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Open challenge to debunkers!

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posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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You know, we missed a trick on these hoaxes.
Think about it.

The first and 2nd video's were posted.
Immediately, even before the parallax and tiling issues were brought up, people called fake based on the CGI wobble of the "ufo" and also of the obvious fakeness of the flashes in 1 and 2 (which didn't even match) and lack of lighting effects on the surrounding buildings and area

Then a couple of days later video 4 appeared almost as if magically answering those problems with 1 and 2.
It did a much better job of the flashes (though giftforprophecy shows how easily the flash in video 4 is to do with AfterEffects, not that the believers want to watch his video at all).

Seems to me the maker of video 4 was watching 1 and 2 get shot down and knew EXACTLY what details to include to "correct" the obvious errors in 1 and 2.
He/They were watching the debunkers and picking up tips.

Just a thought.


And whoever this is is DEFINITELY going to try this again.
They'll have had way too much fun not to......


edit on 7-2-2011 by faustus because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by WinnieDaWho
reply to post by Paradigm2012
 


I believe it is a hoax because of the mirror image, now you showed me that the building is real, IM LOSt
(


Its not a mirrored image, its a hotel.


The folks who said it was a mirrored image did a sloppy halfwit job and were not paying attention.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
reply to post by Paradigm2012
 


Here's and open challenge to you. Educate and learn for yourself, rather than beg/challange strangers to do it over the internet for you.

Go get yourself a program, learn how to use it.....then you will be able to join the club of folks like us that aren't so easily fooled.

I, am many others around here could recreate this video. I could do it in under one hour (I would use some stock internet background picture for speed and lazyness problems). But I'm not going to bother, and that is what you want folks like me to say, so you can sit there and shout "SEE, I TOLD YOU IT THEY CAN'Y DUPLICATE IT!!!"

This is a stupid game your playing, and you know it, we know it and I am sure the mods know it.

Stop playing your silly game and go learn to use simple cgi and video programs. I am sure after less than a month of learning them you will be laughing at your earlier self.

That is the only way of denying ignorance here. Deny it on a personal level by learning. What your doing here is what is always been done, which is a silly, stupid game that never works and always ends up actually causing those with absurd and improbable beliefs to become emboldened about them...further hurting and ensuring this subject is laughable (it is laughable because it is filled with ignorant individuals who are so interested in it they can post utter crap on a board many times a day, but not interested enough to actually learn simple tools they could use in order to promote their intelligence......sad, if you even understand what I am saying.
edit on 6-2-2011 by IgnoreTheFacts because: can't type worth a crap


Damn it, I skipped to the end of the thread which is one of my greatest hates, I did it simply because I envisioned countless pages of utter drivel, needless to say it looks like I was right but there in it was YOUR post, a beacon of light in a dank old world of BS.

I posted a similar thing but yours simply was perfect


Well done as always ITF...


You say this is one of the daftest threads and you had skip to the end of the thread because of the 'countless pages of utter drivel'.

SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE THEN????


Don't let the door hit you on the way out!



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by faustus
 


Still waiting for proof that it was a hoax, because nobody has proven it to be a hoax.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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hahahahahahaha...its not a hoax........Cuz Its Real



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Paradigm2012
reply to post by faustus
 


Still waiting for proof that it was a hoax, because nobody has proven it to be a hoax.


Well said. But now they want the thread binned because they cannot prove it is a hoax.

Reminds me what dictators would do in their countries when they are criticised!



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Long time lurker, but I had to join up to pitch into this ridiculous thread. The OP is asking for somebody to recreate something comparable to the Jerusalem video, as if it's an impossible task. What we see is a light descending, then a flash, then the light ascending at speed. It's hardly Industrial Light & Magic stuff is it?

But still, if it is a fake - and my gut instinct is that's exactly what is - it can't be denied that it's a fairly good fake made by somebody with a good working knowledge of After Effects or similar software. However the OP seems to think ATS is full of video effects enthusiasts who can immediately cobble together a convincing facsimile. Just because we can't immediately come up with a perfect facsimile of the video in question, does NOT mean that the original isn't a fake. My Dad has a painting of the Mona Lisa in his bedroom - it's an obvious fake but ask me to recreate it and I couldn't.

What I would suggest though is if there are indeed any ATS members who can recreate this video - please do so, if only to put this whole sorry thread to bed for good.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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What has become abundantly clear in this thread is the fact that some 'believers' here are totally unable to understand the principles of digital animation and laws of perspective that have proven this to be a HOAX. They're no longer discussing the proof that got it moved to the hoax bin in the first place at all, just constantly demanding different proof. If they were going to be able to understand it they would by now - it's all there in the original thread and to keep arguing with them about it is pointless.
The proof that has already been provided, expanded upon and thoroughly explained several times over was good enough for the mods and the adult members of this site. The fact that you can't understand it doesn't mean the proof isn't good enough for the critical minds of the alien believers, it just means your not good enough at.......well........thinking to comprehend it.
There's always going to be people here with different levels of education, operating on different levels of understanding and as such there will always be a minority of people who just dont get it and can't let go when a HOAX is over and done with. I'm not prepared to take responsibility for educating people that still can't see why this is a hoax so I'm not going to post in this thread anymore because if you're not able to figure it out now, you probably have several weeks if not months of learning ahead of you before you can work it out.


oh and by the way the logic behind "if nobody can re-create the videos and post them in this thread then nobody can re-create them at all" is severely flawed.

It's comparable to saying "if you can't run a marathon right now, you can't run a marathon at all". I can run a marathon, but I have plans for later on today and work in the morning so I wouldn't do it if somebody demanded that I prove it because there are easier means for me to do so.
Similarly I could reproduce this video but i'm not going to because it has already been proven that it is a hoax through less time consuming and effort intensive methods of analysis and I have better things to do with my time than convince one or two fanatics on ATS that this video can be reproduced when in all likelihood they would still then turn around and say "well that still doesn't prove it's a hoax!".
Do you understand that the fact this video is relatively easily reproduced is the weakest piece of evidence that it is fake but that there is a much greater body of evidence that is irrefutable? It's such a classic believer tactic to lock on to the weakest piece of evidence that something is a hoax and attack it whilst ignoring the wealth of other evidence, and in this case, proof that the video is a hoax.

Oh and by the way I think it could be a viral ad for the new film about nazis in space called 'iron sky'
edit on 7-2-2011 by Arkady because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-2-2011 by Arkady because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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I'm not saying these are real, and I'm not saying they are fake. The evidence isn't really absolute on either side of the debate in my opinion so I wouldn't deem every video we've seen a hoax yet. Yes video #3 is extremely suspicious, I agree. I think a lot of people have started crying HOAX very early on and just want to stick to their guns without really being fully open minded. This goes for the other side of the fence as well, people will believe what they want to if they see something that isn't there sometimes. Not everyone is convinced, which I would consider giving those that aren't convinced based on the "proof" we've seen some reasonable doubt that they may possibly have an understanding of video manipulation and still think it's not a hoax yet based on that. Honestly, I don't think we can really get too far analyzing just youtube videos. We need to analyze the actual footage, know more details from the person filming, like what they filmed on, compare supposed times of filming, and checking EXIF data if that is relevant to video files.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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All we have here is people rudely disregarding every piece of evidence that gets presented showing this to be a hoax and just demanding more.

This thread will be infinite if the mods allow it.

Fundamentalists will NEVER change their opinion even in the face of overwhelming evidence that contradicts their beliefs. NEVER. NEVER.
That's what makes them what they are.

Why waste your time?
You will not change their minds at all. That is abundantly clear.


According to their logic the film "District 9" must be a real documentary, as it shows a UFO hovvering over South Africa from numerous angles, both during the day and at night.
That is clearly IMPOSSIBLE according to the Fundies.... therefore District 9 must be real, there must be a UFO over South Africa, the MSM are covering it up and the film was just a deception to assist that cover up.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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I have a problem with the attitude of the "experts" here at ATS over the Jerusalem UFO and it's this:

If people STILL don't believe you after you've presented your evidence, then you haven't convinced them, you can't simply walk off claiming victory if a large majority don't believe your findings, which is largely what's happening here.

Personally I think the request of this thread is a great idea, it would enable us (clueless morons:duh
to better understand CGI and it’s limits/capabilities. Given that this is such a large event and has so many supporters who refuse to believe the debunks, this is your ultimate chance to prove your worth. Sure, it's a bit of effort, but go on, just this once...
make a video that mirrors video 4. Go on..


The reason i'd love to see this is because i've covered CGI Hoaxing on O-fu re: China airport UFO. There's a video in the post showing how it's done. I'd love to see the same for this, as if it's fake i'm completely blown away that you can make Hollywood budget CGI at home.

edit on 7-2-2011 by ceetee because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-2-2011 by ceetee because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-2-2011 by ceetee because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-2-2011 by ceetee because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by ceetee
Personally I think it’s a great idea, it would enable us (clueless morons) to better understand CGI and it’s limits/capabilities. Given that this is such a large event and has so many supporters who refuse to believe the debunks, this is your ultimate chance to prove your worth. Sure, it's a bit of effort, but go on, just this once...

make a video that mirrors video 4.


The reason i'd love to see this is because i've covered CGI Hoaxing on O-fu re: China airport UFO. There's a video in the post showing how it's done. I'd love to see the same for this, as if it's fake i'm completely blown away that you can make Hollywood budget CGI at home.

edit on 7-2-2011 by ceetee because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-2-2011 by ceetee because: (no reason given)



Here's one a kid did at home. WAY better than any of these hoaxes. Its a work of art.
www.youtube.com...


You need some 3d software (3dMax or Maya are the industry standard, clocking in at over £3000) and some compositing software (AfterEffects £1000 - the standard for home users) and YEARS of modelling editing and compositing skills.
You are not going to learn those in one post on ATS.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Troofseeker
 


Ok hes asking for people to recreate it but I've lost count of the number of debunkers that have said "I can recreate that video" so I think this thread is aimed at them specifically not everybody on ATS, he's asking them to put there money were there mouth is which is fair game I think, don't claim to something you CAN'T do.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Paradigm2012
reply to post by faustus
 


Still waiting for proof that it was a hoax, because nobody has proven it to be a hoax.


Still waiting for proof that it was real, because nobody has proven it to be real.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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I've got a degree in computer games design and I reckon I could definately do it. It wouldn't be hard either. Just take multiple videos of the same spot, and add an animation of the light using something like Adobe After Effects. You can also add sound very simply afterwards. However I am not going to do this myself because I simply can't be bothered, if you want to see what is possible with software like After Effects then check this out:

www.videocopilot.net...



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by faustus
 


WOW! thanks for that...
I got this from a linked site:


I'm from Montevideo (Uruguay... small country between Argentina and Brasil), and I wanted to share with everybody my last short movie. It's about Giant Robots, coming to destroy my small city. I think maybe it's an attempt to make the city look bigger and more important.. ..at least in the Giant Robot's schedule. www.youtube.com... (Watch'it in HQ!) It took U$s300 to shoot the live action, and then maybe a year to complete the 90 vfx shots (during very interrupted periods...) I used Premiere, After, Photoshop, 3dMax, Boujou, Glu3d and FumeFx. The modeling, mapping and rigging of the Robots, fighters and planes was made by Mauro Rondan. (mauro@aparato.tv) Looking foward to hear your feedback! Hope you'll like it! FedeAlvarez. (www.aparato.tv)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by SpaceMonkeys
 


wow again!

thanks for the link. I now fully accept that it would be very easy to recreate video 4 if you know what you were doing.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by oxbow

Originally posted by Paradigm2012
reply to post by faustus
 


Still waiting for proof that it was a hoax, because nobody has proven it to be a hoax.


Still waiting for proof that it was real, because nobody has proven it to be real.



Sigh
that about sums it up.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by ceetee
 


NP.
As you can tell from the article, $300 to shoot. One man. One year (with big breaks).

And Hollywood videos spend MILLIONS!! on FX budgets for their big Blockbusters.
His work is in many places just as good.
Someone is making a HEAPLOAD of money over there in Hollywood!

You can imagine why its such a popular field for young artists/IT nerds to get involved with at home, the chance to get into making that much MONEY for playing with special FX! Yes please!

When I was a hobbyist I knew loads of other guys just in my hometown that were heavily into the same and all had the same or similar software. The popular "3d" magazines often have readerships into the 100s of thousands.
Home CGI is far more wide-spread than I suspect many realise.



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