utilities to those same people making that $1,000,000 while the pimps on Madison Avenue try to sell you more unessescary crap that is designed from square 1 to break on you two days after the warranty is up. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

It's a very different world than the one I grew up in...

I remember a conversation I had not too long ago in France. The gentleman I was speaking to made what I thought was a very good point: Europeans work to live... Americans live to work. Very true.

Originally posted by shagula
How do you feel about Egypt right now? In 'your perfect world of unicorns and candy' where you don't have to work, don't have technology, just have you and your chickens you'd be... sitting there, asking "what's an Egipt?" You wouldn't have any possibility to travel, to see the world. To see a different landscape, to meet different people, to feel romance... that's certainly worth giving up.

Woah. I never said I didn't want to work. In fact, I disagreed with the OP's original question. If I lived without technology, I would be working my ass off.

Me and my chickens, huh? LMAO

The biggest problem with people is that they confuse wants and needs. A youngster enters the work force with plans. They have the latest Car and Driver mag with the 550hp flavor of the day weighing heavy on their minds. They work,work,work till they have the cash for a down payment and can get someone to cosign. They end up working towards everything in their lives this way and thats fine. Im not condemning anyone. I did it myself for a long time. If that makes you happy, then by all means keep doing it.

I just began to realize that I had no time to truly enjoy the things I was buying. I would buy a fancy camera and never get to use it because I was always at work and I darn sure didnt want to be reminded of that place. I would buy a new truck or car and before I made the first years payments on it I hated it no matter how good it actually was. Go to work for 10-12 hrs a day (40 hour work week a myth), come home, turn on the news, eat, kiss the kids, shower and go to bed. Next day is just a wash,rinse and repeat of the former. To me, that just wasnt living no matter how nice my stuff was.

Nowadays I still get up early, but everyday is unique. I dont miss the rat race and love my life. They say that you dont know what youve got till its gone. I know what I had and I am glad its gone. I have what I need and want nothing more.

Yes, yes and yes. Work is awful. Humans are not meant to be a cog in the machine of corporate moneymaking. Work is the stupidest waste of time humanity has ever conceived of. I want to run away into the wilderness and burn my ID's and live on berries and small game I've trapped and cooked over a fire I built myself... I want to run free and live a life of meaning but day in and day out I slave myself out to the highest bidder. The elite seem to have the game rigged so that the highest bidder is not even paying enough for me to feed myself or buy clothing. I can pay rent and bills. No vacation ever. Raises of 10 cents a year as I see prices on everything double or triple. The elite hyper inflate my currency and I feel like they are literally threatening my life and I want to get very violent against them out of pure self defensive instinct. That's not terrorism, that's not crazy. That is honest self preservation instinct, fight or flight instinct. When a mugger threatens you at knife point and steals your groceries, you either fight or run. If a banker intentionally destroys your currency, intentionally hyper inflating the currency to death, isn't it the same? It's taking food out of our mouths. It's reducing our chances of supporting a family. It's preventing us from doing anything of value to even repair the broken system. The crushing poverty being imposed on us by the wealthy elite really makes it hard to do much of anything. Everyone I know wants to start a business and be their own boss and hire their friends, which is how it's supposed to work. We are told to compete with the giant megacorporations and their outsourced labor force overseas while they heap beurocracy and fees and taxes on the small businesses but make huge corporations exempt. It's totally unfair.

What should happen is the people just quit working for all the big evil corporations and let them sink into ruin. They should burn their money and credit cards. They should claim all the farmable land for humanity and start producing food. Everyone should just work together to have a healthy local community where everyone has a home and food to eat. TO HELL WITH THE REST. lets just all unify in saying "this system is stupid, it doesn't work, and it's killing us, so we quit"

If we could all just agree to throw away the broken old system and start fresh, we could achieve great things, like converting to free renewable energy over the next 30 years. We need to evolve people. Our culture and civilization must evolve.

It's time for anarchy. Not mad max style raiders looting and pillaging like vikings. What I mean is it's time to stand up and say those who claim power of authority are not our masters, we are free, we are not going to be slaves, we are not going to do what they command, No man has a right to dominate another. The elite have told the greatest lie, that they are better than any of us.