Taiwan people should not fear China. Actually, I hope u guys come to release Chinese people, since chicom change their appearing.
Nothing better than a free country, dont say 1.3 billion people, Chicom rape us for 50 yrs, dont be so naive. American cannot save us, only ourselves. They use tank to put down a fire, then they want to use money to put down another one.

i love china'cause i'm a chinese. so, we should get rid of that mad party. Is it mad?

"so, we should get rid of that mad party. Is it mad? "

That can only be determined by the all Chinese people. One sure way to topple it is: Allow Taiwan Independence and Do nothing.

Originally posted by zcheng
"When did the Taiwanese ever threatened the Chinese on the Mainland? Do they even have the military capabilities? "

Tell me why Lincoln start American Civil War? In the same way, China will tolerate Taiwan independence. Let alone, Taiwan will be the front arrow of US and Japan against China.

you forgot russia to. its just a maybe though. i heard they have more than half of their ICBMs pointed at china.

Originally posted by zcheng
If China followed the same path of Soviet, Taiwan likely would celebrate its 10's Anniversary of independence. Of course it is in your daydreaming.

China is following the same path. The use of force, tortute, repression to controll her poulation and controll territiory. IE Tibet, trying for Taiwan etc. There are alot of countries with "stan" at the end that could identify with the tactics your country uses. Look what happened to the CCCP followign the fall of communism. Hmmmmmm let me see they broke into smaller parts.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Originally posted by zcheng
GHuang, I can understand the feeling of Taiwanese, but can you also understand the feeling of 1.3 Billion Chinese?

The Tawianese beg to differ. Bottom line, read the post above, learn from it. Taiwan is its own people with thier own identity. Despite what the Propaganda Department is telling to feel (maybe you and I can talk freely when the guy with gun to your back take a bathroom break) unification will never happen with your current system of government. The gerneral that lead the war against the communists of your country, has been lying in state untill his body can be returned to the Mainland. However, they have decided to bury him in Taiwan. This alone shows the resolution of the Taiwanese people. By your logic, Brittan has claim to America

Originally posted by zcheng
Fair enough, Taiwan is strategic interest of China, if needed, All options are open. The fact is war between US and China, both will be destroyed, and I believe US will value more the whole World than Taiwan.

Thje fact that you seems so willing to die makes me feel that we should hasten our missile defence to prevent madmen like you from ever being able to loft missiles in our direction. I weep for the future of CHina if you callus attitude is indicative of your people

Originally posted by zcheng
"When did the Taiwanese ever threatened the Chinese on the Mainland? Do they even have the military capabilities? "Tell me why Lincoln start American Civil War? In the same way, China will tolerate Taiwan independence. Let alone, Taiwan will be the front arrow of US and Japan against China.

Where is the threat really, you have stressed time and time again the potency of your military, the willingness to use nukes, the willing to take back taiwan even if you have to burn it down to bedrock. Ho is Taiwan a threat to you. Is it becaue it is succesfull?

And seriously dude, you need to get better historical textbooks. The ones you propaganda department have issued are really out of date. Lincoln did not start the civil war. If you want to debate the pros and cons about the US civil war we can in another thread. Comparing the Taiwan Issue with the Civil war is like comparing dogs and cats.

i sugest that china thinks long and hard about what it plans to do if tiawan does make this move. they need to think about the long run.

invade tiawan = chinese military will be totally destroyed by the US military

Nuclear back blitzkrieg into tiawan = 1.3 billion chinese killed by a retalitory strike by the USAF and china herself does not exist anymore. not to mention whats left of china's military on tiawan would be destroyed by the US military.

"Operation Tiger" sinaerio = us submarines wait in the water way between china and tiawan and sink any chinease military vessle as they try to begin the landing.

an invasion by the US and japan(long shot though) = china now fights a war on 2 fronts.

an invasion by the US, Japan, and Russia. = china had better do her streches casue shes about to take it up the ass. big time



so IMO china had better think long and hard.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
so IMO china had better think long and hard.

KrazyIvan,
I really think that this is just your mid year sabre rattling by China. Your correct in your scenarios except for one thing they do have 24 nukes that could do some damage to the US, but we would burn them down to the bedrock in the process. Bring Russian in aginst China and they go from a mega longshot to DOA

i was saying that the US and japan invading would be a logn shot. you think that the US youd in vade the most populos country on the face of the earth while its fighting 2 other war at the same time.

but the one with russia seems more plausible. lots of bad blood between russia and china

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
i was saying that the US and japan invading would be a logn shot. you think that the US youd in vade the most populos country on the face of the earth while its fighting 2 other war at the same time. but the one with russia seems more plausible. lots of bad blood between russia and china

I do not mean invade. There is simply no way to drive through that country. Even with Russia invading and fighting a 2 front war they would be hard pressed to capture China. Better to hold in place and destroy infrastructure from the air.

FredT, you are so funny to have so much confidence in US force.
Everyday, I see US soldier died in vain in Iraq and Afganistan, and they are using only AK-47 and RPGs.

US now has to scrap the very bottom to get about 5000 more reluctant soldiers. And you still want war with China . I know in your eyes, China do not even have AK-47 and RPGs. Luckily, even Bush is smarter than you. There is no point for argument. Let's wait and see.

Originally posted by zcheng
FredT, you are so funny to have so much confidence in US force.
Everyday, I see US soldier died in vain in Iraq and Afganistan, and they are using only AK-47 and RPGs.

Dude you are the one doing the war mongering we were discussing scenarios. You are the one with the Taiwan at all cost if they declare independance we will make them pay talk. Your the one advocating an invasion of Taiwan. Yes we loose soilders in Iraq and Afganistan everyday. Yes we would lose more soilders if you commenced a war or aggression against Taiwan. As I seem to recall the People Liberation Army "Or is it the People Repression Army" No wait it is the It is the Peoples Army that Kills Innocent People (PAKIP) ) is similarly equipped. Yes yes you have tank and planes etc. as well But your tactics and doctrine are simply not going to allow you to invade taiwan. SO you have 2 choices:
Destroy the island.
Learn to live with it.

Which of these two guy are you going to be.

zcheng,
I have been trolling the boards for awhile now and it seems that you are completely deluded in your thoughts.

You say Taiwan should be part of China, comparing it to a US state trying to become independent. Yet your whole understanding of Taiwan independence is lacking. Taiwan has been separate from the PRC since the 50's and only after a long hard struggle has been able in the last decade to finally hold democratic elections. This scares China because the Communist government there is afraid of the high success Taiwan is having economically and politically.

You've said before that you receive both American news and Chinese news and you claim that propoganda is evident in the American news. Let me ask you then, why the Chinese government censors any type of foreign news? This is most evident in the censorship of the internet. And just so you know the extent of the censorship in China, a computer game made by a Swedish company was recently banned because of its supposedly "inaccurate" description of Chinese history.

Imagine if you lived in China, all you knew about the world was what the government was telling you. Think of that and tell me if Chinese communism is better. I can totally see why Taiwan is fighting so hard for freedom from the oppressive and bullying of China. The US realises this and is willing, as someone else previously posted, to call China's bluff. China is holding a crap hand.

zcheng,

see my other point in another thread. the one we argued on earlier, china warns rice.

I have already stated your continued bringing upof the civil war.

if a state wanted independance, then they should have it.

If the people of Taiwan want to be independant, then they should remain so. China should have no say in the matter. if you want a say in the matter, then let those 1.3 billion chinese move to taiwan, good luck.

But its thier island. i dont care if you do not like it or not, its not the say of the chinese to determine the fate of taiwan. definitely not by force.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
If the people of Taiwan want to be independant, then they should remain so. China should have no say in the matter. if you want a say in the matter, then let those 1.3 billion chinese move to taiwan, good luck.
But its thier island. i dont care if you do not like it or not, its not the say of the chinese to determine the fate of taiwan. definitely not by force.

Skadi, that was well put. But much like the government that rules over him he clearly belives that freedom and self determination play no part in things. ZCheng, why do you think the people of Taiwan resist your gracious invitations to re-unite?

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
. lots of bad blood between russia and china

Russia and China are very close allies i dont know where where you got this from.

Originally posted by drunk
lots of bad blood between russia and china

Russia and China are very close allies i dont know where where you got this from.

That has not always been the case they have fought several border skimishes over the years. The current relationship is good, but I would not charecterize them as staunch friends. Historicaly there is bad blood, but none of it recently. Both countries have loooooong memories.

Countries do not have friends they have mutual interests

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by drunk
lots of bad blood between russia and china

Russia and China are very close allies i dont know where where you got this from.

That has not always been the case they have fought several border skimishes over the years.




Border skirmishes so does this make them enemies?not really i would of thought. As you say the relationship is improving getting stronger.

Originally posted by drunk
Border skirmishes so does this make them enemies?not really i would of thought. As you say the relationship is improving getting stronger.

Sorry I over simplfied it. They also had a falling out during the cold war over communism. Communist China challenged the Soviet's leadership and accused them of betraying Communism. SO had that whole issue as well. The collective memories of both sides as I said before is pretty long. Ask your Russian on the street what he thinks of Germans and you would think we were still fighting WWII.