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Hey China, why are you so worked up about an Independant Taiwan

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posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 01:17 AM
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The subject tile says it all. So for all of the rabid China will take back theier territory, please tell me why you guys are so worked up about it? I mean its pretty clear they do not want to part of your communist paradise.




posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 01:23 AM
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communist or not is not the problem. By the way, China is now more than 50% capitalist and less than 50% socialist.

It is not matter of political system; it is territorial integrity of China as sovereign nation.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
communist or not is not the problem. By the way, China is now more than 50% capitalist and less than 50% socialist.

It is not matter of political system; it is territorial integrity of China as sovereign nation.


Going by territorial integrity, how do you explain Tibet? Bottom line, they do not want to be part of your system. My only regret is that the US won't recognize them (YET) as an independant country. Its a political question though. You guys can talk about capitalism all you want, but that still does not make you a free society.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 01:55 AM
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"My only regret is that the US won't recognize them (YET)"

I also like US recognizes Taiwan tomorrow. That will start the moves.

Do you think US will recognize Taiwan later, when China is much stronger than today?



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
I also like US recognizes Taiwan tomorrow. That will start the moves.
Do you think US will recognize Taiwan later, when China is much stronger than today?


You never know what will occur in world events. However yes at somepoint one of two things will happen:
Communism in China will fail and revert back to a normal system. You may then stand a chance at re-unification
The US will recognize Taiwan as a legitimate country in its own right.

Let me ask you this. What "moves" would china take if the US recognized them say tommorow? Attack? Invade? please. while you make quote your parties "line" about Taiwan and be willing to dance on thier graves if it came to that, I doubt your leaders would want to destroy the economic benifits that the country has. Your answers seem almost robotic as if you were being monitored to ensure your loyalty to the state. Its kind of funny. Every thread that I have ever participated in you guys all have the exact same reasons word for word about Taiwan.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
...your communist paradise.



fred since ats is about denying ignorance, could i just ask you to research the difference between communism and socialism. thanks.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by agent

fred since ats is about denying ignorance, could i just ask you to research the difference between communism and socialism. thanks.


I am well aware of the differences are you implying that China is not a communist state?



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:29 AM
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The question is: What would the US do if any state wanted to leave the US? What would England to if London wanted to become their own country? Many in Hawaii want Hawaii out of the US, they are not allowed. What would any country do if a territory wanted to leave the country. Indonesia, Philippines etc etc.. Yes, the govt will fight the forces trying to succeed. It does not matter if communist or not.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:36 AM
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Isnt it best to ask people who live in China if their country is a communist or socialist state?



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 02:50 AM
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"drunk...im not sure who lives in china or not since im not privy to the ip addresses of posters"

there is a difference between political parties and how the country is run.
china is not run per karl marx's Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital.

"Marx's Utopia was based on the goals of economic equity, stability, and security. Basically, he envisioned a society where wealth would be shared equally, where all the factors of production would be controlled collectively, and where all citizens would be protected from the instability of the market economy (the boom and bust cycle).

Modern communism, however, did not live up to Marx's lofty ideals."

per my economics professor many years ago, and i had a hard time finding source material but here goes...


The Father of Communism

so yes, there is socialism but there is no such thing as communism

[edit on 9/7/04 by agent]

[edit on 9/7/04 by agent]



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by JCMinJapan
The question is: What would the US do if any state wanted to leave the US?


I was just in Hawaii and surprised by the signs on Kauai about Hawiian nationalism. However, if one state wanted to leave the union I doubt that there would be anything that could be done about it militarily. I looked over the constitution and there is nothing about how to handle it. No doubt it would be years in the court system. Canada never threatens Quebec when they have their one a decade vote to leave Canada. I see no reason as to why we would go in and level say Texas for wanting to leave. Texas is the state that comes most to mind when I think of a state leaving, but I was surprised by the lack of "Free Texas" sites I found. Other than Hawaii:
www.rense.com...
www.counterpunch.org...
www.alternet.org...

And this was too funny to pass up:


10 Most Bitchin' Reasons California Becoming Its Own Country Would Be So Cool
Four words: Vice President Nancy Pelosi.
State and local legislatures already extremely comfortable setting foreign policy.
Our own armed services. Eastwood, Schwarzenegger, Stallone or Willis in charge?
Opening weekend foreign distribution movie figures go way up.

You want a war. I got a war for you. We invade Florida for orange juice supremacy. Then take on Wisconsin for that whole cheese deal. Then France. For the wine? No, for the hell of it. Because now it's in our blood.

Our own intelligence agency. Imagine the allure of an assignment to one of our undercover cells in Reno.

Can extradite and convict Enron CEO, Ken Lay, at our own war crimes tribunal.

We charge a fee on every foreigner trying out as a contestant on "Wheel of Fortune." Call it a stupid tax.

Bechtel (a California based concern) builds a Great Wall right down the middle of Lake Tahoe. Screw the corner. Straight line. North to south.

We outlaw Fox News as a foreign propaganda tool.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by agent
"drunk...im not sure who lives in china or not since im not privy to the ip addresses of posters"

[edit on 9/7/04 by agent]

[edit on 9/7/04 by agent]


Good point i forgot to mention that we should wait and see what people from China say about this, yes everyone is entitled to speak but personally i would believe an answer from a member living in China cos that answer would be first hand



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 03:27 AM
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i was based in HK for a while and travelled to shenzen and zhuhai quite a bit but i doubt lan kwai fong tonight will be the same as the rest of china.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 03:29 AM
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hehe LKF is the tourist spot for drunkards

Anyway back on topic.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by drunk
Good point i forgot to mention that we should wait and see what people from China say about this, yes everyone is entitled to speak but personally i would believe an answer from a member living in China cos that answer would be first hand


Which China? The Free one or the other



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 08:42 AM
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FredT, I bet you never visit China and you are still living in your indoctrinated world from years ago. You are so far away from reality.

"Which China? The Free one or the other "

The China that US recognizes, if you do not know which one, ask Bush, the Wiser Man.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
FredT, I bet you never visit China and you are still living in your indoctrinated world from years ago. You are so far away from reality.
The China that US recognizes, if you do not know which one, ask Bush, the Wiser Man.


Actuall I have been to both China and Taiwan. As well as Thailand and Hon Kong in 1977. The Taiwan and China trip were in 1998. Growing up I lived in Yugoslavia from 1976 to 1979 during a construction job my father had. I have traveled the globe as it were and have been exposed to many cultures and people.
Hmmmm talk about the pot calling the kettle black with the indoctrination" comment. From Mao's little red book to your Cultural Revolution et al. you would seem to tow the party line when it comes to your propaganda. Please your killig me with the "from the heart" statement. Did you read that on a poster?
In as far as which China to recognize, Taiwan seems to be correct one. Its high time the rest of the world (US included) stop Kowtowing to your ranting on the issue and fully recognize that Taiwan is a fully independant country with the privlages it deserves.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 09:14 AM
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FredT, glad you have moved around the world. But apparently your past impression is hampering you to see the current reality. If you go to China you will see big difference almost every year.

"Its high time the rest of the world (US included) stop Kowtowing to your ranting on the issue and fully recognize that Taiwan is a fully independant country with the privlages it deserves. "

In fact, as I said, I wish US would recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation today. Only them, the world will once again understand the will and power of Chinese people.

There is not party line I need to follow. But there is Chinese interest that I will fight and even die for. I bet you will do the same, if Texas wants to be independent. You sure remember what Lincoln did 150 years ago.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
In fact, as I said, I wish US would recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation today. Only them, the world will once again understand the will and power of Chinese people.

Yes TAIWAN WILL SUBMIT TO OUR WILL OR FACE OUR WRATH. Wow you guys like to sabre rattle. The will and power of the Chinese people. More like the force and coertion of your represive government. As I mention before you guys all read from the same propaganda manual. You have the same arguments and reasons. Look at my responce to that question above.

You sound like you are reading from some Central Committie Propaganda Manual. The will and power of the Chinese people, from our hearts. seriously having lived in a communist country (Yugoslavia under Tito) I have seen your style propaganda machine in action. Its only a matter of time before you wake up and smell the democracy.



posted on Jul, 9 2004 @ 10:35 AM
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FredT

Taiwan has declared its self independent from China. China says no way and will not allow it.

Ok........Say Alaska votes to become independent from the USA.....not going to be allowed.

What is the difference.....?





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