Jared Lee Loughner is INNOCENT!!

I haven't seen one post yet about obvious evidence. Bullet slugs recovered, gun, matching ballistics, powder residue? I am just as much for a fair trial as anyone else. Unfortunately I've seen some pretty wild things said including blaming the parents. I even at one point thought there was someone else involved due to what I saw on Youtube. I believe there will be a fair trial and in a case as high profile as this there will be lots of investigation applied.

reply to post by MisterCrowley


I wouldn't call him a victim.

But I don't think he was sane.
Even remotely. You can read his alledged posts here, and look at some of the comments he has made.. The guy just completely had no grip on reality.. And in retrospect, I had seen about three of his threads from the past and generally decided to not post in them.. because he just isn't even coherent in his thoughts.

I won't feel sorry for him, but I think it would be wrong to execute him if he is proven mentally insane.

Originally posted by alpha chino
Actually it's funny you bring this up. Actually just what I'm remembering right now may be worthy of another thread.

I was watching an interview with Joe Zamudio. He is the man who tackled Laughner after the shooting and held him down until police came.

Zamudio said something interesting during the interview.

While he was describing how he saw JLL and tackled him, he mentioned that after he grabbed Laughner, People were yelling out, "No it's not him, it's another guy!"

In other words, people who were there yelled out that Zamudio had tackled the wrong guy, and the shooter was getting away.

This was straight out of Zamudio's mouth. I'm off to find the Youtube video of it. I forget what show I was watching at the time. It was on FNC. though...

I hadn't heard that, but it fits the hypothesis that he was just taken to the scene and after the shooting he was let loose to be the patsy. The quotes from the letter apparently found in his safe made reference to "my assassination", to me that means he thought he was going to be assassinated. That would explain why he fled from his house with only a single bag. He could have been easily apprehended, then turned loose after he witnessed the murders, he would have ran like hell to try to get away, the killer could walk calmly away. That's how a pro works, walk, don't run, throw the gun on the ground and walk away.

reply to post by Common Good


YES!!! absolutely what i wanted to say. If indeed he is the shooter, then yes, he deserves to be fully convicted and punished because no matter what the circumstances, if you take someones life, (especially that of a child), you need to be punished to the fullest extent possible in my opinion. But if someone has a mental illness that is not treated or that has not been stabilized, i feel that people should take that into consideration. MKULTRA, Project Monarch, i cant say, but whether thats true or not, mental illness is something that is not the persons fault and they cant help it that they have chemical imbalances. There are treatments for it, and then there are institutions for people who cannot be around the general public. If this guy was totally sane, i would say "Fry his ass", but if proven that he is mentally unstable i would feel "on the fence" as people say. The way i look at it is like this: If someone is drunk and they get in a car accident and accidentally kill someone, they are guilty. But when that person sobers up and realizes what they did, they will have to live with that the rest of their lives. Im sure there are several of us here that have gotten 3 sheets to the wind and did things we didnt remember and were ashamed of it later. Alot of us who have, also know that there have been alot of times we have put ourselves in the position that we COULD have killed someone, only to realize it later. All im saying is try to look at it from that standpoint. Im not saying he didnt do it, im just hoping people can be a little more open minded about this situation and look at if from other points of view.

reply to post by MisterCrowley


Sympathy from you for Jared Loughner?

Don't be hypocrit.

Ur profile pic says it all.Yeh,play along and turn him into a freak show.

reply to post by harrytuttle


Jared was not thinking straight. He is the victim of a messed up America. Why would you put to death someone that did not even know what they were doing? Someone with the mind of a child. Everyone knew Jared needed help.. Then when he snaps they act so shocked..

Originally posted by alpha chino
I was watching an interview with Joe Zamudio. He is the man who tackled Laughner after the shooting and held him down until police came.

Zamudio said something interesting during the interview.

While he was describing how he saw JLL and tackled him, he mentioned that after he grabbed Laughner, People were yelling out, "No it's not him, it's another guy!"

Do you care to provide a link with that anecdote? If that's the case, then provide a link and we can discuss, until then it could just be you remembering/hearing wrong.

reply to post by harrytuttle


really? I dont see any of that in his post.

What I see is.. "A man is innocent until proven guilty".
I saw nothing of that other stuff you mentioned.

I think a couple members in here need to re-read the post and read it without a personal bias.

its in plain english.

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Thank god this is not a democracy, cause if it was, he would already be hanging.

This is a republic, with a court system for these kinds of things, you just cant get a bunch of people together and democratically say hes guilty without trial, thats not how our system works.

Yea, hes probably guilty as all hell, but until he has his day in court, hes innocent.

Did I ever say I don't want to him to have his day in court?

Have his court date...in this case...the outcome is already known. Eye witnesses of civilians and police officers. Tons of evidence from his house and online postings. And I am thinking he will willingly confess to everything with pride because he is nuts.


No one is saying not to use the system and dot every i and cross every t...but OP is just trolling because he knows this will be controversial for lots of S&F for him.

This is my last post in this silly thread...I won't participate in promoting attention seeking like this.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by MisterCrowley

 

I wouldn't call him a victim.

But I don't think he was sane.
Even remotely. You can read his alledged posts here, and look at some of the comments he has made.. The guy just completely had no grip on reality.. And in retrospect, I had seen about three of his threads from the past and generally decided to not post in them.. because he just isn't even coherent in his thoughts.

I won't feel sorry for him, but I think it would be wrong to execute him if he is proven mentally insane.

You seem to be yet another person who is assuming he is guilty. This isn't an issue where his degree of guilt needs to be determined, have you seen any evidence other than stories proving he did these killings? Did they perform a test on his hand to see if he'd fired a gun recently? This is not high tech stuff, that should have been priority one, prove the guy shot a gun. Have we been given the results of any such test?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Have his court date...in this case...the outcome is already known. Eye witnesses of civilians and police officers. Tons of evidence from his house and online postings. And I am thinking he will willingly confess to everything with pride because he is nuts.

How many eyewitnesses identified him personally as opposed to "guy in a black hoodie"? How many police officers witnessed this event? What evidence did they get from his house tying him to these murders? You think the online posts and videos attributed to him are somehow evidence of his guilt? How long would he have to go without confessing for you to reverse your prediction and admit it was wrong?

Different interview than I saw last night. Go to the 3:15 mark and listen to what he says... I am still trying to find another video, the one I saw last night.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by MisterCrowley
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

Jared was not thinking straight. He is the victim of a messed up America. Why would you put to death someone that did not even know what they were doing? Someone with the mind of a child. Everyone knew Jared needed help.. Then when he snaps they act so shocked..

You know how he was thinking now? Did the truth fairy tell you or was it a gypsy fortune teller? How did you come by all this detailed information about him? If he was responsible for this, and you knew all this before the shooting, why didn't you try to prevent it?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Totally agree it's turning into a freak show.

It's nonsense.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


"Did I ever say I don't want to him to have his day in court?"

No you didnt, and I wont say you did.

What you did say. however. is that "he is already guilty in your mind"/and that is fine and dandy ,as long as that kind of thinking is not in the jurors box.

You dont have all the details, and until one does, they are not in the position to determine his guilt. But thank god we have our rights, to protect us from such.

Thats the point I am making.

I dont think this is a troll thread, I think its a very eye opening one, people are so quick to judge and hang, that they forget the very rules they themselves wish to live by. The same rules they feel so "honorable" about, get thrown right out the window when it comes to someone elses rights. Its wrong, in everyway possible.

Originally posted by alpha chino
Different interview than I saw last night. Go to the 3:15 mark and listen to what he says... I am still trying to find another video, the one I saw last night.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 12-1-2011 by alpha chino because: (no reason given)

Guy in a black hoodie did the shooting, this witness was wearing a black hoodie, it must be him!

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

really? I dont see any of that in his post.

What I see is.. "A man is innocent until proven guilty".
I saw nothing of that other stuff you mentioned.

I think a couple members in here need to re-read the post and read it without a personal bias.

its in plain english.

I never said he "said that" - I said it's the topic he's dancing around (avoiding).

In order for this JLL guy to be innocent, he needs to be either:

A) innocent by reason of insanity

OR

B) the patsy of a conspiracy theory

You know this, I know this, everyone knows this. There has simply been no evidence provided by anyone that "B" is in fact the case. The "A" case could perhaps include an MKULTRA type scenario but in the end that means the same thing: innocent by reason of insanity.

Maybe you are the one who should brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Technically if we were screened, those of us who refuse to assume things about this guy and believe him to be innocent in the absence of evidence; would be primary juror selections.

The Court system typically throws out jurors who already made their mind up about someone's guilt. It is a disqualification.

Originally posted by MisterCrowley
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

Jared was not thinking straight. He is the victim of a messed up America. Why would you put to death someone that did not even know what they were doing? Someone with the mind of a child. Everyone knew Jared needed help.. Then when he snaps they act so shocked..

When the hell DID I EVER SAY I thought he should be put to death? Are you sure you are responding to the right post?

Mods please just give the op 1000 ATS points and close the thread. This is one of the most rediculous attempts at trolling I have ever seen. And from a member who sometimes makes very good posts.

To the OP: shame on you for even thinking about making this thread. How many people have to whitness a crime to validate it in your mind? Do we not give credence to anything that happened before the advent of cameras and video recorders now? What should of happened was someone should have put a hole in this dudes head as he did giffords'. The legal system here is a goddamn joke. And for this guy to waste taxpayers dollars, yours and my dollars, is a complete waste. Or was your OP complete sarcasm? I'm kind of hoping it was. Pipe dreams I'm afraid. I guess someone had to defend a complete wacko who goes into public and starts putting rounds in everyone he sees. There's a difference in what's wright and wrong in a legal sense and a difference in what's wrong in a moral sence. Looks like morals have been missing in America for a long time now.

MOTF!


Edit: won't be posting in this thread anymore. Of it's that serious pm me. Otherwise it's cold and I'm getting away from the bridge.