Why is 2012 any different to any other "End of the World Predication"

reply to post by packinupngoin


Hey, thanks so much for your response and link, its interesting I like your perspective and in some ways its made me a little more relaxed (Not that i was frantic) in short the answer is "Who knows" time will simply tell.

Needless to say I am still interested in 2012 theories, but I'm not really stressed.

Hi, I think that people either believe something will happen or don't. It's been that way forever. The problem though now is that there are just so many theories that its getting ridiculous. Many people seem to believe that the mayan prediction is for the "end of the world" when it actually is the end of a cycle it means "the end of the world AS WE KNOW IT" and thats where the confusion lies. I have researched it myself and don't think there will be any singular event that wipes life off the planet, but feel that maybe we are heading for a big change in the way we live. This is seen by many as a positive thing.

If we carry on raping the planet and wasting the few precious resources we have left, then the current world population and its rapid growth and our current way of life will become very difficult to sustain. Don't forget that the term End of The World really does need the As We Know It tacked on the end which changes it from a negative to a positive (for some at least)._javascript:icon('')

There seems to be a lot of confusing info floating around out there and ignorance is the culprit for much of it. I think this world needs a radical change away from our technology crazed, materialistic ways and come together as a race for the benefit of all. The only thing that seems plausible to reach this end is the NASA predictions of intense solar flare activity it has foercast for December 2012/January 2013. This is based on science and what is known for fact. What will this do? who knows exactly, but NASA are recommending that people should try to be self sufficient for at least 2 years at this time. I suppose a global black out caused by solar flares or emp's or whatever will certainly slow life down and achieve a rethink of what's important. Just my opinion though.

How is 2012 different from other End of the World predictions?
Well, firstly, because there isn't a prediction. No prediction, no prophecy, no lost ancient mayan knowledge of the ages. There never was. The whole thing was just a New Age lie first popularized by Jose Arguelles back in the late 60's-early 70's based on rather spectacular leaps of judgement and unconnected exaggerated conclusions.

Hell, the Mayans aren't even entirely responsible for the calendar themselves. They only created the outer round of the calendar. They, like most of the other meso-americans of the time borrowed much of their "technology", customs and beliefs from the previous Olmec civilization.

It's nothing more than fairy tale fear mongering for profit.
Want to learn and research yourself? Sure you do. Start with www.2012hoax.org... .
This site is an excellent source that fully explores every aspect and claim about 2012 and why it's wrong. The best part is that every claim or opinion made is backed up with footnote links to all the sources they used so that you can research it yourself.

As ATS is known for, "Deny Ignorance", so too should it be known for "Educate Yourself."

reply to post by dethduck


Yeh, like I said, you either believe or you don't. I visited the 2012hoax.org site and they claim to be able to debunk ALL the theories about 2012. I know they can't all be true, and a lot are really out there, but to dismiss it all as a bunch of new age hippie crap is rather closed minded.
The website claims 2012 is a hoax and "a scam invented to make money off of peoples fear". Not every religion in the world can be right either, but people believe, or they don't. I don't believe in God or religion, but thats my choice. I don't go around saying all religion is "a scam invented to make money off of peoples fears". And lets face it, by the above websites reckoning, religion would be the biggest scam ever perpetrated on man. Millions of believers handing over billions of dollars, all based on something that can't be proven beyond doubt.
Give that site a miss, its not informative at all, just gives a few opinions from individuals who decided they don't believe it, and it certainly does not fully explore every aspect at all.
Pretty much anything can be proven or disproved with a bit of info manipulation and I could probably find more than one website that can "prove" there is no God, don't make it so.
Only your own informed opinion counts, so research and decide for yourself.

reply to post by downunder666


Thanks for the link mate, i'll go and have a look

I do like the counter in the bottom left hand side of the link '687 days x hours x minutes x seconds untill the end of the world' did make me chuckle, the bloke who made the site will feel like a bit of a burk when the timer runs out and he's sitting in his bunker while we're all inside having a beer!

reply to post by dethduck


Oh I couldn't agree more, research and self education is the best way to learn, hence making this thread.

Cheers for the link, I certainly didn't come across that one.

reply to post by no special characters


The Mayans made NO predictions concerning 2012. That date is the end of the long count calendar. There are no Mayans predictions associated with the end of that particular calendar. That does not mean that some New Age hoaxers did not fabricate some claims to line their pockets with money.

reply to post by dropdjones


The 2012 claims are many by many people that want a slice of the pie. There is money to remove from the pockets of the gullible and lots of pocket picking hoaxers at work. Claims such as the ones at the site you referenced forget to mention that this alignment happens every year and was best in 1998.

Here is part of what they stated:

As stars and planetary systems, including our own approach this galactic plain the gravitational influence increases, which disturbs the stability of the planets, including earth.

First of all the word is plane, not plain. More importantly gravity is not increased at the plane.

Here's the next sentence and its a doozie.

The passage through the most dense portion of the gravitational plain is the direct result of the devastation cycles and pole shifts that we see recorded throughout earths history.

There are no devastation cycles and pole shifts have not happened in 200My. There is a possible periodic nature to extinction events, but the period is not related to this plane.

This is just another pseudoscience website of no merit.

reply to post by downunder666


The bible does not mention 2012, but that has not stopped people from pretending that it does. That effort is no different from the fake claims that there are Mayan prophecies for 2012.

Originally posted by disaster123
Yeh, like I said, you either believe or you don't. I visited the 2012hoax.org site and they claim to be able to debunk ALL the theories about 2012. I know they can't all be true, and a lot are really out there, but to dismiss it all as a bunch of new age hippie crap is rather closed minded.

I don't agree with that assessment at all. Each issue on the site is presented with evidence, reason and links to pertinent science to the greatest extent possible. Given the volume of material dealt with, it is possible that some sections could be sourced better than they are presently. If you have any suggestions for improvement, let us know.

The website claims 2012 is a hoax and "a scam invented to make money off of peoples fear".

Plenty of evidence is provided to this end regarding many of the 2012 proponents addressed. Of course, I don't think all proponents can be shoved under that umbrella. People who promote and/or believe in various 2012 claims can fall into all sorts of categories, not all of them malicious. The crux of the site, however, is dealing with a variety of misunderstandings and falsehoods about history and science, commonly promoted by a number of authors and websites of dubious repute in the fields in which they claim authority. "[A] scam invented to make money off of peoples fear" is a cherry-picked line that, while relevant to the introduction, doesn't summarize the site near as well as the actual subtitle in the header: "Debunking the '2012 Doomsday'."

Not every religion in the world can be right either, but people believe, or they don't. I don't believe in God or religion, but thats my choice. I don't go around saying all religion is "a scam invented to make money off of peoples fears".

I suspect the case can be made for many proponents of various religious doomsdays and other prophecies that precisely that is so. Again, clearly not the case for everyone, but anyone willing to pursue that particular angle can probably do so with no shortage of source material.

And lets face it, by the above websites reckoning, religion would be the biggest scam ever perpetrated on man. Millions of believers handing over billions of dollars, all based on something that can't be proven beyond doubt.

Could be. Certainly, religious doomsayers might be said to have occupied such a role at various points throughout history.

Give that site a miss, its not informative at all, just gives a few opinions from individuals who decided they don't believe it, and it certainly does not fully explore every aspect at all.
Pretty much anything can be proven or disproved with a bit of info manipulation and I could probably find more than one website that can "prove" there is no God, don't make it so.

Perhaps you'd care to reveal exactly which articles fail to meet your standard of "informative," along with an explanation, in as much detail as possible, of why you think the information presented is mere opinion. Feel free to post your concerns on the message board, in this thread or in a PM to me. If either of the latter two options, I'll see that the relevant parties are made aware of your criticisms. Please be specific.

Only your own informed opinion counts, so research and decide for yourself.

I essentially agree, but always consider your sources.

reply to post by UndeadDinosaur


Thank you, UndeadDinosaur, for that website and the work you put into it.
I, for one, and glad to finally have a compiled resource I can point people towards to show them what I've been saying for years now.

Welcome to ATS.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by downunder666

 

The bible does not mention 2012, but that has not stopped people from pretending that it does. That effort is no different from the fake claims that there are Mayan prophecies for 2012.

Agreed, upon further investigation I couldn't find any specific information that related to any date... Interestingly enough I spoke to my mate who lives and breathes through the Bible and he was adamant the end was near, I questioned him on a date, he said he didn't know but it wasn't far.... all very general stuff.

reply to post by disaster123

Pretty much anything can be proven or disproved with a bit of info manipulation and I could probably find more than one website that can "prove" there is no God, don't make it so.
Only your own informed opinion counts, so research and decide for yourself.

Equating 2012 with religion is reasonable. To equate the debunkers at 2012hoax.org with religion is way off the mark. The people that came up with the lies were New Age religion folks as has been pointed out in this thread. Their claims are based on lies that there are any ancient prophecies associated with 2012. That is the start fo the lie and nothing has changed the fact that this is a hoax, a fraud, a lie.

reply to post by downunder666


These are some very good examples.
although after some reasherarch in the event i found at least six or more reasons why 2012 is bull

reply to post by downunder666

Agreed, upon further investigation I couldn't find any specific information that related to any date... Interestingly enough I spoke to my mate who lives and breathes through the Bible and he was adamant the end was near, I questioned him on a date, he said he didn't know but it wasn't far.... all very general stuff.

Miller was the first or one of the first to 'find' a secret code in the bible that allowed him to determine the date of the second coming. Nothing happened and he recomputed a date and nothing happened on that date either. Two new religious sects later and people are still looking for that coming end of the world moment.
Millerism

Don't worry too much, after 2012 is passed, there will be a new year being picked to keep this doomsday industry businesses alive and continue to entertain those bored believers who fed there stomach full & want something to happen to their boring life. Oh...and the really crazy ones would have already committed suicide by then.

Originally posted by dethduck
reply to post by UndeadDinosaur

 

Thank you, UndeadDinosaur, for that website and the work you put into it.
I, for one, and glad to finally have a compiled resource I can point people towards to show them what I've been saying for years now.

Truthfully, I'm but a forum mod and minor content contributor. I, too, commend the handful of folks who initially founded the site and put all the information together. It's turned into a great resource.

Welcome to ATS.

Thanks.

reply to post by stereologist


Interesting stuff..... It just occurred I haven't heard of any modern day Physic or Prophesy predicting the end, well... Physic or prophesy that has any credit....

Being 64, I first heard of the 2012 alignment in the early 90's on shortwave radio because at that time it was the only source to get information other than librarys. It got me interested of course and I began to study. I found out that many peoples from all over the world recognized the significince of the 2012 alignment and the events happening around the date of Dec, 21, 2012. After many years, I've come to the conclusion that "No one" mentioned in the original predictions about the distruction of the world. In short, they've all either came out and said that there would be a new enlightment take place within us and within society.

Now with that said....Many did hint of the possibilty of a pole shift or other castrophy based on the 26,000 year cycle, so for some.....it may be the end of the world. we can see this taking place now.(just be glad that it's happening over a period of time instead in an hour), although the earths crust could let go and we might have a large shift which would kill many and displace continents.

Don't buy into the end of the existance of mankind, or the total distruction of the earth even then, because we, as a life form has survived many such pole shifts. What is scaryer than a pole shift is Yellowstone which is showing signs of eruption as you read this. This could very well be the doom of many more than a pole shift. Yellowstone being one of the largest volcano's in the world could cause the sun to be darkened for as many as 10 years, not allowing anything to grow and causing a world wide ice age.

Still.....Some life will survive and some of that life will be us. Right now there are many things that are in relation to the alignment that could harm us including sun solar storms, metorites, etc.

My suggestion is to quit worring whether something will happen and start now preparing for survival in case something did. Did you know that here in the US we only have three days of shelf food on hand? Did you know that Hybrid seeds won't produce but one crop since their seeds won't produce? Do you have a way to make clean water? What kind of clothes do you have if we did go into an Ice Age?

Ok, I'll stop with this reply but remember that worring won't stop it from happening but being prepared can save your life.

Originally posted by bluesman4uonly

Now with that said....Many did hint of the possibilty of a pole shift or other castrophy based on the 26,000 year cycle, so for some.....it may be the end of the world.

And precession of the equinoxes causes global catastrophe . . . how, exactly?

we can see this taking place now.(just be glad that it's happening over a period of time instead in an hour),

No, we can't. What we see is the normal wandering of the poles that has ostensibly occurred for the duration of the magnetic field, whether a geomagnetic shift was in the works or not. Whether this is actually occurring now probably won't be apparent for another few centuries.

although the earths crust could let go and we might have a large shift which would kill many and displace continents.

I'm not even sure what "[earth's] crust could let go" is supposed to mean. Let go of what? Assuming you can come up with a mechanism by which this might occur in our current tectonic state (unlikely), it would still take hundreds of thousands to millions of years to occur. The only other option is a massive impact, that would probably result in a second moon and a melted planet with a brand new orbit.

Don't buy into the end of the existance of mankind, or the total distruction of the earth even then, because we, as a life form has survived many such pole shifts.

"Pole shift" as in geomagnetic reversal, yes, but I think you're talking about two different things without realizing it. There's no reason to think that geomagnetic reversals are harmful to biology, else we would expect to find evidence of mass extinctions in the fossil record correlating with previous reversals. We don't find this.

What is scaryer than a pole shift is Yellowstone which is showing signs of eruption as you read this.

Not necessarily.

volcanoes.usgs.gov...
bigthink.com...

This could very well be the doom of many more than a pole shift. Yellowstone being one of the largest volcano's in the world could cause the sun to be darkened for as many as 10 years, not allowing anything to grow and causing a world wide ice age.

Just because the Yellowstone caldera is a "supervolcano," that doesn't mean the only eruption it's capable of is a doomsday cataclysm. There have been massive eruptions during the age of man (Yellowstone and Lake Toba) but well before today's technology, yet we're still here, so maybe you should check your sources a bit more closely.

Still.....Some life will survive and some of that life will be us. Right now there are many things that are in relation to the alignment that could harm us including sun solar storms, metorites, etc.

Alignments (by which I assume you mean conjunctions) can't cause any of that. The gravitational and electromagnetic forces at those distances are too small. The biggest influence on Earth, by far, is the moon, and the most prominent effect we see from it is tides. See the inverse square law.

There are no conjunctions in 2012 that don't already happen more or less every year.

My suggestion is to quit worring whether something will happen and start now preparing for survival in case something did. Did you know that here in the US we only have three days of shelf food on hand? Did you know that Hybrid seeds won't produce but one crop since their seeds won't produce? Do you have a way to make clean water? What kind of clothes do you have if we did go into an Ice Age?

Hard to disparage emergency preparedness on some level, relative to your location and the biggest threats in that area, but there comes a point where one must factor reality into his calculations.

Ok, I'll stop with this reply but remember that worring won't stop it from happening but being prepared can save your life.

Fortunately, none of the "its" you've mentioned are likely to occur within any given human lifetime.