Jared Lee Loughner is INNOCENT!!

reply to post by harrytuttle


I dont really care if he is innocent or guilty. doesnt matter to me. thats not the point.

the point is, he deserves a fair trial.

Thats it.

reply to post by harrytuttle


You keep saying that evidence needs to be provided to prove he's innocent.

Wrong!

Evidence needs to be provided proving he is guilty!

He is innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around!

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

I dont really care if he is innocent or guilty. doesnt matter to me. thats not the point.

the point is, he deserves a fair trial.

Thats it.

Exactly.

It's his Natural Right as a Human being in our society.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
In order for this JLL guy to be innocent, he needs to be either:

A) innocent by reason of insanity

OR

B) the patsy of a conspiracy theory

And you're saying it's more likely that over 30 bullets were pumped into 10 people with 1 pistol in a few seconds by a kid with no documented or even anecdotal evidence he has any knowledge of guns or how to operate them? I find it more likely that, given politicians were attacks, that this was a political assassination, well-funded, well-planned and well-executed by a TEAM of assassins, not some kid who was thrown out of junior college for being "creepy".

reply to post by MessOnTheFED!


Why wast emoney on the case? Simple, YOU DONT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY.

There could be ALOT more to this case than meeets the eye, but since a lot of people feel so much hatred towards him, they are willing to throw away any and all other alternatives in this case.
NOBODY knows, and until a full investigation has been done, nobody can claim that they do.

Kill first, ask questions later right?

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
To the OP: shame on you for even thinking about making this thread. How many people have to whitness a crime to validate it in your mind? Do we not give credence to anything that happened before the advent of cameras and video recorders now?

I don't think anyone has doubted that this crime took place, I for one have simply suggested that instead of "lone nut", there are much more likely possibilities, that the police are known and consummate liars and that the media is a bunch of meat-gazing whores who will bend over and take it up the butt from government any day of the weak.

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

I dont really care if he is innocent or guilty. doesnt matter to me. thats not the point.

the point is, he deserves a fair trial.

Thats it.

Well DUH - of course the guy should get a fair trial, but this is ATS, NOT THE GRAND JURY!!!!

What is this, a law school discussion forum, or a conspiracy website? Let me check....OH YES, here it is:

AboveTopSecret.com is the Internet's largest and most popular discussion board community dedicated to the intelligent exchange of ideas and debate on a wide range of "alternative topics" such as conspiracies, UFO's, paranormal, secret societies, political scandals, new world order, terrorism, and dozens of related topics with a diverse mix of users from all over the world.

I don't see anything about ATS being an online Grand Jury Simulator.

I believe this is the website you are looking for.

Actually we are encouraged to debate the merits and pitfalls of law to great extent here.

And a cursory examination of past threads will reveal some very in depth well researched threads on legal matters.

reply to post by harrytuttle


actually, this very thread is about an individuals rights.

being a smart ass doesnt help your case very much either . =)

reply to post by PlautusSatire

Hey, if that's what you believe, that's great. I'm not going to knock you. If you believe he's innocent and the reason is because of a conspiracy that's cool with me. At least you are coming out and saying it.

The OP is apparently hiding behind his claim that he's saying NOTHING - just that the guy should get a fair trial. If that's the case, then I have no idea why he even started the thread.

He may as well start some threads with various CLICHE titles like:

"Don't Judge a Book by its COVER!!"

"Beauty is Only SKIN DEEP!!"

"I Wish the Planet to have WORLD PEACE!!"

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

being a smart ass doesnt help your case very much either . =)

Oh, the irony.

Are you not aware how much you are projecting here?

reply to post by MisterCrowley


Wow I just joined and wonder why I did. But to each his own. Good night! Thanks for the new thread though I see some people share your questions. Not that he did not do it but that he has the right to a fair trial. Although personally I think he read all of these topics and went crazy. I mean if I believed every thread and post than I would have to have a mental disorder. Sometimes people are way out there! But I appreciate the breaking news and the thoughtful exchange of ideas. Plus the humor in most of them!

reply to post by harrytuttle


grusefaba.

tw.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
Hey, if that's what you believe, that's great. I'm not going to knock you. If you believe he's innocent and the reason is because of a conspiracy that's cool with me. At least you are coming out and saying it.

What I believe is that his guilt is far from proven, in fact no evidence has been offered other than stories suggesting he is guilty, that the police are consummate and professional and constant liars, and that since some victims of this crime were politicians that it's probably a political assassination, well-funded, well-planned and well-executed by a TEAM of assassins, not some kid who got thrown out of junior college for being creepy, and that there must certainly exist many recordings of this event that have not been produced by anyone.

Apparently you think this was just a random shooting carried out by a lunatic who took a cab to the killing (no records on that either or testimony from a cab driver) and recorded by nobody despite the very commercial location and the presence of many noteworthy people at a publicity event. That's quite a coincidence theory you have there. Got any evidence besides hearsay to support it?

Originally posted by harrytuttle


The OP is apparently hiding behind his claim that he's saying NOTHING - just that the guy should get a fair trial. If that's the case, then I have no idea why he even started the thread.

I posted the thread because everyone has already made their mind up.

And I wanna change that. I want to show people how incorrect such an approach truly is.

I wanted to stand up against all of the incessant accusations and defend this man's rights to a fair trial.

I just see the constant automatic 100% assumption that he is guilty as a type of social crime, not only against your neighbors but against your own rights. And I would like to make a dent in that, if possible.

Jared Lee Loughner is a puppet set up by the government. We are all focusing an him, and he's making us tons of money, but I mean, what do you expect from the US government? With so much stuff going on in Greece right now, they need something to distract us and get us out of this depression.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

You keep saying that evidence needs to be provided to prove he's innocent.

Wrong!

Dude, first of all, I've NEVER said anything to that effect.

Secondly, this isn't a court room. You are not a lawyer. You are not a judge. This is not a trial.

In the real world we discuss NEWS EVENTS, we gather information about what we've heard, and at least here on ATS, we DISCUSS those events. Free discussion of events is not the same as holding a public trial.

In case that is too abstract for you, let's use a real world example, shall we?

Julian Assange - accused by the Swedish government of being a rapist. He deserves a fair trial, of course. But saying that is stating an obvious fact. It's so completely obvious that he deserves a fair trial that no one is debating that. What is being discussed are all the scenarios that are implied by the accusation, the implications of the public testimonies, the motivations of various parties to have falsely accused him, or even his possible guilt, whatever.

The point is, having the public discuss the implications of the ENTIRE scenario - not just the court case - and all the facets of the various eventualities is COMPLETELY fine and does NOT in any way shape or form infringe on Jared Lee Loughner's right to a fair trial.

How can he get a fair trial when everyone automatically assumes he is guilty?

Hell we didn't even need to see the evidence yet.

Guilty guilty guilty!

You don't see a problem with this illogical behavior?

Originally posted by harrytuttle

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

In order for this JLL guy to be innocent, he needs to be either:

A) innocent by reason of insanity

OR

B) the patsy of a conspiracy theory

Don't forget about jury nullification! They could always decide the charges are unjust.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
How can he get a fair trial when everyone automatically assumes he is guilty?

Hell we didn't even need to see the evidence yet.

Guilty guilty guilty!

You don't see a problem with this illogical behavior?

Who says everyone is saying he's guilty? The problem here is you are making a sweeping generalization. You have absolutely no idea what each individual thinks, yet you are JUDGING EVERYONE and coming to the decision that WE are ALL GUILTY of believing JLL is guilty.

Kind of hypocritical of you, don't you think?