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Report: Women should be allowed to serve in combat

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posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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There are things that women can do that men simply can't and vice versa. But to think that women should be able to serve in combat is simply ludicrous. Men have a lot more muscle mass that lets them carry out things that women can't. While both can excel in cardio activities men have more muscle capacity to hold more weight, hold tougher weapons, and are tougher in close combat situations.

Some women can do those things as well but you have to be realistic. Women simply don't have the same physical strength and endurance needed to excel. If you think women have what it takes than let them pull the exact same training as the men. That includes the weight training, running miles with a 40-60lb bag, and weapon accuracy. If they can pull that then my hats off to them and you can join the men.




posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


As a former soldier. (Male)... I would have to disagree with you in part of your statement.
Having served with some dudes that were so small as to be borderline dwarf. In other cases there were some ectomorphic guys who probably weighed 125 soaking wet and probably not over 153 cm tall.

Conversely I have seen women those who typically find themselves somehow attached to a line unit are by and large..........large girls. There was this one girl named Benson who could do squats with me on her back....Dont ask me how I know. LOL

She was more than capable. Anywayyyyyyyy....

Though I have seen more females fall out of road marches, and be unable to carry their equipment then men and on exactly 4 separate occasions I saw women actually crying and lamenting while doing it, and one was in my opinion faking an asthma attack to stop.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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Double post. ooopps
edit on 16-1-2011 by snowen20 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


I too am a former 11 Bravo, and I can agree with you on the fact that women in charge of large groups of guys can go down hill pretty quick regardless of how bad ass and aggressive she may be. I noticed while I served that often times when a women was in charge that they had to over compensate for the fact they were a woman by being "extra" harsh if you will. This of course meant little or nothing to us male soldiers because we looked at it as almost a game. We found ourselves mumbling and talking crap and generally losing discipline and our military bearing when we would not have done so had a man tasked us out to something instead.

That being said, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that a woman can effectively fight in combat. There are numerous historical occurrences of women whupping backside effectively. My problem is the men. This view may not be shared with everyone but as a man, I think we have an instinctual desire to protect females. I know I do.
I once had this female lieutenant who was still in training, we were having an exercise and she was taken out by a sniper. Funny thing is so were about 3 other guys including a captain. Who did all the guys run to? The Chick of course. Go figure! lol All I can say was thank God it was only training.

Women in combat are a distraction to men. Especially younger men who have barely escaped puberty by the time they join the military. Like I said it's not the women that are a problem it's us men, naturally. I have nothing against all female combat units however. But mixing them up will negatively effect the combat effectiveness of the military in my opinion.
edit on 16-1-2011 by snowen20 because: (no reason given)


Well if I were Female and was the commander of your unit.. your damn right I would be harsher. If in combat I would also have you shot. for dereliction of duty yes you can be killed for it in times of war. I agree with it.. and believe it would do morons like you some good..

to finally have to deal with the truth.. its the 21 century women are equal now.. Grow up. if Men would stop treating them like dolls and DO their damn job. Women could do 11bravo no problem. Men need to grow up and quite the pissing contest women could do it and do a better job.. the military isn't made up of 6'5 men who look like the terminator.. just like women they range I've seen men that would make some women I know look like men by the way they act.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
There are things that women can do that men simply can't and vice versa. But to think that women should be able to serve in combat is simply ludicrous. Men have a lot more muscle mass that lets them carry out things that women can't. While both can excel in cardio activities men have more muscle capacity to hold more weight, hold tougher weapons, and are tougher in close combat situations.

Some women can do those things as well but you have to be realistic. Women simply don't have the same physical strength and endurance needed to excel. If you think women have what it takes than let them pull the exact same training as the men. That includes the weight training, running miles with a 40-60lb bag, and weapon accuracy. If they can pull that then my hats off to them and you can join the men.


You contradict yourself:


..to think that women should be able to serve in combat is simply ludicrous.



If they can pull that then my hats off to them and you can join the men.


The first statement says that women should not be able to serve in combat.
The second statement says that qualified women should be allowed to.

However, if the policy is to exclude women, then even those who are qualified (by your standards) will be excluded.

Make up your mind.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 


Two things.

1. Get over yourself you sound utterly ridiculous.

2. Are you sure your not female cause you sure read like one.

If you want to wave the banner of the 21st century proudly overhead like that will somehow change things, knock yourself out hero. But guess what?...Things will never change. so ....yeah.. take that.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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Double Post.
You have to love 3rd world country internet.
edit on 16-1-2011 by snowen20 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:27 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


I wish they would have tried to reprimand me for that... Luckily at that job you signed that you could physically perform your job duties.. I would have told them if they expect me to do double the work then I expect double the pay... And I would have demanded that she be fired for not doing her job.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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To the people saying that it's just nature and science, that women just aren't as physically capable, let the testing decide that. You can't label an entire group as unable. If the woman can't qualify then she is out, but what is wrong with letting her try? I'm sure there are men who can't qualify as well.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by Reaper2137
 


Two things.

1. Get over yourself you sound utterly ridiculous.

2. Are you sure your not female cause you sure read like one.

If you want to wave the banner of the 21st century proudly overhead like that will somehow change things, knock yourself out hero. But guess what?...Things will never change. so ....yeah.. take that.


I sound utterly Ridiculous? I never had the problems you claim when you were in the army. its people like you that make progress that much harder.. as for the best way to deal with people like you? well that is easy you can even look it up I'll help..

§ 892. Art. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation
Any person subject to this chapter who—
...
(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Punishment can include sanctions up to and including the death penalty (in times of war). Outside of wartime, the maximum punishment allowed is a Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year (10 years for service members receiving special pay under 37 USC 310[3]).[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

and as for your B.S of it will never change? it will change.. guys like you lost already you have gays in the army now.. and soon you will have lady's in combat.. lol...



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


I'm all for this, that is, if the woman WANTS to fight. She should be allowed and not shown any special treatment for having a different gender. This is 2011 dammit.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 


reply to post by Reaper2137
 


Oh gee you got me! Yada yada yada......Make it stick.

Let me tell you there were these wonderful losers in the army popping hot for coke on 3 separate occasions. On another occasion a private attacked the captain with a fold out pocket knife ( didn't cut him just threatened.)
Another private went AWOL for 4 months during a time of war.

The two drug addicts what did they get? 45 and 45.. that's it.
The crazy private with the knife? He got a counseling statement and a week long stay at an RR clinic.
The AWOL private..............A counseling statement.

At no time did anyone ever whine about UCMJ beyond that. Because while we all bitched and complained and occasionally broke from what you see as the divine book of military law and order, people do ridiculous things when stressed.
So now that you are so inline with having me shot when you don't even know me...why should I take anything you say seriously?
You are a dime a dozen, and if you were ever in the military you probably some blowhard Drill instructor still on the trail, though he would know better. or A blow hard Officer working in headquarters. So like I initially said... Get over yourself.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by Reaper2137
 


reply to post by Reaper2137
 


Oh gee you got me! Yada yada yada......Make it stick.

Let me tell you there were these wonderful losers in the army popping hot for coke on 3 separate occasions. On another occasion a private attacked the captain with a fold out pocket knife ( didn't cut him just threatened.)
Another private went AWOL for 4 months during a time of war.

The two drug addicts what did they get? 45 and 45.. that's it.
The crazy private with the knife? He got a counseling statement and a week long stay at an RR clinic.
The AWOL private..............A counseling statement.

At no time did anyone ever whine about UCMJ beyond that. Because while we all bitched and complained and occasionally broke from what you see as the divine book of military law and order, people do ridiculous things when stressed.
So now that you are so inline with having me shot when you don't even know me...why should I take anything you say seriously?
You are a dime a dozen, and if you were ever in the military you probably some blowhard Drill instructor still on the trail, though he would know better. or A blow hard Officer working in headquarters. So like I initially said... Get over yourself.


I was 31 Bravo lol.. so yeah law to me is just that the law. I served time in iraq just like you but with a well disciplined unit and we had a female commander at that time. so every thing you said happen I believe happened as you said. I think its a cop out to say that it could only happen to a women I've seen the same things happen to male commanders..

We would have a better military overall if people would DO their own damn job follow orders and not worry about the gays or women. they have every right to be there just as you do. You need to get over your self.
my 2nd tour was 31bravo working 11bravo job. so no I'm not an Officer or a Drill instructor I did just what you did.

I wasn't arrogant or Sexist like you either I am over my self. I believe that you have to be selfless as well as have an open mind some thing you obviously lack I also think the Military as a whole needs to not down play or dumb down our training or our rules and regs. So people like you can join were better off with out you. thanks for your service even as sub standard as it was.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:16 AM
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Should a WW3 occur, women will serve in war by making bullet shells, assembling weaponry, and organizing uniforms for the men who go on into battle...just like in WW1 & WW2.

However, if women went to war to fight, well, there will definitely be a bit of rivalry between both sexes. Question is, do women have the eyes to see blood & guts, witness torture, and handle an AK47 assault rifle? If yes, you're good to go =)



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 


Listen reaper.. here's the deal okay.

Bear with this next sentence if you can it's nuts!

I'm not sexist, Per se. or I don't know maybe I am unconsciously. All I know Is I do find women beautiful and I don't want them to be put into a position that could harm them. That doesn't mean I'm right at all, I admit that!

Anyway...

Its like I said it's merely my opinion, I think every woman or gay person or anyone has the right to serve and serve to the fullest extent the desire. Even if that means direct line of fire combat.

I will admit, we had kind of a screwy unit one of many and we were certainly working out the kinks. I complained about the lack of discipline more times than I can count and got nowhere, only told to stop rocking the damn boat.

When I was in AIT long ago there was this woman Drill Instructor that baby sat us for a few hours, that's one of those occasions when rowdy teens act stupid and that's what I was referring to. When I became a squad leader you better believe I was kicking ass whenever a superior wasn't obeyed woman or not. But I can only push so hard ya know, before I'm spinning my wheels with people. I know you probably hate me, or maybe you just feel sorry for my pathetic line of thinking, I'm sorry.
Personally I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong in fact when I posted my line of thought was to complement females for what they can do in the military not degrade. I thought made it clear that I saw as many men falling out as women and I knew women that could out shoot and out perform many guys. Though none were in my unit.
I know that the times are supposed to change but human chemistry doesn't, and until we find a way to balance that out I "personally" don't see how we can effectively fight as a unit without getting distracted.
I personally think an all female combat unit would be pretty cool. and probably function better than an all male combat unit at least have better discipline...

I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with you reaper, I don't like folks who don't know me talking about having me shot when I wasn't the particular problem in the scenario. Know what I mean, I kind of take that seriously.
Also I wanna make it clear that my issue isn't that women shouldn't fight in combat...No no no...I just don't think they should necessarily fight along with men. not right now anyway.
I do believe whole heatedly that they are quite capable of performing their tasks and drills like any man in combat.
Sorry if you got a problem with me, or utterly disagree. Ill say this though, if I said anything that was offensive to you personally let me apologize. Perhaps we can agree on other things at other times.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
People need to wake up and smell reality rather than just try to fit in with the politically correct group

Report: Women at War Suffering More Mental Health Conditions Than Men


A new study says female military members returning from Afghanistan and Iraq are more likely to suffer from mental health conditions than their male counterparts.

In June 2009, the VA reported almost 20,000 female military veterans from both Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts had been diagnosed with some form of mental disorder, including nearly 8,500 women diagnosed specifically with PTSD.

www.wtvr.com...


The other side of the coin though is that women suffer from more mental health problems whether they go to war or not.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by Reaper2137
 


Listen reaper.. here's the deal okay.

Bear with this next sentence if you can it's nuts!

I'm not sexist, Per se. or I don't know maybe I am unconsciously. All I know Is I do find women beautiful and I don't want them to be put into a position that could harm them. That doesn't mean I'm right at all, I admit that!

Anyway...

Its like I said it's merely my opinion, I think every woman or gay person or anyone has the right to serve and serve to the fullest extent the desire. Even if that means direct line of fire combat.

I will admit, we had kind of a screwy unit one of many and we were certainly working out the kinks. I complained about the lack of discipline more times than I can count and got nowhere, only told to stop rocking the damn boat.

When I was in AIT long ago there was this woman Drill Instructor that baby sat us for a few hours, that's one of those occasions when rowdy teens act stupid and that's what I was referring to. When I became a squad leader you better believe I was kicking ass whenever a superior wasn't obeyed woman or not. But I can only push so hard ya know, before I'm spinning my wheels with people. I know you probably hate me, or maybe you just feel sorry for my pathetic line of thinking, I'm sorry.
Personally I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong in fact when I posted my line of thought was to complement females for what they can do in the military not degrade. I thought made it clear that I saw as many men falling out as women and I knew women that could out shoot and out perform many guys. Though none were in my unit.
I know that the times are supposed to change but human chemistry doesn't, and until we find a way to balance that out I "personally" don't see how we can effectively fight as a unit without getting distracted.
I personally think an all female combat unit would be pretty cool. and probably function better than an all male combat unit at least have better discipline...

I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with you reaper, I don't like folks who don't know me talking about having me shot when I wasn't the particular problem in the scenario. Know what I mean, I kind of take that seriously.
Also I wanna make it clear that my issue isn't that women shouldn't fight in combat...No no no...I just don't think they should necessarily fight along with men. not right now anyway.
I do believe whole heatedly that they are quite capable of performing their tasks and drills like any man in combat.
Sorry if you got a problem with me, or utterly disagree. Ill say this though, if I said anything that was offensive to you personally let me apologize. Perhaps we can agree on other things at other times.


Holly hell.. I agree with that and I must have just misread what you meaning and for that I'm sorry. I do have to say that I'm surprised most people will attack some one by saying they weren't in the military and now that you cleared up your story it make sense. as an MP I had to deal with a lot of crap from males and females. Also I think your right at first they should be in female only units until we can slowly integrate the units.

I respect you a hell of a-lot more than your last few posts I think we can agree on some things. I'm sorry as well I shouldn't have the whole shoot you thing. I just think that we need to up our rules not lower them. I think that is costing more lives than any thing else.

and I also say thanks for your service it wasn't sub- standard



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:37 AM
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I'm a woman and I'm against it. I have two sons and a daughter and I don't want any of 'em in combat, particuarly my daughter. I was in the Air Force at horrble Whiteman AFB in stupid Knobknoster , Missouri. Maybe that's why.
I don't know if I could have killed, really I don't. I might have not been able to follow through with the actual killing, especially if I was in an emotional PMS stage. Maybe I wasn't built that way. I could probably kill someone defending my kids/loved onesm but a so-called enemy? Not unless they were trying to kill me maybe. Our daughters are special, life givers and I can't fathom putting them in danger. I suppose the military is getting desperare for disposable warriors for they have their wars to fight. I might sound old-fashioned but for me this is an emotional issue. Thank you for this thread and the time/effort you put into it.



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by Reaper2137
 


Cool, Thanks.

I think it's such a touchy topic that people typically come at each other with knives in both hands when dealing with each other. I know I do my fair share of boasting when it comes to military matters. Something I try to keep in check but I was a proud soldier so it's hard sometimes know what I mean?

By the way, the female i mentioned that could do squats with me on her back. yeah, she was an MP. LOL.
Glad we could clear up our differences though. Ill try to take my time when replying posts from now on instead of going balls to the wall with people. It will be in my best interest.

God I miss the Army sometimes!



posted on Jan, 16 2011 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by stealthXninja
reply to post by DaWhiz
 


Your post gave me a good laugh. I quoted that same post earlier, it was a little extreme for sure.


Thank you, thank you.
I felt the need for levity instead of confrontational banter.
I feel the best person for the job should do the job.
Guess I'm getting old.



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