Scotland - North
Don't really know if anywhere would be entirely safe in a SHTF scenario but that's where I'd rather hedge my bets. A good abundance of fresh water
and natural resources, game & fish. A decent height above sea level, the terrain offers a multitude of crags and mountainous caverns and also there's
the wee bothy's which are left open along the hikers routes if push came to shove.
Norway... for 10000 bucks you can get a company to dig you a hole inside a mountain for fresh water. sewage is nonexistant in between larger cities
and there is tons and tons of space to get lost without meeting anyone... provisions in healthcare and social care are in place and most homes outside
of the few major cities are completely independent in regards to heating and cooking since 90% of norway burns wood to heat their homes... electricity
really is a byproduct up there...
To top it of one can aquire a decent home with some land for the price of a pickuptruck... my father owns a home in norway. its kinda old with about 2
acres of ground and 3 sheds... paid 15000 dollars for it... and our backyard is a mountain wich provides a large array of natural food resources for
the gatherers out there...
Perfect for a SHTF scenario.
edit on 31/1/2011 by faceoff85 because: (no reason given)
I have been seriously looking into Canada and Australia--both seem much safer than US or UK if SHTF and even safer and better for families now. What
worries me about Australia is lack of freedom-internet censorship etc--still it might not be a bad choice.
Originally posted by Danbones
Trouble with the uS is
A bazillion walking hungry guns
They say after all the game is dead they will be eating each other.
They say it might only take a few weeks.
There is the matter of over 100 nuclear chernobles, and also the superfund sites
Damn thats scary,and believeable sadly.
Great post DB
________________________________________________________________________________________________ reply to post by amazing
What you need is a temperate climate,with a good variety of natural food sources and to be proficient in how to hunt,,vast forest lands and lakes
would be good,a hell of a lot of study and practical learning on survival(see ATS survival forum),
You would also NEED a vast understanding of all things medical,from small cuts to DIY dentistry to taking out your own appendix/DIY bullet
Never mind knowledge of solar/hydro power for electricity...
So when you think you are good and ready,
maybe the Bulgarian national parks,or mid mountain height Himalayas,or parts of the Borneo lowlands could be good for you,
Just be careful bud,its tough out there,but youre off the grid alright.
As a Canadian living in a small town with 'outdoors experience' (fishing, hunting, etc) I can vouch for the abundance of food and materials. Not to
mention space. I live along the St. Lawrence and could hide myself very well on the Islands or near an inland lake.
Canada is BIG. and in comparison to most countries (maybe besides Russia) fairly empty, most Canadians live along the South of the country-The farther
north the less people and more wildlife, at least until you enter permafrost. The hardest part of surviving up here is keeping warm during the long
Well, I suppose the best place would be the one where the locals can understand you. I am guessing that would limit the OP poster to an English
speaking nations. Most people like to think they would survive in the wilderness, but I think that is pants and the vast majority would die in their
Disclaimer - I am no expert so YMMV - just saying...
I really don't see a problem with living in the rural US.
I can tell you it very much depends on where one chooses to live. I did a lot of research as my military retirement loomed and ultimately decided on
NW Missouri for several reasons.
I looked at IDAHO, Wyoming and Texas as well but decided on Missouri.
In the end it was a simple balancing act between being close enough to take advantage of available resources but far enough away from others that I'm
away from natural lines of human drift.
Most urban flight will end poorly for them and IMO being off the regular roads more than a mile will discourage all but the most determined of the
I am surrounded by Amish people who live in 1800 anyway and I have developed a great relationship with them over the 2 years and firmly believe SHTF I
would be able to rely on them for support. I can trade my military skills for their know how of wild west tech....
Land was cheap less than 2k an acre for pasture; I paid for 40 acres with a couple barns a small 4 BR 1908 farmhouse and a huge walk-in cattle
shelter. 10 Acres was hay and 10 acres was in soy/corn and tillable already. 14 acres of fenced pasture with a stream and a 1 acre pond. Got a
good well. Total price was 150k paid cash.
Besides living overseas you will have to trade issue for issue - while you might actually be better off come SHTF depending on your ethnicity being a
minority white American abroad paints a huge target on you. Depending on your countries actions you may face hatred or other issues.
Again, regarding guns in America - most people have no clue how to use one in combat and lack the training to use them effectively. I just see the
glut of guns coming my way as a means of resupply.
based on all that's been posted here, then i guess i can consider myself lucky to be in the philippines. but when the shtf, i guess we'll be cut off
over here same as everyone else (note to self: gather ebooks ). still its a pleasant enough place, people have a good sense of community and are
for the most part self-sufficient. what can i say? i'm just proud to be filipino.
Originally posted by JDBlack
Russia and a couple of other eastern europian countries may have parts that would be ok to live off grid. Africa probably wouldn't be a good
plave to try to live off grid, though some parts would be better than others. Most of the US has sections that would be good for living off grid, but
the coast are mostly non options, especially the east coast. Canada would be tough mostly because of winters, but that is a problem in the northern US
as well as the Russia.
edit on 31-1-2011 by JDBlack because: typo
Take my word for it, Russia is not the country to attempt to live off of the grid. Point in fact, you can not drive from the eastern coast to Moscow
unless you do it in a very large caravan. Otherwise you will be robbed by bandits before you even finish reading this paragraph.
Russia is rampant with desperate bandits who are waylaying any hapless travelers that they can overwelm. Much of the same is going on in Africa too
with roving bands of hungry people.
And I don't know if anyone here has been to Italy lately but that country has succumbed to widespread theft on a very large scale. Tourist who stick
to groups may or may not have all of their belongings stolen by professional thieves in their travel buses with a wink from the local law
The problem that I see with going off the grid in Canada (and I'm not saying that it is impossible as many people do this there) are the long brutal
winters where you will need to expend a lot of energy to keep from dying from exposure to the elements. Also, obtaining food sources in those long
winter months only complicated matters as much game goes underground during the worst winter months. Rivers and lakes freeze over too making fishing
problematic. All of the same can be said for Russia though, with of course the addition of the many gangs of highway bandits that the country has
been plaugued with for some time.
South America or Central America are not as easy a place to stow yourself away as you might at first think. You will need to remember that if you are
a pale skinned caucasion than you will stick out like a sore thumb that is dying to be robbed. I'm not saying that this happens all the time there
but do believe me when I tell you that caucasions are very often easy prey in Latin America. The reader may cry foul to these potentially
unpolitically correct statements if they wish, but it is what it is because I've been there and know what happens regularly down there.
Good luck, where-ever you decide but do use hard core reality as the basis of your decision making.
I am in the process of going to Costa Rica for the first time in a few months & have done a lot of research on this matter. My other choice is
Also, remember that yourtube is your friend and 90% of the houses for sale in CR or Uruguay are shown on youtube for the expats to see.
First Costa Rica:
1. Stable Democracy
2. If you are retired, only a $1,000 proof of monthly income to qualify for recidency
3. If single, $2500
4. Americans can visit the country without a visa for 90 days - If you want to be a "perpetual tourist" just leave the country for Panama (2 hours
by car) and hop back in for another 90 days.
5. CR has quite a bit of Americans and most people in San Jose, Excazu etc speak English.
6. Rents are super cheap
7. I do not recommend to buy property.
8. Universal health care
9. You can put your children in American private schools whose high school diplomas are valid in the US if ever needed
10. You can have dual citizenship in bot US and CR with no problems.
11. Americans have moved to CR and built tree houses like Star Wars Ewoks and are selling independent tree houses to other people
12. For sick Americans - Prostitution is legal
13. For the rest of us: NOT EVERYTHING IS CRIMINALIZED AND COURTS AS WELL AS COPS MOVE LIKE MOLASSES!!!!
And many otherS, just youtube "Costa Rica Tree Houses"
If you want a regular house and have the funds for it, CR offers some amazing properties whether @ the beach or up in the mountains like so:
Take a look at these people's Youtube channel since all their properties are priced on the vides so you can get an idea.
Also, looks like you can do whatever u want to your house without the CR government f**kin with you.
Also, take a loof at this ex-pat's website as it he talks about both the goos and the bad about CR The Real
No onto Uruguay (please note that my research into Uruguy just started so I do not have a lot of information)
So far I know the following
1. Dirt Cheap for your own land
2. You can even Squat somewhere, specially a Gringo's land who is an absentee landlord
3. For residency all you have to show is a $500 a month income
4. Americans can get residency fairly quickly
5. Once you get recidency the most important thing you can get from the .gov there is an Uruguayan PASSPORT - Which allows you to do other tricks like
disappearing in Cuba!!!
6. You can grow hemp with the .gov's blessing in their new 2010 pilot program
7. If you are into them, drugs for personal consumption are LEGAL
I've given up on the concept of bugging out of America anymore, partially because I have become accustomed to my community and feel I owe it to folks
not to abandon them, but mostly because of the apathy caused by crunching the numbers. The logistics behind moving to the "sticks" are daunting
enough without throwing in the huge monkey wrench of moving to another country. With all the gripes I have about America, leaving the country makes
living the good life much more difficult; unless you've got a good income and a good way of making an income in another country, you're often not
really welcome, and I'm not rich so I didn't want to move to a country where the locals live in abject poverty while I live in comparative
Besides, screw the USA, my community is where "it's at", because that's where I am...so in a sense we're not leaving simply because our
"country" really needs us now, even if they don't know it or show it.
I live in Portland, OR in a multi-ethnic neighborhood, most of my family is out of state or out of the country, and I wasn't born here, but have
lived here for the last three decades. Since 911 and my vocal outrage, my list of family and friends who keep in touch has dwindled, which made it
easier for me to convince myself to say "#$%^-it!" and bolt the country. My wife wasn't as keen as I but would have complied had it happened.
I fantasized about Costa Rica and other warmer locales but a cave in Alaska would be the place I'd be if I was single. I have no kids and I grew up
there, and know the climate, how to build a fire with wet wood, dress game, trap, etc. I'm not as spry, but I've got guile, at least so I told
myself. So in preparation for moving off grid, we bought a "fixer"in Portland, and have spent the last 9 years remodeling from the grounds-in and
the ground-up with the intent of selling and becoming a hunter-gatherer\farmer who happens to telecommute in the IT industry.
We intend to buy a piece of property (I say 40 acres, she says 5) and attempt to use the materials on the land to build the house from scratch. We
can live in a yurt for the few years I figure we'll need for me to build the house. I can still telecommute while I do that. We'll probably settle
in Southern Washington, possibly off grid as long as there's a nearby community...don't want to be too far out.
But what if we can't sell? What if the market completely craps out and we have to stay in suburbia, in an area that would be prime pickins' for
fast-food starved, heavily armed, zombie cannibal locals?
Well, first of all, if the SHTF, I don't see us eating each other. I got on the Mad Max bandwagon for a while too, I was sure that food riots were
going to be sweeping the south after the Gulf oil volcano, but I no longer buy into that hype. What I see if the SHTF, barring a nuclear holocaust is
folks will come together, with neighborhood watches expanding into neighborhood garbage services, ambulances, bus service, etc. until service is
Secondly, I need to do something to help; not just "get mine" and screw the rest, because that's what got us here to begin with.
So if we don't make it to a new life on a farm, we'll hunker down here but either way we're going to collaborate with our neighbors, not eat them.
Darwinism is so 19th century, don't you think?
Originally posted by amazing
5. New Zealand/Australia-don't really seem like good options
Bugger, dont have the map right now... But it shows the globe. Top and Bottom are getting increasingly colder. Australia is right in the middle.
I'm going to just take a stab in the dark here - but i believe its much easier to live/survive off the grid when you're not surrounded in snow
Not to mention, that also gives you all of winter to continue growing crops, as - hey hey! no snow!
You can pay ALL your'e bills in cash. You're never told to go away or "sorry we dont accept notes above $50" becuase suprisingly, plastic money
is a hell of alot harder to forge than paper.
Alltho Australia can be taken more as a "place to go when SHTF" - its also realy easy to live off the grid. Just dont ever get a drivers lisence
picture taken here - the new cameras take 3d map of you're face to co-enside with the police's camera network, as i believe they're realy ramping
up in the deployment of facial recog cameras as of late.
Its all what you are used to.
I'm in nice Canada half mediteranian half lake tahoe
winter means ice fishing
The food is nicely preserved in winter if you have a bit of a clue regarding what to eat and how.
Go with what you know before trouble starts
get away from the city.
I realise I was presenting worst case scenario with the canabalism, but look at downed airliners in the winter mountains and arctic expeditions in the
how long did they last?
Civilization is a thin veneer.
There are 101 Nuklear reactors plus medical stuff all over the US, plus who knows what toxic wastes stored in some suprising places, I guess it comes
down to how they are handled just before the shtf.
edit on 31-1-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)
edit on 31-1-2011 by Danbones because: ps norway sounded nice....but
i like snow.
Yeah, I know about the airliner crashes and folks resorting to cannibalism; I also know some refused and eventually died...and I have given it much
thought. I have decided that I am only willing to do such things if there's more than just a chance of survival, but there must be a chance of
having a decent quality of life, meaning food water and shelter. If I have to compete for such things to the point of fearing my neighbors will eat
me if I don't eat them first, well, I'd probably be eaten.
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