When will we stop being our own worst enemy?

Those that know me know my stubborn and slightly rude manner....it's the way I come across on the internet, I swear if we met in a bar over a few beers no matter what our viewpoints we would be having a blast! But I have to ask, when will we, as a community, stop being our own worst enemy? As I sit here and read the threads on this board, I see on thing in common....and that is the quest for answers and the truth. But the other thing I see in common.....is complete and utter nonsense. And I do mean nonsense! I know the whole UFO thing is highly speculative, but I think many use that as an excuse to make complete asses out of the subject (and themselves). It's like anyone can claim "diplomatic immunity" so to speak and get away with saying anything...and worse yet there are many who seem to back them up without so much as...never mind...anyway....

This board is a microcosm of all things that contribute to this subject being a laughable joke (and also to some things that allow a few of us to take it seriously...a good thing I might add). If you step back and seriously read the thread titles along with the first page of replies.....well, I wouldn't blame you for shaking your head and walking away.

The thing is, being infiltrated with so much complete and utter ignorance combined with nonsense, we scare off the very people we want here. I mean, when someone who may have information to share (in a manner that is much harder to dispute than a cheesy personal account of blurry youtube video of lights) does a little poking around this subject, and they do what any sane person would do (walk away..well, maybe run, lol) how long do you think it takes them to seriously take another peek back in? Years, I bet. And when they eventually do...what do they find? They find that the subject has devolved rather than evolved.

So I ask, out of all honesty, when will we stop being our own worst enemy? Serious question, I am curious what you all think.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


When will you stop regurgitating the same tired old speech?

You think most material in the UFO 'field' is nonsense, so why not get out of UFO research and get involved in something that you find more interesting and worthwhile?

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


one question , did u watch lethal weapon 2 last night
????

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Those that know me know my stubborn and slightly rude manner....it's the way I come across on the internet, I swear if we met in a bar over a few beers no matter what our viewpoints we would be having a blast! But I have to ask, when will we, as a community, stop being our own worst enemy? As I sit here and read the threads on this board, I see on thing in common....and that is the quest for answers and the truth. But the other thing I see in common.....is complete and utter nonsense. And I do mean nonsense! I know the whole UFO thing is highly speculative, but I think many use that as an excuse to make complete asses out of the subject (and themselves). It's like anyone can claim "diplomatic immunity" so to speak and get away with saying anything...and worse yet there are many who seem to back them up without so much as...never mind...anyway....

This board is a microcosm of all things that contribute to this subject being a laughable joke (and also to some things that allow a few of us to take it seriously...a good thing I might add). If you step back and seriously read the thread titles along with the first page of replies.....well, I wouldn't blame you for shaking your head and walking away.

The thing is, being infiltrated with so much complete and utter ignorance combined with nonsense, we scare off the very people we want here. I mean, when someone who may have information to share (in a manner that is much harder to dispute than a cheesy personal account of blurry youtube video of lights) does a little poking around this subject, and they do what any sane person would do (walk away..well, maybe run, lol) how long do you think it takes them to seriously take another peek back in? Years, I bet. And when they eventually do...what do they find? They find that the subject has devolved rather than evolved.

So I ask, out of all honesty, when will we stop being out own worst enemy? Serious question, I am curious what you all think.

I honestly believe that the wealth of information here and the sheer quantities of people interested in many subjects have a tendancy to become bored with whatever topic they are usually dealing with and decide to topic jump for fun. Some of those people may find it fun for themselves to rudely say what they want depending on how they feel at that time. Some people give good criticisim some not so good. Or you see people who get sick and tired of the junk that does appear on this site and get a tad agressive toward those that believe they have found something that they think people should see because they think its cool. Then there are those people that post some really good evidence and have a good argument of what they have photographed and they get ripped to shreds and called liars or have been told its photoshopped or enhanced incorrectly or told that they need to use a better camera or make difficult requests like next time you should use a tripod or a electronic shutter release or put paper in front of the lense or change shutter speed or get a professional to take them for you or well as you see the list can go on and on. What im getting at is yes you are right there is a lack of good content but those that do try to provide it get torn apart.

reply to post by cupocoffee

When will you stop regurgitating the same tired old speech?

I am sorry your confusing "tired old" with something called consistency. If you think the things I am saying have no merit, then tell me, why can't you be taken seriously right now? Is it because of "the man" hiding the truth, or the actions of folks like yourself that condemn us? Seriously ponder that before answering....

Yeah, I have consistently said the same thing for years and years....having been around the block a time or two in this hobby. And I have a hard time thinking that anybody who has been around for as long as I have....and can use common sense, doesn't lean the same direction as me.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts
I think the subject has always been a circus, it's probably what attracts so many different people. It had as much silliness per capita (probably) in the 50s and 60s as it does now.

In terms of 'we,' is there a 'we?' Is this a community or collection of like-minded people? I see it more like following football. We might all like the game, but follow our own teams and hate some of the others. United we ain't lol

It's just the same if you follow any of the UFO lists. The UFO researchers disagree with each other every other day and get into pretty angry arguments. If there's one feature in this subject, it's probably 'disagreement.'

In the thread, you mention having been 'round the block.' So have I and while it's jaw-dropping to see some of the stuff people believe, it's part of their journey 'round the block.' A lot of members are new to the game and can even be very young, they deserve the same freedom to learn from their mistakes as we've had. I fall short of this ideal sometimes, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Give the guys a chance, IGF.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I am sorry your confusing "tired old" with something called consistency.

Yes, you are very consistent. You very consistently insult the intelligence of others in the UFO forum, and you very consistently manage to do it within the bounds of the T&C and get away with it.

You are very skilled at what you do so in that sense I guess you are worthy of respect, even though your posts are so insulting

If you think the things I am saying have no merit, then tell me, why can't you be taken seriously right now?

I can't?

Is it because of "the man" hiding the truth, or the actions of folks like yourself that condemn us? Seriously ponder that before answering....

What? Condemn you? Who am I condemning? And how?

Yeah, I have consistently said the same thing for years and years....having been around the block a time or two in this hobby. And I have a hard time thinking that anybody who has been around for as long as I have....and can use common sense, doesn't lean the same direction as me.

Yes, you assume everyone else thinks the same way as you, but that's not a very logical assumption is it?

Originally posted by cupocoffee
reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

 

When will you stop regurgitating the same tired old speech?

You think most material in the UFO 'field' is nonsense, so why not get out of UFO research and get involved in something that you find more interesting and worthwhile?

Exactly

I use to take the subject as life or death, I use to be a bit intolerant of others approach to the subject like IgnoreThe Fatcs. I just drove myself nuts and it dawned on me that I will never absolutely know the entire truth or get to the bottom of the UFO Alien subject. I guess i have gone as far as i can in researching to a certain point then conclude if there is or there not anything to this. So im comfortable enough to say that there is an intelligence visiting us and am weary to say if it is Alien yet i know this is real and that is good enough for me. Now i just try to have fun and am still learning a little here and there but i know that people are entitled to believe and think what they want and it should not matter to me or IgnoreTheFacts. Being over bearing and intolerant of others does as much a disservice as spreading disinformation and hoaxing. I could tell them an air plane is an air plane and they would insist it was a Alien Craft. Waste of my time.


While some of the new agers get on my nerves with some of the BS they put out there you gotta laugh at them and take it in stride. This is not a war and no matter how hard you try to sway ones belief or disbelief you are wasting your time. Every person has a choice and has to do the work themselves. Only they can find what they think or know is truth. If i came to the conclusion there was nothing to this subject then I would not be here I would be engaging another topic that i found worthy of investigation. So projecting Disbelief and imposing your lack of belief or "proof" is nothing more then a fart in the wind.


If you have concluded that this subject is all a fabrication of Human imagination then all I have to say is then there is nothing for you to say then why bother? I know there are people here that REALLY care what you believe and think, they make that quite obvious. They make it clear that they think everything is hog wash. I just have to ask why?

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


I think I understand what you mean. Personaly I come from a position of believing that there is more to be known on the subject of UFO and Extra terrestrial life, than the public are made aware of, and that there are very heavily buried secrets surrounding that issue. However, I understand and accept that this position is one that I hold despite a lack of concrete evidence.
My position is further erroded by the fact that large swathes of people who are also believers , happen to be first and foremost a bunch of hippy alien cultists, with all the scientific awareness of a boiled sausage. Even were they to come across proof, good solid physical evidence of something , they would likely just hand out pamphlets about the comming mystic space monkey arrival and annexing of our planet under peaceable circumstances, and so doing make a mockery of the entire investigative feild.
My attitude, is that regardless of my own beliefs, as a man of science (or at least a man who knows and respects its value in investigation) I cannot point to any one thing that has occured , or any one lump of evidence and say "this is definitive. There are aliens, and this is part of thier ship, this is where they are from, this is how thier psionic communication works, and this is how they pee." .
I can point to those in the scientific community who do not doubt the possibility of alien life because of probability, nor can I discount entirely those who detract from that position for reasons of bad math, or a lack of suggestive data. I can remind people about how little of the universe we can truely be said to know about in any depth whatsoever, and the fact that extremophile lifeforms are cropping up in the most unusual places, and also the fact that NASA now believes that the microbes it found on mars rock, are actualy of martian origin rather than terran. I can also remind people that mankinds arrogance and assumption of his supremacy, his rarity and his standing alone amongst beasts was responsible for some pretty lousy assumptions in the early days of science, arguments over which , saw men persecuted on the basis of arguing with religion, and punished severely , even though thier scientific studies were proven later to be right on the money.
Now we have a situation where the zealots have taken over the feild, with advocates of everyone from Alex "The Liar" Collier's to Robbie Williams's view on the topic clamouring for the attention of the world. Everyone who sees this from the outside, tars all of us with the same sickening brush of utter foolishness and zealotry. Admittedly, this in itself is ignorance, since there are some seriously smart folks amongst the believers on this planet, and although they do not speak out with such fervour and colourful words, or messeges of hope as thier more fanatical counterparts, they concentrate on working hard, researching points and places in history which offer investigators in the feild some real insight into the subject.
It would be difficult for these hardy amateurs to get professional assistance with this enterprise, specificaly because the most serious brains the world has ever seen , will refuse to involve themselves with the subject because the feild is populated to a huge degree with lackwitted dull eyed cultists and finding the diamond core of intellect inside the core of the community, is like penetrating the gaseous , high presure layers of Jupiter, just to arrive at the core. Sure theres some amazing data to record there , but along the way you will be crushed by the presure, battered by the storms, and corroded by the dangerous chemical soup of ignorance, and the trip cannot be considered worth the while till either effective armour is developed against all three of those dangers, or the danger lessens. Like the danger of collecting data direct from the centre of Jupiter, the dangers of hard scientists approaching the subject of UFO investigation are not lessening . If anything one is more open to ridicule now than ever before, if only because more folks are aware of the existance of groups of believers, rather than the whole idea being new to folks. Now every body has an opinion.
I utterly agree, that if anything is to change, and the big brains of our time are to get to work on this subject, we need more credibility as a movement, and less robe wearing psuedo religious BS in the ranks of believers and investigators, we need to throw all the channelers under a truck and get to real work in order to solve the riddle, and without doing that, we will never get out from under the shadow which the whole field sits squarely under.

This thread should be moved to the philosophy section, but I can answer.

We are just human in nature, the only way to become no enemy of ourselves is if we are a yogi who sits by himself all day in a trance, he will learn to catch his thoughts from being small enemies, he will just sit there with a smile on his face all day, eating little, and drinking water. Even the best men of the world go out to a far environment for a period of time to stop everything they are living for, and it is a huge difficult task to really understand everything and completely overcome the enemy of our mind. Truly if we do this we are only going to reflect it to each other.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

 

My position is further erroded by the fact that large swathes of people who are also believers , happen to be first and foremost a bunch of hippy alien cultists, with all the scientific awareness of a boiled sausage. .

Never doubt the integrity of the boiled sausage!

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


I gave you a flag because no matter what you say we are all gods children and I believe your in a dark place at the moment and need a little light to guide you.

God bless

reply to post by torsion


You have opened my eyes Torsion. I thought they were people, but now I realise the worshipers of the star gods ARE sausages! Thank you for the information Torsion, made my day !

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


Ignorethefacts, you mention in this post that you believe some UFO cases to be 'diamonds in the rough' - can I ask you what those cases are and why you think the UFO subject deserves serious scientific scrutiny?

Cheers.

reply to post by cupocoffee


If you don't see the point IgnoreTheFacts is making, then you're simply part of the problem.

Before I joined this site, I lurked here for a long time because of the intriguing material and gifted minds. Since I've joined, it's been steadily going downhill. I don't know if ATS' surge in popularity is to blame or if the better posters have simply moved on, but it's quite off-putting to come here and see some of the nonsense that gets passed off as "1089% irrefutable pr00f of ET" over, and over, and over, and over again.

The sad thing about the field of research into UFO's and USO's and the new found UGO's (Unidentified ground objects) is the fact there have been many fallacious and unbacked claims to dilute the field of being able to do any proper research. Multiple source confirmation goes out the window when you take everything at face value without researching and understanding combined. It is unfortunate cause so many discovers in recent years have been completely exciting and cast aside because it has those acronyms pinned to it. I hope that in the future this can change but with the invention of the internet and increase in electronic communication, and advances in graphic design it is getting harder and harder to do any proper research of any kind.

reply to post by Kandinsky


There's only so many times you can have your critical thinking ability attacked for "not being open minded" or "spiritually advanced" before your eyes glaze over and you're spending more time on the Space Exploration board.

It's funny, because I'm not even technically skeptical.

I believe in UFOs and I believe alien beings are out there. What I don't believe is that every blip of light in the night sky is an alien star destroyer or that aliens are waiting for humans to become "spiritually enlightened" before making contact.

In trying to reduce the hostility, all I simply ask is that people understand that saying:

"I believe in aliens! They're all around us and you just need to open your mind!"

does not warrant eliminating critical thinking, logic, and reason from your intellectual pallet.

Originally posted by SaosinEngaged
If you don't see the point IgnoreTheFacts is making, then you're simply part of the problem.

ITF has been making that same point for years, in fact nearly all of his posts are just the same idea repeated over and over 1000 different ways. Do we really need yet another thread that's just the same old idea repeated yet again?

I have observed many people doing this, making these threads where they basically say "stop posting such stupid crap people!", do you really think doing that is going to change anything?

Why not just let people post whatever they want, which is supposed to be the whole point of this site?

Before I joined this site, I lurked here for a long time because of the intriguing material and gifted minds. Since I've joined, it's been steadily going downhill. I don't know if ATS' surge in popularity is to blame or if the better posters have simply moved on, but it's quite off-putting to come here and see some of the nonsense that gets passed off as "1089% irrefutable pr00f of ET" over, and over, and over, and over again.

I know a guy in real life who will look me right in the eye and tell me with 100% seriousness that years ago he was brought aboard a ship and he mated with an extraterrestrial woman, and he has a couple of half-Terran, half-ET kids out there in the galaxy somewhere.

This man does not try to sell books or make money from his story, and as far as I can tell he has no reason to lie or spread disinformation. This is just something he told me in a private conversation.

Now ITF and people like him will probably dismiss this man outright, "ugh stop talking about such stupid nonsense. You're making us all look bad and ruining 'Ufology'. "

But what if this man is telling the truth? What if there are ET people out there who are sexually compatible with us?

See the dilemma?

As far as I'm concerned, if you're unwilling to even consider "way out there" concepts such as this, then UFO research is not for you!

Those whose minds are shut should simply move on to some other hobby or research - instead of constantly complaining about what others are posting and calling people stupid....

reply to post by cupocoffee


If ITF wants to make this point until his fingers drop off his hands hes welcome to, and Im right along with him. Until the cultists and starchild worshipers die in car wrecks, or drink themselves into silent death, we need all the voice of reason we can muster to battle the psychological pollution that these zealots spread , muddying the already difficult to navigate waters of the field of UFO research.
We need spiritualism to back the hell off, and stop trying to get involved with what should be a purely scientific process. Only a total lackwit would entrust a spiritualist with long term cancer care, and its no different with UFO and ET. If you want it done right, be patient and trust the scientific method.