To all the people who want to ban guns.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I am pretty sure the PTB hate gun control more than the conservative gun lobby itself. The PTB want everyone to have a gun, even the crazies, so when enough people get fed up with all the manchurian candidate assinations the people will come to the government begging for outright bans across the nation.



Some people are so emotionally strapped to their weapons they have lost sight with reality and common sense. As far fetched as my opinion sounds, I can make nothing less of the whole situation! Giving ex-convicts and deranged individuals a gun is like giving a gun to a 13 year old child and hoping he is smart enough to use it wisely.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by mtnshredder

 

Yes america has the highest death toll by guns and knives and to a very large degree it has to do with the ultra-liberal gun laws in the southern and western usa. Mexican cartels, MS-13, italian/russian/chineese mafia, blacks, aryan bortherhood, etc can LEGALLY purchase them there and then sell them in the black market in many urban enviroments.

Wow! You're so incredibly misinformed I had to read your post twice to convince myself that you actually said what I thought you said...

First, the vast majority of violence you're talking about is the result of organized gangs. There isn't a law in existence that will stop them from getting their weapons, be it guns, knives, or sharpened spoons. Nothing is going to stop them, so once again, it's not the weapons or the laws that are the cause of that violence, it's the people.

Second, everywhere there are "ultra-liberal" gun laws, there is LESS violent crime. It has been said a thousand times, with statistical proof to back it up, but people of your ilk choose to dismiss it outright, just because.

Third, your list of offenders is just bizarre. Get your facts straight. "Aryan brotherhood"? They may be evil, but they don't commonly go around shooting people. "Mexican cartels"? I don't know if anyone's told you, but Mexico isn't part of the USA. And BTW, Mexico has very strict gun laws too. Works great for them, doesn't it? "Blacks"?? Really, BLACKS?? You actually think black Americans are running around shooting guns all the time? Maybe you belong in the aryan brotherhood. Yes, SOME blacks are involved in violent crime, but that goes back to the gangs. Mafia? That's a joke, right? The murders committed by them is a mere blip on the radar, relatively speaking, and you're surely not going to tell me that stricter gun laws will disarm them.

And all this you blame on "ultra-liberal gun laws in the southern and western usa". As far as the gangs that you choose to use as examples of perpetrators of these violent acts, The biggest and the worst of them are in CALIFORNIA! You know that state with the TOUGHEST GUN LAWS IN THE COUNTRY? Other high crime rate cities - Chicago, New York, Miami...you name it, they all, every one, have some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, and the highest number of organized gangs. Let's see, now why would armed gangs want to live in the states where no one else is allowed to be armed? And despite your claim that they can LEGALLY buy guns, no, they can't. If they're convicted criminals, they can't buy guns, period. Besides, as I stated, the vast majority of them are in the states with the strictest gun laws, so even if they were NEVER convicted of a crime, they wouldn't be able to get them, at least not easily, and certainly not on the scale that you're suggesting.

Of course you'll just dismiss these actual facts, because as proven already, you make up your own.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by wayno

 

You are spreading misinformation bro. Canada is not gunless by a long shot. In my province it is still legal to own a handgun, even an"assault rifle". Maybe in the province you live in, it is all koombuya and there are no guns etc, but it is not a canada wide thing by a long shot.

edit on Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:31:16 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

I believe you stated somewhere you are from the Maritimes. I have to admit I've never been there. I didn't realize different provinces are so different. I am from Ontario but want to get out east for a visit and soak up the laid back ambiance I've heard about. Is gun violence an issue out there? I've never heard anything about problems there.

This issue definitely goes beyond guns. It has a lot to do with the culture. Generally speaking, people in Canada are a little less concerned about material stuff than those south of the border; thus less crime. Unfortunately we still have stupid drug laws which contribute to American style gangs in Toronto other big cities.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about, specifically the comment about giving a 13 year old a gun and expecting him/her to use it responsibly. I had a .22 caliber rifle when I was 9 and owned a 12 gauge shotgun by the time I was 11. Giving a kid a firearm and teaching them to it properly is a great way to teach responsibility and accountability at a young age. I was fully aware of the train of consequences I'd face if I misused my guns, period. The first consequence being the ass whipping my father, uncles and grandfathers would dole out. My 11 year old owns a shotgun, which he uses with the utmost respect and in a responsible manner. If more kids hunted, trapped and fished, instead of playing XBox in a dark room all day, this world would be a better place. The idea of my gun ownership rights being trampled on isn't just about removing my ability to kill people at a distance. It's more about some of you being so willing to decide what type of lifestyle is best for me and my family. We hunt. We eat what we kill. I'm a poor white mountain man with a large family. I can kill 150lbs of meat for less than a dollar. I don't infringe on others rights. I don't run around protesting and raising hell about what other people do, as long as I'm left alone.

reply to post by mountain40


I don't think there is a single person anywhere who would want to take your gun away from you where you live. So probably you should leave this thread as it has nothing to do with you.

Just kidding. But really it has nothing to do with you. The problem with guns, IMHO, is in the cities and only there. You can enjoy your lifestyle just as it is. I don't know who you think is trying to take that away from you? Certainly not me.

reply to post by wayno

Doesn't matter. If we do not stand up for those in the cities so that they can keep their 2nd amendment rights, they may lose them. Then the precedent is set. The second amendment, all rights for that matter, is universal; it applies everywhere in the US.

reply to post by wayno


Well I been here 2 years, haven't heard of a single shooting so far. The only gun related incident I heard of so far was some fool robbing a pharmacy with a shotgun.

Originally posted by Lilitu
I don't want to see guns banned per say. The 2nd amendment affords us the right to keep and bear arms. We can own and carry them but please note the 2nd amendment stops there. It does not give you the right to discharge a weapon.

Ok, I talked to both my attorney friends last night. Neither of them had ever had or heard of a case where the right to bear arms was questioned in the manner you're presenting. They both basically told me the same thing I told you. That the terminology of "bear arms" had been defined by many yrs of precedence, that it was a given that "bear" by definition meant you could use an arm as it's intended purpose. Hope that helps.

Taken from an online article on a Norwegian news source, (2007):

5,6 murders per 100 000 citizens in U.S.A.

0.81 murders per 100 000 citizens in Norway.

In Norway, having a firearm for anything but sports or hunting is illegal unless you are in the army. Norwegian police does not bear firearms either. It's illegal to carry guns in public.

Originally posted by AntiNWO
First, the vast majority of violence you're talking about is the result of organized gangs. There isn't a law in existence that will stop them from getting their weapons, be it guns, knives, or sharpened spoons. Nothing is going to stop them, so once again, it's not the weapons or the laws that are the cause of that violence, it's the people.

Actually the laws ARE the problem! Why does america have the highest crime rate among all nations???

Geez...thats a hard one to answer. You might say its a battle of cultures but there many other multi-cultural nations throughout the world that DO NOT have such violent crime figures...australia, canada, new zealand, uk, malaysia, etc. How come gangs in those countries don't extort and kill each other on the same frequency?

Originally posted by AntiNWO
Second, everywhere there are "ultra-liberal" gun laws, there is LESS violent crime. It has been said a thousand times, with statistical proof to back it up, but people of your ilk choose to dismiss it outright, just because.

Third, your list of offenders is just bizarre. Get your facts straight. "Aryan brotherhood"? They may be evil, but they don't commonly go around shooting people. "Mexican cartels"? I don't know if anyone's told you, but Mexico isn't part of the USA. And BTW, Mexico has very strict gun laws too. Works great for them, doesn't it? "Blacks"?? Really, BLACKS?? You actually think black Americans are running around shooting guns all the time? Maybe you belong in the aryan brotherhood. Yes, SOME blacks are involved in violent crime, but that goes back to the gangs. Mafia? That's a joke, right? The murders committed by them is a mere blip on the radar, relatively speaking, and you're surely not going to tell me that stricter gun laws will disarm them.

You don't realise what ALL those gangs have in common? Hint: They buy the guns from those ultra-liberal gun law states and then bring them in to the cities to sell in the black market where gun laws are much stricter especially in the northeastern usa.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out organised crime syndicates will look for guns where they are easier to obtain, now should it? Want to stop this? Only one registered gun per person regardless what state they are from...meaning you can't buy more than one gun per person and each gun registered on a federal database.

Originally posted by AntiNWO
Of course you'll just dismiss these actual facts, because as proven already, you make up your own.

I am not dismissing the statistics, all I am doing is correlating the data with reality.

Originally posted by mountain40
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about, specifically the comment about giving a 13 year old a gun and expecting him/her to use it responsibly. I had a .22 caliber rifle when I was 9 and owned a 12 gauge shotgun by the time I was 11. Giving a kid a firearm and teaching them to it properly is a great way to teach responsibility and accountability at a young age. I was fully aware of the train of consequences I'd face if I misused my guns, period. The first consequence being the ass whipping my father, uncles and grandfathers would dole out. My 11 year old owns a shotgun, which he uses with the utmost respect and in a responsible manner. If more kids hunted, trapped and fished, instead of playing XBox in a dark room all day, this world would be a better place. The idea of my gun ownership rights being trampled on isn't just about removing my ability to kill people at a distance. It's more about some of you being so willing to decide what type of lifestyle is best for me and my family. We hunt. We eat what we kill. I'm a poor white mountain man with a large family. I can kill 150lbs of meat for less than a dollar. I don't infringe on others rights. I don't run around protesting and raising hell about what other people do, as long as I'm left alone.

Well your not really giving me any respect if your irresponsible enough to mention its ok to give adolescent kids a gun so they can learn how to shoot. A gun is not a golf club or a tennis racket to swing away and HOPE no one gets injured.

People die from accidental misfires each and every year. Get your facts straight!

reply to post by Rocky Black


Well if there were no guns in the beginning, meaning no commercialisation of weapons in the US and such there will be much fewer deaths related to guns. Using safety as an argument for commercial gain is a very smart argument. But if there were no guns there would not be the same amount of deaths related to guns. More guns relates to an increased usage of guns which in turn relates to more deats involving guns. Look at countries in Europe where there is hard to get hand of a weapon unless u got a license, deaths related to guns are in that case much fewer.

Another aspect being the columbine event that might not have started in the beginning. The easy access to guns is the problem here. When people already have guns laws might be a bit too late....

reply to post by Rocky Black


America has one of the highest crime rates of the world, I don't say that it is because of the guns, but it is proven that saying a gun makes people more angry and scared, so if you are impulsive you will have a bigger chance to kill people.

There is no purpose to owning a gun, except if you are scared of other people, you might say: "But it is my right to own one, it's to protect myself", and if I ask: "of what? Are you afraid of the other gun owners? Is it because you don't trust people anymore?" In the first case that can be solved, in the second case you have a social problem, if you don't trust them, they won't trust you, thomas theorema.
I don't understand the problem, here owning a gun without a license is banned for a long time, and, ok, we still have crime, but murder is very rare. And that's part because we can't own guns, if all of us had guns, there would be a lot more unsafe feelings, and people would feel forced to owning a gun, because "that crazy kid has a gun, and I must defend myself 'cause you never know", and one day that kid will look a bit weird and someone will shoot him, perhaps a bit exaggerating, but you know what I mean.

Owning a gun means trouble, unless you use it for hunting or anything, but would having to own a license be so bad in that case?

reply to post by Naradia


Only people that don't understand guns are scared of them, they are just gunophobes. Where I grew up in NY, every house had at least one gun, most had more than 10. Guess what? In the whole 21 years I lived there, I can't recall a single unjustified shooting. I wonder why? Because we were all shooting guns by the time we were 10 probably. We learned young the damage a gun could do. The first real gun I got to shoot was a shotgun way too powerful for me. My pops and uncle thought it would be a good idea to show me the power of a gun, loaded up one cartridge and told me to shoot it. I wish I got it on camera, would have sent it into funniest home videos and probably won lol. I respected guns then, because that gun knocked me back like 5 feet and put me on my ass. After that, I got my own first gun, a .22.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

For what it's worth I learned to shoot a gun well before I swung a tennis racquet or a golf club. My elementary school, (6 th grade) had a NRA training course for two days. Even though I knew how to shoot already, I still learned things I use to this day. I was also taught the value of life from my parents, between the two, I don't go around blowing people away.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by knylon90
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

It's part of the American way of thinking to happily and willingly trade personal safety for personal freedom.

However, the fact that Americans have an alarming propensity towards shooting each other is also a part of the debate. Keep your laws...in fact keep your guns out of Canada...but just because we are different doesn't make us wrong as the OP suggests.

That is fine,I am glad you are not having to deal with a lot of shooting.But there was one very big one not long ago in Canada.Unfortunately.

However your nation has a low population density.People are more spread out to reduce the need for such protection.Fewer people in conflicting contact with each other.

In America the biggest crime problems occur the most in the largest cities.New York,Chicago and Los Angeles have over 3.5 million people in them.With high population density thrown in.You have a recipe for a lot of crime to ferment.

Is it a coincidence that the highest gun murder rates occur in the largest cities and states,by population.That have very strict gun control laws on the books? They are also almost by default run by Democrats,who have a long running tradition of being anti-gun.

States with highest murder rates.

Washington D.C.
New York
Illinois
Massachusetts
California
Pennsylvania

All run by Democrats,all are anti-gun.But has whopping crime waves anyway.

But much lower in the others states that allow or even REQUIRE having a gun? Some states allow Concealed Gun laws.The level of crime is lower and so are handgun murders.

Originally posted by Naradia

I don't understand the problem, here owning a gun without a license is banned for a long time, and, ok, we still have crime, but murder is very rare.

That's one of the differences between the US and much of western Europe. There are nearly 6,000 homicides yearly in the US that do not even involve the use of a firearm. Its about a third of the total, and if you ban guns, its a number that will certainly jump significantly. You might even end up with more homicides, not less, as the criminal element might feel emboldened to run rampant in the absence of an armed citizenry. It goes back to what we've been saying all along. They'll find a way, whether guns are available or not.

Guns aren't the motivating factor in homicides, folks. There are huge geographic areas of the United States that prove that pretty conclusively, with high rates of firearm ownership and rates of violent crime and homicide that are approaching the low levels of western Europe. For the most part, its a city problem. One look at the homicide rates of places like DC, Baltimore, New Orleans and Chicago should be all the proof anyone needs. When some of those are running homicide rates 10 times the national average, its making the situation in the rest of the country look a lot worse than it actually is.

The real problem is economic. The reason the cities have such huge homicide rates compared to the suburbs and the rural areas is because there are no opportunities in many of our inner cities, there's no way out for many of the residents, and as a result, people get desperate and turn to crime. Until that problem is solved, the crime problem will remain.

Has anyone stopped long enough to evaluate the cultural diversity that America has vs other countries? This needs to be figured into the equation. America has probably the most diverse culture in the world. We've accepted every culture, race and religion on the planet, for better or for worse, but yet were judged collectively when differences rear their ugly head. The growth rate here of various nationalities is probably higher than any other country, at least I can't think of one that's higher. As bad as it is, it could be much worse, considering. This is not the same America of yesterday, but we are who we are and proud of it, respect that and don't expect us to change to meet your vision of who you think we should be and the rules we should follow. We've done pretty good on our own for a young country for many of yr. Is there any country that thinks they could have done better in adaptation and acceptance of diversity as we have? Honest question not one of ego.

In Canada, they have a gun register law and it's hard to get weapons. Does that stop killing? Nope! In Canada they stab the crap out of each other with knives lol. I am serious. If people are going to kill, they will kill, gun or no gun, so it must be some other agenda of the government to take them away then.

This guy knew it.

Originally posted by sunsettommy

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
However your nation has a low population density.People are more spread out to reduce the need for such protection.Fewer people in conflicting contact with each other.

Naw...that's not the answer. We have plenty of cities and you can work off murders per capita, compare to US cities with equal population or equal density and you still won't come up with similar numbers.

Different culture, different mindset.